The most powerful WW2 Axis possible

Spain

  • Actually reasonably easy, Hitler promises Franco Gibraltar, Morocco and as much of France as he can grab. He might join just after Italy, yet before the fall of France.

Actually Spain is reasonably hard. Hitler offered Franco everything except a blowjob from Eva and Franco was having none of it. He did not trust Hitler and made sure to ask for things he knew the Germans would be unable to supply.

Hitler later complained that he would rather visit his dentist than negotiate with Franco. Spain would join the day after Churchill and Stalin were paraded through Berlin in chains.
 
Actually Spain is reasonably hard. Hitler offered Franco everything except a blowjob from Eva and Franco was having none of it. He did not trust Hitler and made sure to ask for things he knew the Germans would be unable to supply.

Hitler later complained that he would rather visit his dentist than negotiate with Franco. Spain would join the day after Churchill and Stalin were paraded through Berlin in chains.

The problem was that Hitler hated personally negotiating with Franco, i imagine he wouldn't have the largest problem sending somebody else to do the negotiating.

I also think that Spain would be far more likely to join before the invasion of Russia. I think the optimum time would be after Italy joins yet before France falls fully, thereby allowing Spain easier access to Morocco, and a potential land-grab in Southern France
 
Actually Spain is reasonably hard. Hitler offered Franco everything except a blowjob from Eva and Franco was having none of it. He did not trust Hitler and made sure to ask for things he knew the Germans would be unable to supply.

Hitler later complained that he would rather visit his dentist than negotiate with Franco. Spain would join the day after Churchill and Stalin were paraded through Berlin in chains.

One of the main reasons for this was that Wilhelm Canaris actually met with Franco prior to Hitler's meeting with him and expressed his honest opinion that Germany wasn't going to win the war (Ironically, had Spain joined and seized Gibraltar, the Axis would've had a better chance of winning). As a result, Franco's interest in joining the Axis cooled. Find a way to keep Canaris quiet, and Franco is more likely to join the Axis or atleast let the Germans pass through to seize Gibraltar.
 
One of the main reasons for this was that Wilhelm Canaris actually met with Franco prior to Hitler's meeting with him and expressed his honest opinion that Germany wasn't going to win the war (Ironically, had Spain joined and seized Gibraltar, the Axis would've had a better chance of winning). As a result, Franco's interest in joining the Axis cooled. Find a way to keep Canaris quiet, and Franco is more likely to join the Axis or atleast let the Germans pass through to seize Gibraltar.

There was also US economic pressure. Spain depended upon imported oil, much of it from the US as well as grain.

Spain had just finished a devastating civil war and was in no condition to enter another war. It had a potential fifth column within itself from the Republican losers of the civil war and Spanish entry into the Axis would almost guarantee Portugal would join the Allies thus potentially putting Allied armies on the Spanish border. Even if that did not happen, the Canaries were exposed and vulnerable and would almost certainly be invaded. Spain had too much to lose and little to gain.
 
Argentina might have wanted the Falklands, but food exports to the UK were a substantial part of the Argentine economy in those days and of course their joining the Axis would have put a sudden stop to that trading relationship...
 
There was also US economic pressure. Spain depended upon imported oil, much of it from the US as well as grain.

Spain had just finished a devastating civil war and was in no condition to enter another war. It had a potential fifth column within itself from the Republican losers of the civil war and Spanish entry into the Axis would almost guarantee Portugal would join the Allies thus potentially putting Allied armies on the Spanish border. Even if that did not happen, the Canaries were exposed and vulnerable and would almost certainly be invaded. Spain had too much to lose and little to gain.

You think Salazar would have joined the Allies if Franco joined the Axis? I find that hard to believe. I don't know the most about Salazar, but my guess is that if he didn't join the Axis after Spain did, he'd stay non-belligerent, perhaps sending volunteers to fight on the eastern front much in the way Franco did IOTL
 

Daffy Duck

Banned
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Ok, just my two cents worth..
Most powerful WW2 Axis possible includes Spain, Turkey and Sweden.

