The Neterlands buys the unfinished Mackensen battlecruisers

Status
Not open for further replies.
Altitude is the key factor. US and German dive bombers dropped from 300 to 600 yards. I guess "Vals" were not much different. So 3" of armour should suffice:

The Yorktown class had just 1.5" of armour, so it´s not surprising that a 550lb bomb goes through that even when dropped from a low altitude. As far as I can tell the US BB at PH had ~5" of deck armour, not along the entire deck but above the vitals("all or nothing").


@Parma: Where do you get the data about GDP, defence budgest from? I need to add that book to my library. And what´s the state of the Javas in the mid-30? Are the the same as ITOL or modernized like you proposed(4 2*15cm turrets).


The battleships at Pear Harbor were the modernized and uparmored USS Nevada, Oklahoma, Arizona and Pennsylvania, who all ad been given additional deckprotection in the 30's, increasing their original 3 inch decks with a second layer of 2 inch over the magazines. Sadly for USS Arizona, it was not enough.

The Four ships in port of the Big Five (USS Callifornia, Tennessee, Maryland and West Virginia were never uparmored between the wars, since they had been the newest of the battleships and were not yet in turn for a major refit, most likely due to more urgent needs elsewhere. They retained their original 3 inch deckarmor over the vitals (incl. magazines) which was about the same as on HMS Hood, who had two armored decks fo 1.5 inch each, totalling 3 inch a well. Any large AP shell, of 8 inch and larger, or AP bomb of more than 250 lbs (more than 110 kg at least), could in theory break through, if angled right and with enough speed. The original 3 inch deck was fine with artilleryshells fired at medium to short range, the most likley sort of action thought to exist during the designperiod, but completley out of date, when battleranges increased and naval airpower became more important. So the All or Nothing thinking in the designperiod of 1912 - 1914 made sense, but after the Great War it was obsolete, due the the changes in the way of warfare.
 
The mentioned fleet plans of 1913 and 1922 are real fleet plans and were with these numbers isued by the minister of Naval affairs and War submitted to parlaiment for approval. Economic they are viablle plans.
Consider as well that the Netherlands did not only consisted out of the small dot of land between Germany and the North Sea with at that time between 4 -5 milion inhabbitants but as well a colonial empire in the west Indies and especial in Asia with the size twice as Europe, were in money was made with the export of colonial agricultural goods for the industry as well as valuable minirals and oil.
The pre-WW1 plan was intend to be funded largley by the Dutch East Indies.
The plans were not executed or aproved due to other factors due to out break of war or change of political view.
After the Great war the pacifist movement gained a great momentum and a lot of politicians were more afraid of the state debt than investing in defence and defending neutrality and independence. That is why the Dutch goverment in 2 decades cut the defense budget to such a level that navy, army, and air units almost were completely disband.

In the fleet plan of 1921 ITL there were just enough politicians who saw the need of a resonable strong defense if the Netherlands want to defend its neutrality or independence.
Figures of the fleetplan and budgets are from:
Wikipedia;Dutch battleship plan 1913.
Budget figures and fleetplans in books; ''het koninkrijk der nederlanden in de tweede wererdoorlog 1, 2, 3'' ( it is in Dutch :eek:)
 
Last edited:
Air planes in the Dutch East Indies
June 1940
(after caputilation of the homeland to Germany)
First squadrons in 1931 were part of the Dutch land forces under command from the home land. Independ air branch of the Dutch east Indies since 1936.

A full strength afdeling (=squadron) with 12 aircraft was divided into three patrouilles (=flights) with four planes apiece, each patrouille split up into two pairs (=Koppel).
I Group
1-VlG-I : 12 Fokker T9 Samarinda II airfield, Borneo
2-VlG-I : 12 Fokker G1
3-VlG-I : 12 Fokker G1

