The Napoleonic Diadochi. What would it take?

Lately I've been toying with this (work in progress):

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It's in very early stages; the thing is, I'm not an expert on the inner workings of the Napoleonic Empire and I haven't read the biographies of the great Marshals. I have, though, read extensively about the Diadochi and their time.

I got the idea from a book describing the conquest of Egypt by Napoleon and his Alexander-like intentions (or claims). The "what if he did pull off an Alexander" question swifly became "what if Diadochi, but with Napoleon".

This turned into a custom EU4 game, a free-for-all battle royale of the Napoleonic Marshals. But I've been thinking about it more and more. How can we get to a place in which the Napoleonic Empire is sufficiently well established (that is, without major enemies who can pick the Diadochi out one by one, or force them to join their stregth against a common enemy, say UK or Russia), but also weakly sewn together, so that it falls apart when the Marshals begin to fight amongst themselves, to show the ghost of Napoleon who's the worthiest. That is, the strongest.

So I imagine that, in all plausibility, if we want a scenario like this to develop, we need:

1- A total Napoleonic victory. One that leaves France without any opposition.
2- An earlier victory, one that ensures that Napoleon and his men are not bogged down in coalition wars for almost 20 years.
3- A wider Empire, stretching across Spain, France, Germany, Italy and probably also Austria, Hungary and Poland.
4- A more acute political reform that wipes out the Old World. This had already began with the French Revolution.
5- A discredit of revolutionary or liberal ideas in general, lest the peoples of Europe depose the new Napoleonic marshals. Or maybe not, this point is optional.
6- The discredit or death of most of the great royal houses of Europe. If the Habsburgs, the Hannovers, the Bourbons and the rest are still alive and kickin', then the instability can be too great for this to work.
7- Of course, Napoleon needs to die earlier, and no Napoleon II either. Probably in a very "Perdiccas and Antipater are killed and Cassander orders Roxana and Alexander IV poisoned and Olympias stoned to death" kind of way.

I also placed the Marshals a bit randomly, since they could be posted wherever we want, but they could also re-enact the Partition of Babylon in Paris and still be given positions and "satrapies". Some of it is for fun (like Junot the Mad, or Ney being driven to a life of decadence and piracy in Africa... a role in which I can imagine Murat much more readily than Ney), but this is not to see if my version of things is accurate (I know it's not), more to see what do your think would happen if this scenario could become true.

I'd like to read your input on the whole thing. Is it possible? Can it happen? Shoult it happen? Also, as you know, of the big winners of the Diadochi wars, Seleucus, Lysimachus, Cassander, Ptolemy and Philaretus of Pergamon, to an extent, only Ptolemy was in Alexander's inner circle, a Somatophylax, and the rest were underlings and middle commanders... so I guess we may see less Masséna, Berthier, St Cyr, and more Duke of Coigny, Marquis de Loriston, Maison, Bormont, Lamarck, Reille...

Thanks for reading!


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By the way, in my EU4 game, Oudinot took Paris and murdered Napoleon II, Soult kicked Joseph out of Spain only to be killed by Ney, and Augureau took Constantinople and then died of old age, and St Cyr, after having given his generals titles inspired by the Illiad, launched a conquest of Naples, but was stabbed in the back by Junot and Auguereau... In the end, Oudinot, Ney and Augureau were the top dogs, but they died soon after at their late 80's, and their empires went down from there, former nations popping out all over the place, conveniently around 1830.
 
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ar-pharazon

Banned
I think you would need a conquest of Britain and Russia for this to be possible.

But if so it would be a fascinating timeline.
 

Deleted member 97083

Amazing idea, but I think the situation would be even more unstable than the original Diadochi, because the area conquered by Napoleon hadn't already been part of a singular giant empire for 200 years, and because of the looming giant of Russia. Liberalism or no liberalism, the warlords are going to have a hard time fighting both the remnants of the Coalition and uprising among their own peoples. Actually, revolutionary or liberal ideas may help the warlords, if they can stoke nationalist sentiment in territories like Poland, Czechia, or Hungary, adopt the local cultures, and at least nominally act like liberators from the previous empires.
 
I think the natural problem is that most of the empire was already spoken for by civil governments run by Napoleon's relatives. Breaking it up into military regimes run by the marshals has a lot of obstacles to it; the most plausible direction I can see is the generals defecting with their armies between the Napoleonic kingdoms (Westphalia, Spain, Italy, Naples, etc), who want a more independent foreign policy.