Two points of diversion I can see off the top of my head.

The Axis delays Barbarossa and throws everything they have for a knock-out in the Med against the U.K.(without declaring war on the U.S.). IF (and thats a big IF) the Axis can drive the Royal Navy out of the Med (taking Gibraltar, Egypt and Malta), the British hold on the Med will wither on the vine. If that happens, the U.K. is going to start to feel the pinch. Would it bring down Churchill? Not sure..

The Axis still goes forward with Barbarossa. Some differences with the northern sectors. In OTL, the Finns did take part of the Murman railway (for a short time). IF the Swedes and the Finns go balls-to-the-wall during Barbarossa, Murmansk and Leningrad fall, almost without a doubt. Will Arkhangelsk fall? Maybe/maybe not. They might be cut off from the rest of the USSR. What effect will this have on the war? I'd love to hear some opinions.
 
Ok, just my two cents worth..
Most powerful WW2 Axis possible includes Spain, Turkey and Sweden.

Two points of diversion I can see off the top of my head.

The Axis delays Barbarossa and throws everything they have for a knock-out in the Med against the U.K.(without declaring war on the U.S.). IF (and thats a big IF) the Axis can drive the Royal Navy out of the Med (taking Gibraltar, Egypt and Malta), the British hold on the Med will wither on the vine. If that happens, the U.K. is going to start to feel the pinch. Would it bring down Churchill? Not sure..

The Axis still goes forward with Barbarossa. Some differences with the northern sectors. In OTL, the Finns did take part of the Murman railway (for a short time). IF the Swedes and the Finns go balls-to-the-wall during Barbarossa, Murmansk and Leningrad fall, almost without a doubt. Will Arkhangelsk fall? Maybe/maybe not. They might be cut off from the rest of the USSR. What effect will this have on the war? I'd love to hear some opinions.

You could actually have Malta fall fairly easily without adding any new Axis nations. Have Mussolini attack Malta from the word go instead of invading France. France was going to fall anyway and it wouldn't have been that hard for Mussolini to get Hitler to give him some border territories as part of the spoils.

Although the Italian military was not very good, Malta was under-defended at this point in the war, and should Italy attack they would have no way of being reinforced or resupplied, not to mention that the Italians would have total air superiority. This happens, Malta falls in June. You also have Spain join the war, then Gibraltar falls not too much later, leaving Egypt terribly hard to supply. Have Italy leave Greece alone and focus his attacks on Egypt, the extra Italian attention, the addition of Spanish troops and the difficulty of supplying the defenders make Egypt a lot easier to take, also the pro-Axis uprising in Iraq is not put down so easily.

With the Med fast becoming an Axis lake, Turkey and perhaps even pro-Axis Greece join the Axis. When Babarossa comes around (Perhaps sooner without all the fighting in the Balkans), Turkish and Greek troops surge up the Caucasus, taking Baku and perhaps some other important cities. If you have the Swedes joining, and them and the Fins going full-out, Leningrad and Murmansk fall and Arkhangelsk is put under siege if not taken. If you have Hitler allow Lithuania to be a semi-independent puppet state, much in the manner of Slovakia, that gives the Axis a boost too. This coupled with the earlier assault and the addition of Spanish troops, Moscow is now under a much more serious threat. Will it fall? Perhaps, i have no idea, but the USSR is in a much weaker position.

Another thing you could do is have the Yugoslavian coup fail, keeping them in the Axis. It's also possible to have Italy pressure San Marino into joining the Axis, this will make almost no difference, but you could do it.

With Spain in the Axis, i don't see it as impossible that Portugal would send a volunteer division to the Eastern front, much in the way that Spain did IOTL.

For one last blow to the Allies, remove Hitler's indecision and have the Germans run right up to the channel in the Fall of France, capturing or killing the BEF, making Egypt an even softer target.

