The Netherlands pushes its southeastern border east to the city belt around the Rhine

]The map shows the historical distribution of the Dutch language in the border area; one should note, however, that a distinct Dutch language only started to develop after the 17th century, before that it was merely a German dialect.
it pretty much was hollands (the dialect spoken in the western part of the netherlands) that developed into dutch
 
Here is a little piece in my original local Mundart that I found online; can you Dutch guys tell me if and how well you understand it?

meidericher-buergerverein.de said:
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Os Wap[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]ediir

[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]En Haan mét schööne bonte Fääre on mét en Kam, rojer as Füür[/FONT]​
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]on ane Béén twéj groote Spoore, dat ös dat "Meierksche Wapediir"[/FONT]​
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Van morges frug bös éne Nach stéét hai én Meierk op de Wach.[/FONT]​
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]On kömp os ömes mol te noo, ék säg et énk, dan ös hai do.[/FONT]​
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Érs kraijt hai bloos, ma ni te knap, on bad dat néks, dan gäw et wat.[/FONT]​
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Dan wöd et Tid, gau avtehaue, sös wöd me van öm fiis verhaue.[/FONT]​
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Ma kömp ömes as guje Frönd, hai öm onder sin Fittich nämp,[/FONT]​
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]dä kan hiir lääwe, onschéniirt, dä Haan gäw Ach, dat néks passiirt, [/FONT]​
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]domét mäk hai os Vaaderstadt so liiw- on lääwenswéért,[/FONT]​
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]dröm wöd hai ok van Jong on Old geloow, geliiw, geéért.[/FONT]​
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Wéj wééte wat wéj aan öm häwe:[/FONT]​
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]"Dä Meierksche Haan, hooch sal hai lääwe!"[/FONT]​
 
was pretty understandable, although the way it was written was somewhat strange to me, but once i vocalised it, it was quite understandable.
 
Easy. Just invent a way for the Princes of Orange to inherit the United Duchies of Jülich-Cleves-Berg and you're practically there.
Most of the area (especially around Cleves) was historically Dutch-speaking, by the way.

Is it possible to let the Habsburgs inherit the United Duchies of Julich-Cleves-Berg by marriage for instance of Don Juan of Austria or perhaps a second Marriage of Charles V after the treaty of Venlo?Maybe Amalia of Cleve could be the second wife of Charles V and create a new branch of the House of Habsburg.
If this branch would inherit the Low Countries instead of Philip II the Dutch Revolt would butterfly away.
 
was pretty understandable, although the way it was written was somewhat strange to me, but once i vocalised it, it was quite understandable.
Like Wietze when I read this out loud it's quite understandable.
Pretty much the same here.
Pretty well, although I speak Afrikaans, not Dutch.
Ah, interesting!

I actually wish more people would still speak this particular language, not just a few dozens or maybe hundred people. The main problem is that there are almost no dictionaries or other textbooks for it, so it is slowly disappearing. :(
 
What people speak nowadays and what they spoke some hundred years ago is not necessarily the same. In many countries today many people speak a standardised language that they learn in school and not the traditional dialect. Or they speak something in between, but highly influenced by the standardised language. If areas close to the Netherlands had become part of the Netherlands, they would have become gradually closer to standard Dutch, not to standard German.
 
Still easier to understand then my relatives from Drenthe :D

never been to north-east Groningen i take it? :p

just be happy they speak modern drents, the dialect has softened quite a bit the last 40 years. old style hardcore drents was much much more difficult to understand than the current version

i posted a dialectic map here : https://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showpost.php?p=10039061&postcount=231

Ah, interesting!

I actually wish more people would still speak this particular language, not just a few dozens or maybe hundred people. The main problem is that there are almost no dictionaries or other textbooks for it, so it is slowly disappearing. :(

also the way of writing it down is confusing, gronings and platduuts (what they speak in the emsland) is pretty alike, however if you see it written down they seem very different.
 
What people speak nowadays and what they spoke some hundred years ago is not necessarily the same. In many countries today many people speak a standardised language that they learn in school and not the traditional dialect. Or they speak something in between, but highly influenced by the standardised language. If areas close to the Netherlands had become part of the Netherlands, they would have become gradually closer to standard Dutch, not to standard German.

I agree, both maps, but especially the German one, show the areas which could have ended on the other side of the language border.
Though since it still is within the same dialect continuum it never was a hard border.
 
never been to north-east Groningen i take it? :p

just be happy they speak modern drents, the dialect has softened quite a bit the last 40 years. old style hardcore drents was much much more difficult to understand than the current version

i posted a dialectic map here : https://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showpost.php?p=10039061&postcount=231

Interesting map, Oost-Noord-Brabants is het beste Brabants!

My relatives are in their 60's, so their accent is pretty thick. I have to listen really carefully or ill miss half what they're saying.

There's a lot more dialects up north then in the south. Interesting, I wonder how that happened.
 
Interesting map, Oost-Noord-Brabants is het beste Brabants!

My relatives are in their 60's, so their accent is pretty thick. I have to listen really carefully or ill miss half what they're saying.

There's a lot more dialects up north then in the south. Interesting, I wonder how that happened.

IMHO West-(Noord)-Brabants is the best Brabants, much closer to the dialects of our southern Brabantian brethren.

Well in chronological order Limburgish, Flemish, Brabantian and Hollandic all contributed to the development of standard Dutch.
Roughly speaking Hollandic played a larger role in the standard Dutch of the Netherlands; whereas Brabantian (and Flemish) kept a somewhat larger role in Dutch from Belgium.
 
There's a lot more dialects up north then in the south. Interesting, I wonder how that happened.
Probably there is no good reason. Generaly the difference between different dialects is rather arbitrary. In the north there possibly are more localised groups who want to preserve the status of their dialects, while in the south the groups are more regional.
 
There's a lot more dialects up north then in the south. Interesting, I wonder how that happened.

Probably urbanisation. The unification of Dutch started from Flandres/Brabant and was then shocked into Holland due to the 80 years war, but that still left Flandres/Brabant fairly unified around the cities?
 
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