The Mongoose and the Crocodile: A Collaborative Oral History

New York Times, Nov. 4, 1980

Cleveland, Act II: Kennedy defeats Percy 300-238, says "I have listened, and I have returned."

"In one of the most stunning political upsets in American history, former President Robert F. Kennedy recaptured the White House after losing to President McCloskey in 1972. The former President defeated Vice President Charles H. Percy after winning California by over 300,000 votes. Percy conceded to Kennedy, saying that "what we need now is cooperation, as occurred in 1972." For his part, President McCloskey said that "our roles are reversed, and I pledge my full cooperation to the incoming Administration." Kennedy won the popular vote, 52-48, the first Democratic President to win a majority of the popular vote since Franklin D. Roosevelt. Democrats retook the House, but the Senate remains under Republican control."

"I wish to thank Americans for giving me this unique opportunity, and since I will no longer have to worry about seeking reelection, 100% of my time will be devoted to getting this country moving again. This is a time for statesmanship, not partisanship."

- President-elect Robert Kennedy addressing supporters at Faneuil Hall, Nov. 4

genusmap.php
 
Let's keep us updated...

Robert F. Kennedy (D-NY)

Attorney General: Jan. 21, 1961-Jan. 20, 1965
Secretary of Defense: Jan. 20, 1965- Dec. 22, 1968
President of the United States: Jan. 20, 1969- Jan. 20, 1973 (1), Jan. 20, 1981- Jan. 20, 1985 (2)
U.S. Senator from New York: Jan. 3, 1975- Dec. 22, 1979
 
Sounds good everybody, let's see what else I can do.

New York Times, January 25, 1982

Mikhail Suslov has died.

The General Secretary died in the Central Clinical Hospital from a heart attack, age 79

Reports suggest that Dmitry Ustinov, Defence Minister will be the new Soviet leader.
 
NBC Television Press Release, 31 August 1968:

NBC is proud to announce a new series from producer Jack Webb, set to premire on the network this fall.

"Gitmo" is a one-hour dramatic series set in the exciting world of US Marine Peacekeepers in Free Cuba. The series stars Martin Milner as Sergeant Pete Malloy, and Kent McChord as his partner Corporal Jim Reed. We will follow Malloy and Reed as they patrol the streets and villages of Cuba working to ensure the ongoing freedom of the recently liberated Cuban population, and guarding against rebel communist insurgents. Webb promises a "realistic and uplifting portrayal of our fine American fighting men who serve on the vanguard of freedom".

"Gitmo" will air Tuesday nights at 8pm, 7pm Central.
 
Excerpts from interview with [REDACTED]

Q: Many people criticize your organization as failing to predict the Bolivian Revolution and subsequent war in 1974. How do you feel about that?

A: We fucked up. Not much else to say. Most of the intelligence community in the early 1970's was looking elsewhere, mainly at Manchuria, seeing how the Sino-Soviet War would go. The people at South American desk were looking at Venezuela, Nicaragua, and even Mexico--we just didn't think that landlocked Bolivia could easily get Soviet aid. So when the Revolution occurred, our first thought was of our allies in Chile, but then the Second War of the Pacific started and shit hit the fan.

Q: How so?

A:Well, we had hoped that we could block in Bolivia with the numerous right-wing nations surrounding her. We failed to grasp the history of the area, and how willing Peru would be willing to go to reclaim lost land. And, frankly, how successful they would be in their offensives.

Q: What was your position in the debated intervention?

A: I was against it. I mean, not that my opinion mattered, but I remembered how we 'won' in Cuba, while subsequently gaining the animosity of the rest of the Americas. I didn't think that should be repeated.
 
Excerpts from interview with former President Robert Kennedy, 1988

Q: "Would you have intervened in Bolivia, if you had won in 1972?
A: "No, I would not have. When McCloskey changed the strategies from counterinsurgency to conventional warfare, that's what caused this problem. I worked whenever possible with anyone who was not a Communist: Socialists in Bolivia, Christian Democrats in Brazil and Argentina, the PRI in Mexico. McCloskey wanted a uniform or a reactionary, and that's why Latin America looks the way it does today."
Q: "When the Middle East erupted during your first term, in 1970..."
A: "I was not President in 1967."
Q: "Yes, I was criticized for Mideast policy. I have said this on numerous occasions: being an American ally does not give you carte blanche and expect us to look the other way. I could not have brokered the Dubai Treaty in 1982, had we not made clear to the Israelis that there were consequences to their actions. When I gained the personal trust of the Arab leaders, which counts for a lot in that part of the world, then they were willing to see me as an honest broker. I have always supported Israel and always will. My disputes were with the Israeli government, not the citizenry. If I hadn't cut off some of those loans after the Beirut bombings, this wouldn't have worked. King Hussein told me later that "we knew you meant business after the Beirut incident". I regret nothing.
 