I could also return to a point i made earlier about a British invasion of Norway. A good way to go about this is to have the British invade only hours before the Germans were planning to, this way the Germans will still invade Denmark, and will be fully ready to resist the invasion of Norway and placing Norway in the Axis. Another benefit to a British attack on Norway is that it makes Sweden that little bit less friendly towards the Allies, and therefore that little bit more likely to join the Axis. Norwegian troops will likely be primarily interested in self-preservation, sitting around in defensive positions, but they'd no doubt make some effort in the invasion of the USSR, putting Arkhangelsk under even more threat.

The other potential Allied invasion of a neutral country is Afghanistan. In October 1941 the Soviets were going to if an ultimatum wasn't agreed to. We can assume that the Afghans say no, and the Soviet invade. They'll last a month, tops, yet will have a resistance movement of sorts (Look at any other time in modern history Afghanistan was invaded), and it's just another drain to the Soviets.

So without bringing Latin America into it, or having a pre-1939 POD, this is the best i can do. Not sure what outcome this will have but with Norway, Sweden, Greece, Spain, San Marino, Turkey, Lithuania and Afghanistan now in the Axis, and Iraq and Yugoslavia kept there longer, plus with Malta and Gibraltar both in Axis hands by the end of July 1940, the Allies are in a perilous position.

Final thought: Mussolini forgot to warn his merchant fleet about the declaration of war IOTL, causing 2/3 of them to be seized by the Allies in the first week of war. Have him warn them for a slight boost to the Axis.
 
Another thing I should add - Spain can join the war a second way, without Franco's permission. Batista of Cuba suggested a Latin American invasion of Spain. America shot the idea down, but we could change it so that they get given the go-ahead. The Latin American nations in the Allies at the time were Cuba, Brazil, Bolivia, Columbia, Panama, Costa Rica, Nicaragua, Honduras, Guatamala, San Salvador and Mexico. Between them they could easily put together a force to invade Spain successfully in 1944. When Spain would fall is questionable but if the Latin Americans were having trouble, the British, Americans and French could easily muck in.

Another nation you could add to the Axis by having them invaded is Brazil if Plan Rubber was executed. This would turn out to be a bad idea as the Allies would have to spend a long time fighting through the Brazilian jungle for a very small pay off. This would add perhaps six months to the war.

I don't know if you guys care at all about this, but it could have happened.
 

Morty Vicar

Banned
India is interesting, they have very much to gain from joining the Axis, many Indians did OTL. They could provide a major blow to the British and Americans in the pacific, maybe even persuade some neighbouring peoples from Afghanistan, Nepal etc to join them too. They don't have much in the way of technology, but in terms of manpower they could be a huge resource drain on the allies at the very least. And Japan would benefit from India's backing, as they were otherwise pretty much alone out there. An India at the time that inlcudes Bangladesh, Pakistan and possibly also takes Sri Lanka and Afghanistan into a greater India would make great advances into the middle east as well.
 
India is interesting, they have very much to gain from joining the Axis, many Indians did OTL. They could provide a major blow to the British and Americans in the pacific, maybe even persuade some neighbouring peoples from Afghanistan, Nepal etc to join them too. They don't have much in the way of technology, but in terms of manpower they could be a huge resource drain on the allies at the very least. And Japan would benefit from India's backing, as they were otherwise pretty much alone out there. An India at the time that inlcudes Bangladesh, Pakistan and possibly also takes Sri Lanka and Afghanistan into a greater India would make great advances into the middle east as well.

I know there was the Azad Hind, but can you really get the whole of India into the Axis of it's own free will?

If they join, they'll doubtless take Nepal, Sri Lanka and Bhutan. Depending on what the state of the war overall is, Afghanistan might muck in with the Axis but who knows.

I'm really interested in an Axis India
 
India's still part of the British Empire at the time, there would have to be a revolt for it to join the Axis, and such a revolt would be a sheer bloodbath and the British would destroy India's Infrastructure if it was revolting on behalf of the Axis

Assuming a revolt succeeded infrastructure damage will spark one hell of a famine and unless the Japanese help India has no power projection beyond its immediate land borders and not that far there, forget about the Middle East

Of course India was never in serious danger of revolting beyond passive resistance
 
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