The Netherlands join the allied powers in ww1

At the end of the 19th century the Dutch gouverment dicided to make the defenses of it most precious colony Indonesia as matter of importance This in the light of the American-Spanish war, a second rate europena power, as the netherlands, was sounded defeated and stripped of it overseas possesions. And the recent Japanese-Chinese war and the further build up of the Japanese navy which was seen as a threat to the balance of power in the far east.
In 1898 a fleet law was accepted by parliament which provided in a fleet of 10 Battleships, 8 cruisers and light support vessels. Further the expansion and modernisation of the naval base Tandionpriok.
After that it took several year suntil finaly the first class was approved, and fully operational. At the drawing board they were state of the art ships, designed which much assisance of British naval engineers. Armour came from Krupp, weaponery from the UK, Germany, and Sweden.
The first class consisted of 4 ships suported by 3 cruisers and torpedo boats. This fleet was operational in1906. Since the batleships were almost obsolete when they entered service due to the British HMS Dreagthnought the commitments to the Naval law of 1898 were subject of heavy debate in parlaiment. Finaly in 1910 a new order was aproved for 5 more battleships. After numerous designs from own ship yards and forregn shipyrds. The German Germania design was chosen.
This class was complete in service in summer of 1914, just a month before the Great War broke out. The Netherlands stayed neutral, which they managed well, untill late 1915. By then it was clear to every one that this jolly war wassn't short. The Dutch general staff and a lot of field officers had a favour for the Entente side. Inpressed as they were by the Prusian military. The politicians and the NAvy how ever fafored the Alied side. The navy as a pratical matter, even the navy had modern heavy units, it could not defend the colonies against Japan and Brittan. The general staff had the same opinion about the field army and faroured there for the Germans.
At this time it became more and more harder to amintain neutrality. Due to its relative modern fleet, both sides, but more the Germans, made overtures to the Dutch gouverment to chose side. For the Germans the fleet of 5 modern Battleships could be a reenforcement wich at that time would tip the balance of power, even if ti was for a few months. The field army wasn't much of a forc, how ever since war broke out, impressive modernisations were implemented and the equipment was drasticlay modernised, most with AMercian purchased weaponary. Even the uniforms were modern, based on the rejected french uniforms. ( they were to simmilar to the german uniforms)
At the start of 1916 a self confidence within Dutch politics took place, a mind set of exploiting the assets it have and bargaining the best deal between to two fighting sides, who were by now in a deadly seemingly endless stand off. Since the behaviuor of the German troops in Belgium, the Alied side was the more favourite and the side who could have the best divident at the long run.
By may 1916 in secret the British prime minister recieved the following, proposal of the Dutch prime minister;
Free use of the Dutch teritories for Alied troops.
Combined operations of the Dutch Field Army and Allied troops on German positions with the aim of ending the war
Combined operations of the Dutch Royal Navy end The Royal Navy
This all under the following terms:
Ceiding of the German Teritory of Cameroun and South West Africa in Africa
Transfering the national borders of Germany and the Netherlands to the East.
Since the British would start their offensive a month later, who would ended the war at the Somme, the proposal was politely rejected. How ever there was serious considerations the Dutch offered there service to the Germans.
In Novemebr the Dutch made their offer again, after much secret negotiating, the terms were accepted.
 
The first series of Dutch Battleships

Dutch Royal NAvy first capital ships, laiddown and comisioned between 1903 and 1906, they looked simmilar as the ships below.
HMS De Ruyter
HMS Tromp
HMS Heemskerk
HMS Evertsen
3 light cruisers
HMS Java, HMS, Celebes, HMS Sumatra and 12 Destroyers, British design

sms_radetzky_plan.jpg
 
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Second series of Dutch Battle ships

Second class of Dutch Battleships, Dutch oyal Navy first all big gun ships.
Laiddown and commisioned between 1911 and 1914
HMS Friesland
HMS Holland
HMS Zeeland
HMS Gelderland
HMS Brabant

And 3 cruisers HMS Koningin Regentes. HMS Frederik Hendrik, HMS VAn Genth
design_1913_a.JPG
 
Terms of the Dutch gouverment

Teritorial gains demanded by the Dutch gouverment for their support to the Alies. Also demanded was; German West Africa and Cameroun. Cameroun was granted, German West Africa was rejected by the British and French.

