The Nazi-Soviet Axis Alliance

I hated it. It has a successful Sealion, Italy somehow superior to Germany in warfare, IRELAND successfully fending off a Germany that conquered England, Japan making peace with China because of the Soviets, and other things that made me mad.

Not to mention that it has Willkie as President BEFORE the election of 1940, let alone the 1941 inauguration, as would be the case had Willkie beaten FDR.
 
i had been wondering this same thing during my us history regents a couple of weeks ago. I think the the reason britian and frnace didn't delcare war was because the soviets invade much later than the nazis and they had already declared war.

What would be intersting would be a three sided world war- Germany Japan Italy vs britian and america vs soviet russia

true, but 3-sided wars are rare due to the doctrine of the-enemy-of-my-enemy-is-my-friend
 
It has a successful Sealion

Bah! With a Nazi-Soviet Unholy Alliance, why wouldn't they be able to pull off a successful Sealion? Why? Does all of Europe have to be conquered for it to work? All of Eurasia?

I still think that more people should take advantage of the Jewish commandos idea for WWII AHs. Ditto having Axis and Allies-backed factions slug it out in the Middle East, and an Axis South Africa coming into power and conquering southern Africa.
 
i had been wondering this same thing during my us history regents a couple of weeks ago. I think the the reason britian and frnace didn't delcare war was because the soviets invade much later than the nazis and they had already declared war.

What would be intersting would be a three sided world war- Germany Japan Italy vs britian and america vs soviet russia

What about an all out Communist vs Non-Communist War? Either during or immediately after WWII? Who would win?
 
What about an all out Communist vs Non-Communist War? Either during or immediately after WWII? Who would win?

Nobody. Both side still need to consolidate their power and partisan activities will be pretty bad in occupied territories. Mass starvation in europe and crippling casualties for all practipants before truce gets called.
 
What about a Soviet-German-Japanese Greater Alliance launching a war against Britain, France, Italy, and America? Would they have a chance?
 
What about a Soviet-German-Japanese Greater Alliance launching a war against Britain, France, Italy, and America? Would they have a chance?

I'd say no. Communism is hardly ineffective. Nazism is too. Japan is not yet the economic superpower. The only think what could come close to a victory for the Soviet-Nazi-Japanese victory is when these countries conquer ALL of Eurasia, disenabling the Allies from any Invasion, then a stalemate is found. Or nukes come in, then everything goes unpredictable: superior allies against German rockets with nukes produced by Stalin's slaveworkers?

American supplies should finally make the difference. IOTL, the Russians were heavily dependent on American supplies. Who would provide them boots and tanks and factories and food? They'd have no problem with raw materials, but with everything else.
 

Superdude

Banned
Bah! With a Nazi-Soviet Unholy Alliance, why wouldn't they be able to pull off a successful Sealion? Why? Does all of Europe have to be conquered for it to work? All of Eurasia?

No, seriously, all it said was that the Soviet airplanes used tipped the balance in favor of a successful Sealion. Also: The Soviet Union invades Scotland, creates Scottish SSR.
 
I'd say no. Communism is hardly ineffective. Nazism is too. Japan is not yet the economic superpower. The only think what could come close to a victory for the Soviet-Nazi-Japanese victory is when these countries conquer ALL of Eurasia, disenabling the Allies from any Invasion, then a stalemate is found. Or nukes come in, then everything goes unpredictable: superior allies against German rockets with nukes produced by Stalin's slaveworkers?

American supplies should finally make the difference. IOTL, the Russians were heavily dependent on American supplies. Who would provide them boots and tanks and factories and food? They'd have no problem with raw materials, but with everything else.

Well, with German technology and knowhow, Russia materials and manpower, and Japanese initiatives and strategies, how could they lose? Such a Eurasian Alliance would dominate the world!

world_1940.gif
 
Nazi-Soviet Cooperation is going to be temporary at best. The alliance holding up into 1943, with the Red Army driving into Madras and the Italian Army pushing into Sudan is believable, but sooner or later its going to crack.

