The most effective Entente intervention in Russian Civil War?

I’ve been wondering whether Entente could allocate its resources more efficiently and effectively during the Russian Civil War? Perhaps more funds, equipment and soldiers could be poured in to ensure the White success or on the contrary Entente should concede the White win and minimize its losses? What were the best decisions to take?

Assume an late 1918 or early 1919 POD without direct changes in Russia itself.
 
Probably one of the most effective measures the Entente cold take would be to let Germany handle the whole thing. That would require different peace terms in the East, though...
 
If the Czechoslovak legion took sides a bit earlier and stayed involved rather than just trying to flee the impact could be pretty huge.
 
I’ve been wondering whether Entente could allocate its resources more efficiently and effectively during the Russian Civil War? Perhaps more funds, equipment and soldiers could be poured in to ensure the White success or on the contrary Entente should concede the White win and minimize its losses? What were the best decisions to take?

Assume an late 1918 or early 1919 POD without direct changes in Russia itself.

OTL :

Denikin and the southern White forces try to capture Moscow in the summer of 1919. They were defeated at Orel in October 1919, 400 km south of Moscow.

Polish Army advanced in April to October 1919 taking Vilnius and Minsk and taking all of Bielorus.

So the POD :

France for example, obtained in earlier 1919 from the Poles and Denikin the signature of an agreement of military cooperation against the Reds.
And France help Poland to have a better army on the eastern front by making pressures on the Dantzig port to help the transfer of the "Blue Army" and of military equipment for others polish forces.

But :

The Poles will accept only if their eastern borders were secured with parts of Lithuania, Bielorus and western Ukraine...

And it will be difficult to Dekinin to accept these borders, as some "historical russian lands" will be in foreign hands...


So, Polish offensive on Vilnius, Minsk and after it Vitbesk and Smolensk will put more pressure on the Reds.

Haller's Army or Blue Army can come to Poland before April and June 1919, because France will made the Germans to accept Polish troops to use Dantzig port...

And this Army will be not transferred to the border with Germany from the eastern front in July 1919, to face a possible German invasion. Because France made pressure on German government or they sent their own forces to secure these regions.


But a White victory in Russian Civil War without a change of mentality of the Whites leaders and the support of russian peasantry is nearly impossible.
 
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HJ Tulp

Donor
If the Czechoslovak legion took sides a bit earlier and stayed involved rather than just trying to flee the impact could be pretty huge.

I doubt that is possible. The Legion only had one goal: Getting to Czechoslovakia. The only reason they started to fight the Reds was because of some stupid moves by Trotsky and others.
 
By 1919 was the German Army even capable of large scale operations?

I don't think german army was capable of large scale operations in late 1918.

And the situation wa probably worse on the russian front or the eastern occupation zone because germans soldiers were less reliable than on the western front : older, less motivated, doing garrisons duty and they were subject to communist propaganda.
 
By 1919 was the German Army even capable of large scale operations?

Yet again, I find myself proscribing The White Guard. Intosh is quite right: after the German revolution, German troops in the east were seen in red armbands. There were actually some Germans still in Kiev when Petlyura turned up, but they obeyed a kind of German "soviet" that wanted to get home and stayed out of the fighting.

I see no reason to assume that Germans would be willing to get involved in a factional struggle in Russia. To paraphrase TWG: "The soldiers in their dung-beetle helmets and ear-muffs saluted, for the look of the thing. In fact, they didn't really care whether it was a Russian general or a Zulu chief. It was lousy country, anyway."
 
I’ve been wondering whether Entente could allocate its resources more efficiently and effectively during the Russian Civil War? Perhaps more funds, equipment and soldiers could be poured in to ensure the White success or on the contrary Entente should concede the White win and minimize its losses? What were the best decisions to take?

Assume an late 1918 or early 1919 POD without direct changes in Russia itself.

For the Whites to win the Russian Civil War, you'd probably need MASSIVE numbers of men and money, and by 1918 neither Britain nor France had either. Japan was too far away at the eastern edge of the Russian empire. America did have both, but no desire to intervene.
 
OTL :

Denikin and the southern White forces try to capture Moscow in the summer of 1919. They were defeated at Orel in October 1919, 400 km south of Moscow.

Polish Army advanced in April to October 1919 taking Vilnius and Minsk and taking all of Bielorus.

So the POD :

France for example, obtained in earlier 1919 from the Poles and Denikin the signature of an agreement of military cooperation against the Reds.
And France help Poland to have a better army on the eastern front by making pressures on the Dantzig port to help the transfer of the "Blue Army" and of military equipment for others polish forces.

But :

The Poles will accept only if their eastern borders were secured with parts of Lithuania, Bielorus and western Ukraine...

And it will be difficult to Dekinin to accept these borders, as some "historical russian lands" will be in foreign hands...


So, Polish offensive on Vilnius, Minsk and after it Vitbesk and Smolensk will put more pressure on the Reds.

Haller's Army or Blue Army can come to Poland before April and June 1919, because France will made the Germans to accept Polish troops to use Dantzig port...

And this Army will be not transferred to the border with Germany from the eastern front in July 1919, to face a possible German invasion. Because France made pressure on German government or they sent their own forces to secure these regions.


But a White victory in Russian Civil War without a change of mentality of the Whites leaders and the support of russian peasantry is nearly impossible.

Does sending more military advisors for the Whites count as direct changing to Russia itself?
 

mowque

Banned
I would try to somehow beef up American intervention. They were the only nation that had the men and cash to make it stick.
 
One of the problems for the Allies and the Whites was the endemic corruption of White officers and officials in the rear. As an example, Orlando Figes cites instances of White officers selling antifreeze in bars in the Kuban while whatever vehicles they had clammed up due to the cold. You also had Allied stores and supplies piling up on the dockyards and remaining there due to the lack of an efficient distribution system (and indeed the lack of rolling stock or useable roads to get them to the front line).

I'm not sure that either problem can be solved. Overt Entente-backed action to stamp out corruption in the ranks is just going to cause alienation amongst Russian officers and possibly add another arrow to the nationalist bow of the Reds - while at the best of times improving Russia's infrastructure and transportation system would be a Herculean task, never mind in the midst of a chaotic Civil War.
 
A lucky Entente soliders manages to put lethal sniper rounds in Leon's, Trotsky's, and Stalin's heads. The Reds fall into chaos, and the Entente backed-Whites crush them.

While that idea is probably ASB, killing off Red leaders would have been a great way to start.
 
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