For instance, say Joseph wants his own kingdom, not just being France's bitch. While officially subordinate to Berthier as regent of the empire, Suchet may be more loyal to Joseph than Berthier, and his Army of Aragon switch fealty from France to Spain; if Soult remains loyal to Napoleon II, then there's going to be a French v French civil war in Spain. Joseph names Suchet like Captain-General of Spain, and he's a virtual military dictator, with the Joseph more as a legitimizing puppet than an absolute monarch.

Meanwhile, there's a civil war in the low countries, as the British want to reestablish the regime of Louis Bonaparte to pull it out of France proper. With the promise of British funding and power and riches from the restored king, Brune takes charge of the Dutch forces against the French, who are supported by the Westphalians.
 
I think the natural problem is that most of the empire was already spoken for by civil governments run by Napoleon's relatives. Breaking it up into military regimes run by the marshals has a lot of obstacles to it; the most plausible direction I can see is the generals defecting with their armies between the Napoleonic kingdoms (Westphalia, Spain, Italy, Naples, etc), who want a more independent foreign policy.

For instance, say Joseph wants his own kingdom, not just being France's bitch. While officially subordinate to Berthier as regent of the empire, Suchet may be more loyal to Joseph than Berthier, and his Army of Aragon switch fealty from France to Spain; if Soult remains loyal to Napoleon II, then there's going to be a French v French civil war in Spain. Joseph names Suchet like Captain-General of Spain, and he's a virtual military dictator, with the Joseph more as a legitimizing puppet than an absolute monarch.

Meanwhile, there's a civil war in the low countries, as the British want to reestablish the regime of Louis Bonaparte to pull it out of France proper. With the promise of British funding and power and riches from the restored king, Brune takes charge of the Dutch forces against the French, who are supported by the Westphalians.

That sounds more plausible. It really seems like the tension between Paris and the Napoleonic client-states would be the driving force behind the conflicts. The kings (Joseph, Jerôme, even Eugene de Beauharnais if he's given Italy as he was intended to) usually were not great military leaders or lacked the energy of her brother (except for Lucien, who had energy to spare), and so they're good puppetheads for Ludendorff-style wartime dictatorships).

Still, France needs to win everything for this to work. Napoleon has to utterly defeat Russia and beat or break the British, which means that Russia doesn't need to be a looming presence. If the Russian campaign doesn't fail, Napoleon can break up Russia into satellite states. Make Stanislaw August king of an enlargened Poland with his nephew Josef Poniatowski as military dictator, carve up the Baltics, maybe even call back the Cossacks into his own side and give Crimea to someone he trusts. At this point, the Ottomans would practically be Napoleon's pillow.

Eventually (possibly by 1850) the whole thing would settle down in very ethnically-defined countries similar to the ones we know today, slowly verging towards political liberalism, elections and constitutional monarchies, if not outright republican governments (if the Marshal in place preached revolutionary ideals a tad too much), but sometimes the momentum of History can be stopped.
 
Given that Napoleon's power was not solely resting on Napoleon the man, but on Napoleon the myth and his tacit covenant with the French Army ("I'll treat you well, you'll give me power", Napoleon was very much Caesar in this regard, keep your army happy, which means that if some ruler is not able to keep his army happy, the country's up for a change, in the best of situations, and for a Year of the Four Emperors, in the worst). The French Empire, the way I see it, was a military dictatorship that needs a strong and content army to keep existing. Same goes for the client kingdoms.

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The situation, as it stands, could look like this (again, work in progress):

1801 - Tsar Paul avoids murder. He keeps Russia mostly out of the war, except for when Napoleon appears to be winning too much.

1806 - Tsar Paul is murdered by Josep de Ribas i Boyons and other officers of his general staff during a campaign in the War of the Fourth Coalition, as Paul was threatening to abandon the effort and return home. The murder did not go unnoticed (like it sort of did IRL) and Russia was split between support for the act or condemnation. A series of popular uprisings distabilised the country while the cream of the army was away. Young Alexander was made Emperor soon enough, but his government was uncertai. There was even a False Ivan IV claiming to be the sixty-year old infant emperor. Russia is out of the war, regadless.

1807 - Portugal is defeated by Junot and Joseph Bonaparte is made King of Portugal. Godoy is given the small kingdom of the Algarve. Napoleon did not press Charles IV for abdication, since the defeat of Portugal meant that the Continental System would remain in place, and Spain had not breen blatantly breaking it (save for some contraband, as everywhere else).

