Reading this leaves me with many questions:
First, why haven't the Massaliots had a civil war yet? Not a revolt, but a civil war?
Second, why haven't their competitors reformed their militaries after repeatedly losing to the Massaliots?
Third, why aren't the tribes around far-flung Massaliot colonies raiding the fuck out of them? They're the definition of easy pickings, what with having no chance of getting help before it is far too late.
Fourth, why are the Romans acting so stupid? They know they're surrounded by Greeks, yet they insist on persecuting the Greeks they rule, they repeatedly insist on allying with a broken Carthage, make no effort to reform their military after seeing its obsolescence, they make no effort to establish a proper navy, they don't expand in regions where the Massaliots can't claim to be threatened, such as Illyria and the Adriatic (or just cut out the middle man and go for Carthage, either by union or conquest), and they insist on picking hopeless fights. What gives?
 
Reading this leaves me with many questions:

Hello! Thank you for reading my ATL!

First, why haven't the Massaliots had a civil war yet? Not a revolt, but a civil war?

In 175 BC the tensions between Palaioi and Dynatoi party nearly lead to a civil war. Besides that there was another "near" civil war earlier in the timeline.

Second, why haven't their competitors reformed their militaries after repeatedly losing to the Massaliots?

Who says that they didn't adapt? I just didn't emphasised about this development(besides a few quotes).

Third, why aren't the tribes around far-flung Massaliot colonies raiding the fuck out of them? They're the definition of easy pickings, what with having no chance of getting help before it is far too late.

The Massaliot colonies did have problems on numerous occasions, with biggest the destruction of Chalkis in the Baltic.

Fourth, why are the Romans acting so stupid? They know they're surrounded by Greeks, yet they insist on persecuting the Greeks they rule, they repeatedly insist on allying with a broken Carthage, make no effort to reform their military after seeing its obsolescence, they make no effort to establish a proper navy, they don't expand in regions where the Massaliots can't claim to be threatened, such as Illyria and the Adriatic (or just cut out the middle man and go for Carthage, either by union or conquest), and they insist on picking hopeless fights.

About the Romans you can read some nice opinions/analysis in page 38 of this thread. I think my build of the Romans is a pretty doable one. As for the expansion in Illyria and Adriatic is something out of Rome capabilities/focus in this ATL.
 
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Roland did raise some good questions but I agree its far from a wank. Id say the actual historical expsansion of the romans was very similar with Massilot exspansion into Gaul being even slower and full of more setbacks then the romans in real life. After a certain point barbarian tribes arent that big of a deal to a strong new civilization, as critical mass has been reached so to speak.
 
Id say the actual historical expsansion of the romans was very similar with Massilot exspansion into Gaul being even slower and full of more setbacks then the romans in real life. After a certain point barbarian tribes arent that big of a deal to a strong new civilization, as critical mass has been reached so to speak.
Yeap i agree.
 
Actually if I didnt know it was real life history id say by the definitions of this board caesars conquest of gaul would be considered a wank lol
 
After much thought i decided that this ATL is pretty much finished. I maybe post some mini nostalgia updates from time to time but the ATL is finished. The world i created is now full of butterflies and is getting harder and harder to visualise it. Thank you all for your nice comments/critics and participation. iT WAS A GREAT JORNEY !
I will focus now to my small Athenian ATL and explore ideas for another ancient ATL.
 
After much thought i decided that this ATL is pretty much finished. I maybe post some mini nostalgia updates from time to time but the ATL is finished. The world i created is now full of butterflies and is getting harder and harder to visualise it. Thank you all for your nice comments/critics and participation. iT WAS A GREAT JORNEY !
I will focus now to my small Athenian ATL and explore ideas for another ancient ATL.

BUAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA now what am I going to doooo???!!! Why Sersor, WHY???? (cries in a corner)
 
After much thought i decided that this ATL is pretty much finished. I maybe post some mini nostalgia updates from time to time but the ATL is finished. The world i created is now full of butterflies and is getting harder and harder to visualise it. Thank you all for your nice comments/critics and participation. iT WAS A GREAT JORNEY !
I will focus now to my small Athenian ATL and explore ideas for another ancient ATL.

My heart, it is broked!

I do declare that you need to make this a mod or something for some game. Or an RP setting. It is grand.

*sniff*IMNOTCRYINGYOUARE*sniff*
 
I will miss this; its return was a bright spot. I even had a long reply to something but it basically reiterated things I've said before so I let it slide.

You might be right that it is pointless to push a divergent time line forever; obviously wonderful things await in a whole new world, but if you are confident of realism now, how long can you remain so as the TL diverges ever further? At some point one does call it quits and let the imaginations of others speculate on where else it might go.

