the Nestorian Mongol hordes

so for my timeline I'm writing, eventually the Mongols wind up as devout Nestorians (I can go in to more detail if you want).... and so they still go on a rampage, building a massive empire and all that.

one thing I was wondering though.. is would the Nestorian Mongols still attack Christian Europe? it's part of a timeline that diverges in the late 800s, so there is not much castellation in Germany and eastern Europe, making it easy prey. but I just wonder, would Christian Mongols be less likely to attack also-Christian Europe, or would the lure of easy riches and pillaging and all that be too much to resist?

please respond to this.. mine always get ignored, and I would prefer if this one wasn't.
 
so for my timeline I'm writing, eventually the Mongols wind up as devout Nestorians (I can go in to more detail if you want).... and so they still go on a rampage, building a massive empire and all that.

one thing I was wondering though.. is would the Nestorian Mongols still attack Christian Europe? it's part of a timeline that diverges in the late 800s, so there is not much castellation in Germany and eastern Europe, making it easy prey. but I just wonder, would Christian Mongols be less likely to attack also-Christian Europe, or would the lure of easy riches and pillaging and all that be too much to resist?

please respond to this.. mine always get ignored, and I would prefer if this one wasn't.

The Nestorians were considered heretics by mainstream Christians (both East and West), and the feeling was pretty much mutual. So my own feeling is that not only would the Nestorian Mongols attack Europe, but they would likely be a good deal more savage about it than they would attacking a non-Christian foe. Nothing like sectarian hatred and mutual feelings that "God is with US, not YOU" to get the massacre machine going.
 
The Nestorians were considered heretics by mainstream Christians (both East and West), and the feeling was pretty much mutual. So my own feeling is that not only would the Nestorian Mongols attack Europe, but they would likely be a good deal more savage about it than they would attacking a non-Christian foe. Nothing like sectarian hatred and mutual feelings that "God is with US, not YOU" to get the massacre machine going.
but the Christians did eventually try to all with the Mongols, especially with the Nestorians (see the Franco-Monol alliance article from the OTG wikipedia), and at some point the Nestorian Mongols even -- nominally at least -- converted to Roman Catholicism... so I can't imagine the hostility being great at that point. and even at the beginning of the Mongol invasions, the Christians were thinking it was Prestor John, coming to destroy the Muslims. and most of the Nestorian mongols were more anti-Islamic than they were anti-Christian (or at least Kuchlug was)... so would that factor in at all?
 

Glen

Moderator
so for my timeline I'm writing, eventually the Mongols wind up as devout Nestorians (I can go in to more detail if you want).... and so they still go on a rampage, building a massive empire and all that.

one thing I was wondering though.. is would the Nestorian Mongols still attack Christian Europe? it's part of a timeline that diverges in the late 800s, so there is not much castellation in Germany and eastern Europe, making it easy prey. but I just wonder, would Christian Mongols be less likely to attack also-Christian Europe, or would the lure of easy riches and pillaging and all that be too much to resist?

please respond to this.. mine always get ignored, and I would prefer if this one wasn't.

The Nestorians were considered heretics by mainstream Christians (both East and West), and the feeling was pretty much mutual. So my own feeling is that not only would the Nestorian Mongols attack Europe, but they would likely be a good deal more savage about it than they would attacking a non-Christian foe. Nothing like sectarian hatred and mutual feelings that "God is with US, not YOU" to get the massacre machine going.

but the Christians did eventually try to all with the Mongols, especially with the Nestorians (see the Franco-Monol alliance article from the OTG wikipedia), and at some point the Nestorian Mongols even -- nominally at least -- converted to Roman Catholicism... so I can't imagine the hostility being great at that point. and even at the beginning of the Mongol invasions, the Christians were thinking it was Prestor John, coming to destroy the Muslims. and most of the Nestorian mongols were more anti-Islamic than they were anti-Christian (or at least Kuchlug was)... so would that factor in at all?


Short answer, I think Genghis and his generals would do the same regardless of whatever religion they adopted. I'm not certain how 'devout' the first generation of converts really would be. Having them join a 'heretical' christian faction is even better to keep them fighting!
 
Short answer, I think Genghis and his generals would do the same regardless of whatever religion they adopted. I'm not certain how 'devout' the first generation of converts really would be. Having them join a 'heretical' christian faction is even better to keep them fighting!
it's not Genghis ITTL, it's Kuchlug, a Naiman. and Genghis is not as dominant in the hordes in this timeline.

but now that I think of it, Kuchlug would probably be worse than Genghis. he would surround Muslim villages with his troops, then force them to either convert to Nestorianism or Buddhism, or he would slaughter them all. so I can see him still going on a rampage in Europe, what do you think?
 
so for my timeline I'm writing, eventually the Mongols wind up as devout Nestorians (I can go in to more detail if you want).... and so they still go on a rampage, building a massive empire and all that.

one thing I was wondering though.. is would the Nestorian Mongols still attack Christian Europe? it's part of a timeline that diverges in the late 800s, so there is not much castellation in Germany and eastern Europe, making it easy prey. but I just wonder, would Christian Mongols be less likely to attack also-Christian Europe, or would the lure of easy riches and pillaging and all that be too much to resist?
IMO, Chalcedonian Christiandom would be lucky if their heresy would not make the Mongols _more_ hostile. It is possible that Central Asian Nestorianism would be heterodox/cosmopolitan enough to avoid the SwordpointConversion thing like the Muslims did, but if not....

HTG
 
When did the Mongols do "convert or die"?
it wasn't the Mongols, it was the Naiman rulers of the Kara-Khitan Khanate.... under Kuchlug (who ruled right before the Mongol takeover) they would do the convert-or-die stuff. and in this ATL Kuchlug defeats Temujin (as almost happened IOTL) and extends that policy on his rampage.
 
it wasn't the Mongols, it was the Naiman rulers of the Kara-Khitan Khanate.... under Kuchlug (who ruled right before the Mongol takeover) they would do the convert-or-die stuff. and in this ATL Kuchlug defeats Temujin (as almost happened IOTL) and extends that policy on his rampage.

Ah...Nestorian theocrats? Never heard of them before.
 
IIRC, the Nestorian Mongol idea has been around since the old board. Quite interesting, I may say, yet someone has yet to do a good, lengthly TL based on the idea.
 
IIRC, the Nestorian Mongol idea has been around since the old board. Quite interesting, I may say, yet someone has yet to do a good, lengthly TL based on the idea.
got any links to those kind of threads (besides the "Coming of Prestor John" thread, I've seen that)
 

Hendryk

Banned
Why not? Christian Europe was just fine with attacking Christian Europe.
Indeed, just because France and England were both Catholic countries didn't stop them from fighting the Hundred Year War. Then there are the various wars of religion in the 16th and 17th centuries. I also agree with robertp6165 that while in OTL the Mongols conquered for secular reasons, in this TL they may add the missionary urge to it, making them all the more aggressive, especially against perceived heretics.

Nestorian Mongols may be to pagan Mongols what the Normans were to the pagan Norse: they'd use religion as another reason to go rampaging. Interestingly, the one religion that could calm the Mongols down was the one they ended up converting to in OTL, namely Buddhism.
 
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