Japan is in the difficult position of finding the Soviets backing Chiang--and the Soviets Aligning with Germany as well. This means that Japan is either isolated or it has to start leaning towards the United States--an extraordinarily awkward move, but one that, given the situation at hand, might happen. Count Japanese entry into the Axis ruled out in this situation; Japan may be neutral, or even allied, in this conflict.

With Japan put in this awkward positioning, perhaps the Anglo-American Alliance can consider containing both powers. Japan's reluctant neutrality, if not a unlikely alliance of its own, is going to be critical to containing Soviet Power in Asia; the UK is likely to hold only its home island on its own, but with help from the United States a Sub-Saharan African Campaign probably leads to an allied Victory.

By 1943, though, Hitler is going to hit the Soviets. And WW2 becomes a Triangle...
 
A Nazi-Soviet alliance can only work with Hitler dead. But if it happens, the results could be frightening. With no worries about an eastern front Germany can fully focus on western Europe and then pursue a Mediterranean strategy. Norway, Denmark, the Low Countries and France will likely fall even quicker than IOTL. The USSR in the meantime can invade Persia and Iraq, bringing huge supplies of oil under axis control. TTL's Afrika Corps can reach the Suez canal and link up with the Red Army which is probably wreaking havoc by now in Palestine.

Goering might have enough of a realpolitiker in him to actually do this; at least if the British decline the offer of an alliance which they might if Hitler dies after the annexation of Bohemia and Moravia. That proved the utter untrustworthiness of the Nazi regime.

Here's a draft:
1938: Munich conference decided in favour of Germany. Sudetenland annexed.

March 1939: Germany annexes Bohemia and Moravia, Slovakia becomes a puppet.

April 1939: Hitler tragically dies in a plane crash. A huge monument is erected by the new Führer, Hermann Goering.

May 1939: A coup by the SS led by Himmler takes place, claiming that Goering is untrue to Hitler's legacy and is imcompetent. The Heer manages to strike the SS down. Himmler, Heydrich and the SS are purged and will never rise to prominence again. Instead the SA gets a new life.

June 1939: Negotiations over an Anglo-German alliance fail because Britain demands the return of Bohemia and Moravia to Czechoslovakia. Goering can't do this. The rearmament is pushing Germany's economy to the breaking point. The Skoda factories help releave the pressure.

August/September 1939: After months of negotiations the Molotov-Von Ribbentrop agreementis signed. Initially a non aggression pact, on Goering's initiative transformed into an alliance. Secret clause about Poland's partition. Germany gets 1914 borders and the Soviets everything else. Germany concedes that Finland and the Baltics are in Stalin's sphere of influence. Central Europe and the Balkans become German. With Britain unwilling to become an ally and Italy being untrustworthy and dead weight, this is Goering's best option. France and Spain are not interested for obvious reasons. Japan is not worth much as it has an own agenda, not caring what the Germans want.
 
Nazi ideology and Lebensraum make a long-term alliance of convenience with the Soviet Union almost impossible, but a Germany led by a non-Nazi nationalist government that was mainly interested in defeating France and Britain and gaining colonies in Africa and the Middle East might be able to work with the Soviets for several years at least. Such an alliance would be extremely formidable - it might be able to push the British and French out of much of North Africa, the Middle East, and even India, even if the USA was supporting the western allies.

A Germany-USSR vs. Britain, France, USA, and possibly even Japan would make a very interesting alternate WWII, in my opinion. I don't think that the timeline posted earlier in this thread is realistic, but one could create a much more realistic timeline using this general scenario.
 
Well, with German technology and knowhow, Russia materials and manpower, and Japanese initiatives and strategies, how could they lose? Such a Eurasian Alliance would dominate the world!

KJ

However what if you get Nazi initiatives and strategies, Russian technology and know-now and Japanese materials and manpower? Being somewhat flippant here but the weaknesses of the three states, both singularly and together should be considered as well as their strengths.

Steve
 
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