Excerpts from interview with Samuel O'Malley, 2003

SAMUEL O'MALLEY: Prison in Cuba was a nightmare. Imagine being put away in a cell, all alone, and being told that this will be your world for years, maybe your whole life. It was devastating mentally more than physically. Sure, the guards weren't beating the crap out of me any more, but the hell I went through is probably worse than any beating the communists counld have laid down. Sure, it was only about a month, but for all I knew then, it seemed like more.
DAN RATHER: Did you have any idea that most of America, and even the CIA, thought you were dead?
SO: I couldn't know - they didn't let in any radio, or newspapers, not even Communist Party material. For that time, the world stopped existing outside my cell for all intents and purposes.
 
New York Times, Nov. 4, 1980

Cleveland, Act II: Kennedy defeats Percy 300-238, says "I have listened, and I have returned."

"In one of the most stunning political upsets in American history, former President Robert F. Kennedy recaptured the White House after losing to President McCloskey in 1972. The former President defeated Vice President Charles H. Percy after winning California by over 300,000 votes. Percy conceded to Kennedy, saying that "what we need now is cooperation, as occurred in 1972." For his part, President McCloskey said that "our roles are reversed, and I pledge my full cooperation to the incoming Administration." Kennedy won the popular vote, 52-48, the first Democratic President to win a majority of the popular vote since Franklin D. Roosevelt. Democrats retook the House, but the Senate remains under Republican control."

"I wish to thank Americans for giving me this unique opportunity, and since I will no longer have to worry about seeking reelection, 100% of my time will be devoted to getting this country moving again. This is a time for statesmanship, not partisanship."

- President-elect Robert Kennedy addressing supporters at Faneuil Hall, Nov. 4

genusmap.php

Let's keep us updated...

Robert F. Kennedy (D-NY)

Attorney General: Jan. 21, 1961-Jan. 20, 1965
Secretary of Defense: Jan. 20, 1965- Dec. 22, 1968
President of the United States: Jan. 20, 1969- Jan. 20, 1973 (1), Jan. 20, 1981- Jan. 20, 1985 (2)
U.S. Senator from New York: Jan. 3, 1975- Dec. 22, 1979

Sounds good everybody, let's see what else I can do.

New York Times, January 25, 1982

Mikhail Suslov has died.

The General Secretary died in the Central Clinical Hospital from a heart attack, age 79

Reports suggest that Dmitry Ustinov, Defence Minister will be the new Soviet leader.

Excerpts from interview with [REDACTED]

Q: Many people criticize your organization as failing to predict the Bolivian Revolution and subsequent war in 1974. How do you feel about that?

A: We fucked up. Not much else to say. Most of the intelligence community in the early 1970's was looking elsewhere, mainly at Manchuria, seeing how the Sino-Soviet War would go. The people at South American desk were looking at Venezuela, Nicaragua, and even Mexico--we just didn't think that landlocked Bolivia could easily get Soviet aid. So when the Revolution occurred, our first thought was of our allies in Chile, but then the Second War of the Pacific started and shit hit the fan.

Q: How so?

A:Well, we had hoped that we could block in Bolivia with the numerous right-wing nations surrounding her. We failed to grasp the history of the area, and how willing Peru would be willing to go to reclaim lost land. And, frankly, how successful they would be in their offensives.

Q: What was your position in the debated intervention?

A: I was against it. I mean, not that my opinion mattered, but I remembered how we 'won' in Cuba, while subsequently gaining the animosity of the rest of the Americas. I didn't think that should be repeated.

Excerpts from interview with former President Robert Kennedy, 1988

Q: "Would you have intervened in Bolivia, if you had won in 1972?
A: "No, I would not have. When McCloskey changed the strategies from counterinsurgency to conventional warfare, that's what caused this problem. I worked whenever possible with anyone who was not a Communist: Socialists in Bolivia, Christian Democrats in Brazil and Argentina, the PRI in Mexico. McCloskey wanted a uniform or a reactionary, and that's why Latin America looks the way it does today."
Q: "When the Middle East erupted during your first term, in 1970..."
A: "I was not President in 1967."
Q: "Yes, I was criticized for Mideast policy. I have said this on numerous occasions: being an American ally does not give you carte blanche and expect us to look the other way. I could not have brokered the Dubai Treaty in 1982, had we not made clear to the Israelis that there were consequences to their actions. When I gained the personal trust of the Arab leaders, which counts for a lot in that part of the world, then they were willing to see me as an honest broker. I have always supported Israel and always will. My disputes were with the Israeli government, not the citizenry. If I hadn't cut off some of those loans after the Beirut bombings, this wouldn't have worked. King Hussein told me later that "we knew you meant business after the Beirut incident". I regret nothing.

