The Montana class battleships get built

Say again; if they are making these claims then they are not reliable sources. Look, think about it. If this information is so classified, why on earth are they telling you about it?. Classified means classified, it means that access to the information in question is severely restricted. If the performance of the SR-71 or the CVNs was really so much greater than the released information states, then that is so highly classified, its way beyond top secret, its up in the compartmentalized information sector. Up there, reading people into a specific information compartment is a very serious business and people who get read into a specific compartment are subject to severe penalties if they even admit that compartment exists. And yet you are claiming that these same people blabbed the contents to you.

This is what would really happen if the people in question really had access to genuine information. The powers that be would be looking at your post about the SR-71 this morning and picking up telephones. By lunchtime they would be in touch with your internet provider with a warrant and get your personal information. By mid-afternoon two things wil have happened. One is that they will have pulled the files of everybody who has been read into that specific compartment and see which one of them has been in contact with you. Secondly, you will have been visited by the guys in sunglasses who drive black Suburbans and invited to assist them in their inquiries. When you ask "am I being arrested" the answer will be "yes". You and everybody on the clearance list will be interviewed in great depth over a prolonged period. Then, the people who blabbed the information to you will be charged and go to Leavenworth for a long time. You'll be given a talking-to you will never forget. Your name will also go onto a flag list and you'll find it very difficult to get a job with any Federal or State agency.

That's secret information. And you just told Calbear, who I've always thought to have been in the employ of the Russians. Expect the goons to come round: 3-ish okay?

Although hopefully it means Tom Clancy (used to write some good novels, then got a bit weird) will be arrested and beheaded in Time Square. Recall meeting one of his 'moles' grilling British officers for a new project.
 
I never claimed that the -71 could reach orbit, fly at mach 6, outrun any missile that could be fired at it, disappear from radar, or any of the other rather outlandish claims that are surprisingly common. They are all, on their face, clearly false. I did state that the ANNOUNCED speed of the aircraft is less than actual max speed, which, as you point out IS very much the top cruise speed. I did not, at any time, violate Opsec, nor would I under any circumstances. As you pointed out earlier, the statement regarding the Blackbird's speed is about 40 mph over the acknowledged long distance record, something I doubt the DIA would have a conniption over (actually that figure, about 1.8%, is within aircraft vs aircraft variance expectations). I was never told, nor did I ever ask, that the real top speed of the aircraft was X; the comment was that the official speed run wasn't all the aircraft had, followed by flight data I related. I have an opinion on the top speed of the aircraft, which is noting but that, an opinion, but I didn't repeat that as fact because it isn't.

I would also point out that, in the convoluted world that is military security, most of the really far out claims (70 knots for the Nimitz? Never heard that one before) COME from the military. The better to muddy the waters, especially during the operational life of the platform involved.

Now, if you find my credibility destroyed by my saying that the U.S., or any other, military plays its cards close to the vest and/or keeps ships/planes from using 100% capacity in peacetime, that is something I can't change.

What you actually stated was that people who were "reliable sources" had claimed that the SR-71 was capable of speeds more than 50 percent in excess of the published data. My point is that anybody who says that is by definition not a reliable source.

Its a simple binary set. Either the comments made to you are true or they are not.

If they are true, then the people who gave you the information (giving the exact speed is irrelevent) have committed a massive OPSEC breach by giving it to you and you have done the same by reproducing it. The people who talked to you have been massively irresponsible and are going to be in a world of hurt.

If they are not true, then they are simply liars and I find that a much more plausible explanation.

Either way they are not plausible or reliable sources, especially since the SAC for the SR-71 has been declassified

Same applies to the CVN top speed accounts.

The extra 40mph is just as easily attributed to a tailwind or to minor errors in numbers. If the flight distance is 2750 miles rather than 2800 and the time taken is 1 hour and 20 minutes rather than 1 hour and 15, the average speed drops to 2,115 mph. The claimed flight is worthless as a proof of anything.

As for the source of the CVN speed being from within the military. Sea stories. Utterly unreliable as anything more than a good accompaniment to a few beers.
 

CalBear

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That's secret information. And you just told Calbear, who I've always thought to have been in the employ of the Russians. Expect the goons to come round: 3-ish okay?

Although hopefully it means Tom Clancy (used to write some good novels, then got a bit weird) will be arrested and beheaded in Time Square. Recall meeting one of his 'moles' grilling British officers for a new project.

The Russians? Never! They pay %$&#!

Now the Israelis...

:D
 
That's secret information. And you just told Calbear, who I've always thought to have been in the employ of the Russians. Expect the goons to come round: 3-ish okay?

Don't be stupid. My point is quite simple. If the story quoted about the SR-71 being 50 percent faster than the available data (which wa sthe very specific statement) it would be so highly classified that all hell would break loose if somebody claimed it in public. That demonstrably has not happened so it is reasonable to assume the statement is crap. Furthermore, if it was true, those in the know would not be telling casual acquaintances about it.

Although hopefully it means Tom Clancy (used to write some good novels, then got a bit weird) will be arrested and beheaded in Time Square. Recall meeting one of his 'moles' grilling British officers for a new project.

Oh grow up. The whole point of this is that the absurd story about the SR-71 is demonstrably false. If it were true it would be very highly classified and people would not be temlling casual acquaintances about it. The very fact that the claimed sources were spewing this nonsense proves they are unreliable and can be ignored.
 
Don't be stupid. My point is quite simple. If the story quoted about the SR-71 being 50 percent faster than the available data (which wa sthe very specific statement) it would be so highly classified that all hell would break loose if somebody claimed it in public. That demonstrably has not happened so it is reasonable to assume the statement is crap. Furthermore, if it was true, those in the know would not be telling casual acquaintances about it.



Oh grow up. The whole point of this is that the absurd story about the SR-71 is demonstrably false. If it were true it would be very highly classified and people would not be temlling casual acquaintances about it. The very fact that the claimed sources were spewing this nonsense proves they are unreliable and can be ignored.

You're very serious, aren't you?
 
Back to Battleships.

It all boils down to decisions made in the design study process. For whatever reason (including those described by Friedman), the Iowas were chosen as the logical followup to the South Dakota class. The only way to get the Montanas built instead is for the Navy to decide at that time it would rather have three more 16 inch guns and a few inches more armor rather than 7-8 more knots in speed - in which case the Iowas would probably not have been built. The simple fact is that, given the eclipse of the BB, the class following the South Dakotas (Iowas or Montanas, whichever) would almost certainly be the last US BB.

If this was the Montana class, I suspect they would have been mothballed and decommissioned after WW2 much earlier than the Iowas. In the postwar era, the additional firepower and armor of the Montanas would be irrelevant and far less valuable that the Iowa's faster speed. They would also be even more expensive to operate. I strongly doubt Montana-class ships would still have been around in the 1980's to be refitted and put back in service as the Iowas were.
 
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