1808 - Without Godoy's influence in place, Spain grows restless and liberal elements begin to form a movement. Infant Ferdinand, now the real ruler, will use the situation to convince his father to adbicate in his favour. Napoleon won't like that, but his attention by this point is in Russia, where he steps in to confirm the Polish popular uprising. For now, no news on the Iberian front.

1810 - The War of the Fifth Coalition ended in total defeat for Austria. The Habsburgs are pacified and some of their land is trimmed to make room for Napoleon's plans for Europe.

1812 - Austria makes one last attempt with Britain, Prussia and Russia. Napoleon beats them all in a lightning campaign and dismembers the Habsburg Empire. He installs his wife as Empress of Austria and a proxy government in Vienna, Oudinot is made governor of Bohemia and Hungary is given a constitution and guarantee of self-government. Marshal Desaix (who is still alive) is sent there to administer the country during the transition.

1813 - With the first lights of spring, several uprisings swarm the west part of Russia. Cossack, Ruthenians, Poles and other peoples rebel and Napoleon makes sure to confirm their claims and sends units to guarantee their independence. Russia tries to counter these rebellions unsuccessfully.

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1818 - Napoleon dies at the height of his glory, never having been defeated, after coming back from a diplomatic visit to the Sublime Porte, before he could lauch his grand invasion of Britain. Could be malaria, poison... who knows? The Marshals sure don't and some disagree on what to do next. There are three parties at this time, among the generals and statesmen of Napoleonic Europe:

The republicans - Those who believe that the Empire was a temporary measure to reaffirm republican values and ideals.
The continuists - Those who want the Empire to remain as Napoleon left it.
The centrifuges - Those who want to limit the authority of Paris over the rest.

There is also a lot of personal distrust and grievance. Ney doesn't like Masséna, Davout can't stand Murat, Soult is seen as a bitter prick, Davout as a strict buzzkill, Murat as a flamboyant fop, Berthier as a glorified assistant...

1819 - Ferdinand VII of Spain gets Charles to abdicate, he takes the crown and begins a program of de-galification and de-liberalization. The population rebels in what would be known as the Mutiny of the Fourth of May. A civil Junta is established and Cortes are called for in Barcelona. The Cortes decide to invite Joseph Bonaparte to be the new King of Spain, so that he can preserve the rights of the people against absolutism. Suchet and Junot make haste for Madrid while Ferdinand VII, seeing how his army is defeated or deserts him, flees to Mexico.
 
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Well, so long as you forget about that little trip to egypt...

According to his propaganda, he was more or less victorious there. Besides, here Kléber hasn't been assassinated and still rules over Egypt. Although Napoleon and Kléber were not the best of friends (who was with Napoleon?) and the governor-general of Egypt will probably have something to say later on.

But yes, Egypt indeed slipped my mind.
 
According to his propaganda, he was more or less victorious there. Besides, here Kléber hasn't been assassinated and still rules over Egypt. Although Napoleon and Kléber were not the best of friends (who was with Napoleon?) and the governor-general of Egypt will probably have something to say later on.

But yes, Egypt indeed slipped my mind.
Kléber is still around? Well, unless something has seriously changed he ought to be one of the republican camp.
Did the ssassination attempt simply fail, or did it just not even happen?
 
Kléber is still around? Well, unless something has seriously changed he ought to be one of the republican camp.
Did the ssassination attempt simply fail, or did it just not even happen?

If it was simply a student killing Kléber for his own reasons, then yes, the attempt failed, he got another wound and scar for his collection. If it was a subterfuge to rid Napoleon of him... that's another matter that needs more study. Either way, he survived the attempt alive.

So far, the republican party has, that I can think of, BRUNE, KLÉBER and maybe JOURDAN and OUDINOT. That doesn't mean that they will immediately try to restore the Republic, but that may be in their heads, or lead them to take an active role in setting up proxy republics all around.

Obviously the brothers and Murat want less control from Paris, and some like Berthier, Soult, Suchet or Masséna prefer to keep things as they are... at least for the time being.

Things as they are in this TL, there's room for change. Lannes is still dead but Desaix and Kléber are alive, and Marmont has not defected, since there's really no side to defect. Marmont was very ambitious and Napoleon, maybe better advised, could have used his ambition to secure his service (maybe a province to govern, like Holland, or maybe an important position in the government), just as he should have been less petty with Jourdan and less dismissive of Junot (who probably commited suicide due to Napoleon exiling him to govern the Illyrian Provinces. Junot apparently really, really adored Napoleon, if we heed to his wife's memoirs).
 
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