Bakker_Schut-plan.png
 
Which US weaponry?

In OTL, the US army had so little weapons its expeditionary forces in Europe had to be equipped by France, for everything heavier than a riffle ( and that despite the fact that some US equipment eg Lewis light machine gun was better than equivalent french one - the production capability for one was available, the other was not -.)

SO it will take quite some time for US industry to build the plants to build the weapons for the Dutch.
 
Wouldn't queen Wilhelmina have to sign any declaration of war against Germany? To be honest, although she's not a pacifist as Juliana, I don't see her signing any declaration of war.

I doubt the Dutch Army, however modernised and big, is capable of a guarantee to keep the Germans out of all of the Netherlands in the case of war with Germany. A declaration of war, even days before the Armistice, would be foolish.

I also doubt the Dutch government is capable of building up both a strong Navy and a strong Army at the same time. IRL the Dutch invested relatively much in building up an airforce, would they do so in this timeline?

Last but not least, This would be a huge gamble with not even that much dividend;
the Netherlands has more then enough colonies already and any part of Germany on the continent would probably be given back within 30 years of the end of the war.
 
-About the US weaponry, I did not know the production capacity of the USA was low, even for small arms like rifles and machine guns. I just tought one neutral country bought what ever it could find on the neutral arms market, and thought the USA was the lergest of that time, mistake.
About the quality of the field army, it would not be a quality army, just a large conscript army with modern arms or not tooo old.
Politicly this plan is mad, I agree, no sence statesman would do it, but the whole Great War was in escence a large foolish gamble, by sencitive states men, at least people thought they were.
The extra colonies is not because of nescesaty, but just out of greed, like the allied forces in OTL at Versailes. The colonies act as a subtitute for hard cash war repayments.
No doubt during the fighting, battle would occure on Dutch soil, since every battle plan will be obsolete after the first shots fired.
- A causus beli is not realy needed. he German Reich did not need it when it crossed the borders of Belgium.
Green is the claimed territory. This consist of East Frisia, Bentheim, Cleve, Julich Colone and more. The first were Calvinist regions, the later Catholic and the rest Lutheran, so it keep the balance of religions in the Netherlands nice in the midle.
All these regions were most of their history,by culture and some by religion, focused on the Netherlands, this only shifted after the Napoleontic eara, until the first quarter of the 20th century a kind of Dutch dialect was spoken in these regions, not High German.
 
Above is just an idea of what could happen if Dutch Cabinets made seriuos efforts of building up a battleship fleet from the start of the 20th century. A fleet large enough of to make a serous defense of the Eas Indies.
Would it make a small country with only litlle industry and just some 2 to 3 milion soules, an attracktive partner. Even just as a reinforcement.
 

Markus

Banned
The German Germania design was chosen.
This class was complete in service in summer of 1914, just a month before the Great War broke out.

That is fast, too fast. German shipyards were already running at full capacity.


The Netherlands stayed neutral, which they managed well, untill late 1915. By then it was clear to every one that this jolly war wassn't short.

One more reason not to get involved in this mess!


This consist of East Frisia, Bentheim, Cleve, Julich Colone and more. The first were Calvinist regions, the later Catholic and the rest Lutheran, so it keep the balance of religions in the Netherlands nice in the midle.

Never mind religion, but you do realized you just got the Netherlands a several million strong fifth column and uttely ruined german-dutch relations that had been trouble free for many decades.
 
That is fast, too fast. German shipyards were already running at full capacity.

Altough the Netherlands had litle heavy industry, it did had more than enough shipyard capacity to build large vessels as battleships. Ship building technology was state of the art, and know how was available for complex ships, this was proven in varous civil ships.



One more reason not to get involved in this mess!

You're right, but it is a bould, oportunistic move, like the Italians made.



Never mind religion, but you do realized you just got the Netherlands a several million strong fifth column and uttely ruined german-dutch relations that had been trouble free for many decades.

Also rigth, political relations would be in tatters for years, if not decades. At the other hand you forget the behaviour of German politics towards Belgium and the behavoiur of its soldiers towards the Belgian civil population. Just want to say that considerations about reputation were not so high at that time.
Population was not more than 3 milion
 

Markus

Banned
At the other hand you forget the behaviour of German politics towards Belgium and the behavoiur of its soldiers towards the Belgian civil population.