None of these posts make any sense. We were specifically told that our posts had to (1) relate to the war in Cuba in some way and (2) be limited to 1961-1972. These posts don't belong in this thread!
 

The Vulture

Banned
None of these posts make any sense. We were specifically told that our posts had to (1) relate to the war in Cuba in some way and (2) be limited to 1961-1972. These posts don't belong in this thread!

I don't consider it a big deal, they relate to the aftermath of the war.
 
Well, it would be fine if people bothered to research a liberal anti-war Republican and didn't build a straw-Goldwater out of him so that Camelot could last forever. :rolleyes:;)
 
Havana or bust!

On a wall near code-named Blue beach near Varadero are these words spray-painted in blue. The picture of is said to have on the homefront at the time had the similar effect that the picture of the raising of the American flag on Iwo-Jima had on WW2 America. The wall's-defamer soldier Private John Potter was killed during the first day he saw combat and unable to see the cultural icon he created. Over time the area became a memorial for the American dead of the war.

-article by the US Veteran Affairs
 

The Vulture

Banned
Yeah, I know, it's annoying when even the guy running the game doesn't care about the rules...:p

Well, given the quality of the contributions outside the appointed timeframe, I've decided that it'd be fine just to explore what this has made the world. I'd like to focus mainly on the 1962-1972 window, yeah, but a few glimpses of the future is cool.

Besides, I hate stifling people's creativity. I'd feel like I just kicked a kitten or something.
 
Bad, yes, it was bad. It was as bad as you could imagine. My father, he would say "Keep your heads down, do not take a side, whether with the communistas or the Yanquis," but that did no good. It was safer if you took a side. That way you would at least have others protecting you. By trying to stay in the middle, you were caught in the crossfire. Even he realized that after Mama was killed by a mine out in the fields. We never knew whose it was. We did not care. Instead, we gathered what little we had, and with my older brother leading the way, and my baby sister in my arms, we made our way to the beaches where we lashed together a raft with the rest of the poor souls in the middle of the fight.

We were on the water for over a week and a half. I cannot talk about it even now. The baby survived, but only because my papa would take his water rations and give them to her. He did not survive.

Eventually a Coast Guard ship found us drifting off of the coastline. They took us to one of the camps outside of Miami. Our hair was shaved, my sister was plucked from my unresisting arms, and we were herded into separate male and female dormitories. Thankfully, the nurses would let me see her every day. I did not wish for her to forget her big sister. I would look down at her waving her fists in the air and sometimes making soft cooing noises.

There were also some I recognized in the camp. Many had fought with Castro. All of them had lied about it to the camp officials in order to escape once the tide turned against them, for they knew that vengeance would be swift and sure in their local communities if the old guard came back into power. As far as I know, they laid down their arms for good, but it was interesting that Florida's Cuban community has always been a force for social progress since that time, always voting a bit to the left of the rest of the state and country.

-Dr. Ana Fernandez Garcia, Ph.D. Professor of Cuban-American Studies, University of Miami. Quoted in Miami Herald article "The Refugee Experience: Four Decades of Struggle and Hope", 7/6/2001


statichaos, your writing is beautiful and epic! hope you are doing well, wherever you are!!
 
...

”When Batista ruled we were all treated like dogs; we weren't respected as men. The casinos were run by the gangsters with Batista’s blessing , those were for the Yankees, the foreigners. Oh we could work in heaven, but were not allowed to be in heaven, not as men, not as Cubans. But, at least, we had the whorehouses.”

”Then Castro came, and he threw out the Yankee gangsters and closed their casinos. He made us feel proud to be Cubans, as men we could to stand tall. We were Cubans! That meant something then, to be a Cuban! Of course he closed the whorehouses, but that was because the new Cuba would have no whores. We were all equal, all proud, all vanguards of the new order - Comrades in the Revolution.”

”Then the Yankees came back, with their Marines and their planes, and bombs. Many of our comrades died. We weren’t so proud to be Cuban, but at least we were free, so we were told. At least it wasn’t as bad as it had been under Batista. There was food, shelter, jobs. This Kennedy, at least he made sure that the Cuban people had something. That Batista and the Yankees never did so little for the people. We could go to school, we could work for the Hilton or United Fruit. A few of the lucky ones got into ACS*. We weren’t so proud to be Cuban, but we could eat, we could live.

”I still think of the days of Castro, of the pride, of the Revolution. It was a good time. Oh well, at least the whorehouses are open again.”

- Anonymous

*ACS = American-Cuban Software Inc.


a LOT of the stuff in this thread makes for good reading.

I'm surprised my post was its first in um a year but hey.

so, yeah, President Bobby Kennedy, 1981 to apparently 1985 (inauguration to inauguration), some really fat butterflies...
 
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