4-VlG-I : 12 Fokker T9 Singkawang II airfield, Borneo
5-VlG-I : 12 Fokker G1
6-VlG-I : 12 Fokker G1
II Group
1-VlG-II : 12 Fokker T9 Singosari, Malang-Java
2-VlG-II : 12 Fokker T9.
3-VlG-II : 12 Fokker T9.
III Group
1-VlG-III : 12 Fokker G1 Tjililitan, Batavia-Java
2-VlG-III : 12 Fokker G1.
3-VlG-III : 12 Fokker G1
IV Group
1-VlG-IV : 12 Fokker T9 Maospati, Madioen -Java
2-VlG-IV : 12 Fokker G1.
3-VlG-IV : 12 Fokker G1
V Group
1-VlG-V : 12 Fokker DXXI: I Patrouille,Tjililitan, Batavia-Java
: 12 Fokker DXXI: II Patrouille, Perak-Java.
2-VlG-V : 24 Fokker DXXI: I and II Patrouilles, Andir-Java
:12 Fokker DXXIII : III Patrouille, Perak-Java
3-VlG-V : 12 Fokker DXXI, Maospati, Madioen -Java
VI Group
1-VlG-VI : 24 Fokker DXXI I and II Patrouille Samarinda II, Borneo.
: 12 Fokker DXXI III Patrouille Singkawang II, Borneo.
2-VlG-VI : 12 Fokker DXXI IV Patrouille Singkawang II, Borneo.

VII Group

1-VlG-VII : 12 Fokker DXXI Ambon Island
2-VlG-VII : 12 Fokker G1


Reconnaissance Squadrons
VkA1: 12 Fokker C X. biplanes
VkA2: 12 Fokker C X.
VkA3: 12 Fokker C X
VkA4: 12 Fokker C X
VkA5: 12 Koolhoven FK51 biplanes.
VkA6: 12 Koolhoven FK51.
VkA7: 12 Koolhoven FK51.
VkA8: 12 Fokker TV twin-engined ‘’long’’-range

Naval Air Service(Marine Luchvaart Dienst) organized in independent flightsof three aircraft)
GVT1 to GVT24 : 72 Dornier Do24K flying boats, called "X-Boots" by the Dutch, with 6 in reserve

GVT25 to GVT30 : 15 Fokker T8W floatplanes
Reserves
The flight schools provided enough aircraft to form an extra afdeling of Fokker G1, one of Lockheed L212s and two Koolhoven for the air force.
The naval air service also had 26 Fokker C5D and Es and 11 C14Ws on hand.

Early half of the thirties the way of defending the airspace of the Dutch east indies was thought to be with a single engine aircraft. Fokker was asked to build a prototype after specifications. The result was the DXXI. The result was disappointing, it was a typical Fokker design, metal tube frame, covered with linen and around the cockpit metal sheets and a wooden wing and fixed landing gear. Never the less it proved to be a rugged plane, easy in flight and maintenance and above all, cheep to produce. Most of the plane were to be build in a assembly line on Java. Initial a small order was made but followed soon others orders and several improved versions. All related to heavier engines or different armament configurations.
Soon was realized that short ranged fighters alone were not enough for the air defense. A solution was thought to be found in the Fokker G1.
The Fokker G1 was a private enterprise of the Fokker company according to specifications of the French armed forces. Despite a sensational entrance on the Paris aviation show the French did not showed interest. The Belgians however were looking for a light bomber and reconnaissance plane, with possibility to use it as a heavy fighter, in order to modernize and expand their fleet of Fairley Foxes.
One of the conditions was that it had to be fitted with the Belgian produced Hispano Suiza liquid cooled, line engines.
Most of the G1 were build by Renard who delivered also the fighter R36 for Belgium.


The Dutch East Indies air force however preferred American air cooled radial engines as used in their DXXI. This resulted in the development of two different planes on the same air frame.
The GI was stil a half metal, partly linen cover plane with a wooden wing.
The armament arrangement was copied from the Belgians; 2x 20mm guns, 2 x 7,9 mm MG in the nose and 1x 7,9mm MG in the tail and some 400Kg of bombs.

The G1 was thought to be to light as bomber so the new now true all metal Fokker T9 was purchased with the intention of replacing the G1’s over time.
The Fokker DXXI was intend to be replaced by modern fighters most likely from American designers, but one squadron was equipped with the latest Fokker DXXIII.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top