First, most of that was cruelty propaganda, not actual atrocities. Second, what do the Dutch care about non-Dutch(Germans), allegedly or actually mistreating other non-Dutch(Belgians)?
 
As mentioned before the dreadnoughts ordered to 1910 most likely wouldn't be finished by summer 1914. German shipyards are pretty busy as is.
 
If there was some way for the Netherlands to enter the war just after the beginning of1918, right around the time of the German retreat from France. The Netherlands could enact a major offensive to strike at the heart of Germany.

The Germans would be pushed back by the first offensive which would drive the German army out of strategic positions earmarked by the Netherlands army. After that it all comes down to how the allies react and how the Germans come back ?
 
First, most of that was cruelty propaganda, not actual atrocities. Second, what do the Dutch care about non-Dutch(Germans), allegedly or actually mistreating other non-Dutch(Belgians)?
This was not propaganda!!!!
What you write here is rubbish, there are no other words for.
Leuven was set ablaze, men were random taken out of there homes and shot. Woman were raped, houses were pilaged.
This wasn't propaganda, it was witnesed by Dutch new paper reporters. And the hundred thousend refugees entering neutral Holland did affect the Dutch population, no matter if they spoke Dutch (Flemmish) or Waloon (French).
This all besause German soldiers thought ''Franc Tileurs'' shot on them, most cases it were shots in the air of their dronk comrades.
If this were no atrocities, then I do not know what your standards are for that.
 
As mentioned before the dreadnoughts ordered to 1910 most likely wouldn't be finished by summer 1914. German shipyards are pretty busy as is.
On with the normal ATL.
As I wrote earlier, Holland had capable ship yards to build large ships as battleships. Yooure rigth summer of 1914 is a bit fast, takje the last 1 or 2 ships of the class finished in 1915, with let say the last ship a quarter of it secondary armament missing, due to the war.
German ships yards were able to build a battleship in a whopping short time of 28 months, the British even faster.
 
This was not propaganda!!!!
What you write here is rubbish, there are no other words for.
Leuven was set ablaze, men were random taken out of there homes and shot. Woman were raped, houses were pilaged.
This wasn't propaganda, it was witnesed by Dutch new paper reporters. And the hundred thousend refugees entering neutral Holland did affect the Dutch population, no matter if they spoke Dutch (Flemmish) or Waloon (French).
This all besause German soldiers thought ''Franc Tileurs'' shot on them, most cases it were shots in the air of their dronk comrades.
If this were no atrocities, then I do not know what your standards are for that.
There most definitely were real atrocities. Germans did kill civilians, but these were isolated incidents, not a planned terror campaign.

I think what Markus is talking about are the British claims about Germans giving children hand grenades to play with, gouging out eyes, crucifying POW's, cutting off hands, bayoneting babies, sexually mutilating women, etc... which were blatant propaganda.
 
On with the normal ATL.
As I wrote earlier, Holland had capable ship yards to build large ships as battleships. Yooure rigth summer of 1914 is a bit fast, takje the last 1 or 2 ships of the class finished in 1915, with let say the last ship a quarter of it secondary armament missing, due to the war.
German ships yards were able to build a battleship in a whopping short time of 28 months, the British even faster.

Holland does have the heavy industry to build large ships, but probably not to outfit battleships. As you mention they would be dependent upon contracting out the heavy armament - maybe even the armor. Not sure about the engines and other works. Once war is declared the Dutch are - more than likely - not going to get their ships, especially not once the front stabilizes. They will be financially compensated and the battleships added to the Imperial Navy.
 

HJ Tulp

Donor
If there was some way for the Netherlands to enter the war just after the beginning of1918, right around the time of the German retreat from France. The Netherlands could enact a major offensive to strike at the heart of Germany.

The Germans would be pushed back by the first offensive which would drive the German army out of strategic positions earmarked by the Netherlands army. After that it all comes down to how the allies react and how the Germans come back ?


In 1918 the German high command wanted to retreat German forces through Limburg to Germany. The Dutch Military was put on alert and the Allies heavily protested. In the end the Dutch Government gave the Germans the green light. If they hadn't it could very well have been war.
 
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