But I'm still sad to see it end.
 
Noooo this was actually an interesting atl that examined what we all should be examining those forgotten cultures that have so much potential. Pleeeeease keep it going at least until the inevitable fall of the massilot empire.... Ending it now is sort of like ending the history of rome just as augustus becomes emperor...
 
I even had a long reply to something but it basically reiterated things I've said before so I let it slide.

Ahh i would love to see a last analysis by you!

You might be right that it is pointless to push a divergent time line forever; obviously wonderful things await in a whole new world, but if you are confident of realism now, how long can you remain so as the TL diverges ever further? At some point one does call it quits and let the imaginations of others speculate on where else it might go.
Yes exactly.Its better let the imagination of everyone to speculate on where else it might go. As for me, i could see(as regarding the league) a major civil war and a war with ptolemaic empire in the future. In general the migrations of the teutones and the northen tribes is about to kick. The tech is also starting to run way faster than OTL. I could see a industrial revolution within 300 years ?

But I'm still sad to see it end.

Although the ATl is finished, ill try to post 1-2 small mini tribute updates until the end of the year.
Besides that i am planning to make another late antiquity ATL in the future.
 
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Noooo this was actually an interesting atl that examined what we all should be examining those forgotten cultures that have so much potential. Pleeeeease keep it going at least until the inevitable fall of the massilot empire.... Ending it now is sort of like ending the history of rome just as augustus becomes emperor...

Thank you for interest!
 

Skallagrim

Banned
I have greatly enjoyed this timeline. In the firm conviction that any timeline should be continued for exactly as long as its author feels happy and confident in doing so, I'm simply very glad we got that recent mega-update to cap things off. There are countless interesting ways in which this world could develop further, and many here have shared their views on that already. I doesn't need to be written out; we can use our imagination, after all. This whole TL certainly sparked it in a lot of us.

That said, I'll be happy to see any vignette in the future, and I'll be looking forward to any future TL of yours, @Sersor.
 
I have greatly enjoyed this timeline. In the firm conviction that any timeline should be continued for exactly as long as its author feels happy and confident in doing so, I'm simply very glad we got that recent mega-update to cap things off. There are countless interesting ways in which this world could develop further, and many here have shared their views on that already. I doesn't need to be written out; we can use our imagination, after all. This whole TL certainly sparked it in a lot of us.

Thank you for your kind words @Skallagrim. It was a great pleasure to read your great analysis/posts!

That said, I'll be happy to see any vignette in the future, and I'll be looking forward to any future TL of yours, @Sersor.

For sure ill post small tributes in the future! Ill make a new ATL in the future for sure!
 
South East Asia 50 BC update!
Ok ok, This Atl is finished but i promised some tribute updates from time to time :D

So here is the South East Asia update of 50 BC!


50 BC
South East Asia


Eschatia:
Over the following decades(since last update 150 BC), Eschatian sailors continued to explore the coasts and islands of South East Asia, establishing forts/trade hubs as they went. By 50 BC, a string of naval outposts connected Chrysoupoli to Eschatia and thus with the Middle East, India,Massalia and Egypt. This commercial network and trade together with the numerous gold mines in Chrisoupolis region had a substantial positive impact on the Eschatian economic growth. In the great market of Eschatia you could find silk from China,Pepper from South East Asia,olive oil from Crete,Wine from Massalia and Kola nuts from West Africa. Eschatia population reached 100000 by 60 BC. Although a typical hellenistic polis, the population was a blend of Greeks-Hellenised Arabians and local indian population. Protagoras III King of Eschatia was a big supporter of a new sect, blend of Buddhism and Arithmistes*
Hellenistic culture influenced the newly found/conquered territories, and merged with native traditions. This influence extended to the small kingdoms/tribes of Southeast Asia, where contact led to trade and diplomacy.

*Arithmistes/Αριθμηστς(sect in Mesopotamia)
This sect/religion, led by the teacher Erasmos, is known for its fascination with numerology and letter theory. This theory of numbers was derived from the Pythagoreans. Arithmistes found significance in the numerical equivalents of words (in Greek, every letter has a numerical value).
Arithmistes used numerology to explain the nature of god. Erasmos also taught of 30 divine beings, called Aeons, derived from the fact that 1+2+3+4+5+7+8 = 30, with the “6” omitted, because it is not a letter of the usual Greek alphabet (“8” represents the “Ogdoad,” the eight primary Aeons). The sect quickly become popular between Greeks and Persians in Mesopotamia and South West Persia.


Culture

A rather small museum“university" was built in Eschatia in 70 BC. Small private libraries were also common within the elite.

Architecture:

A blend of the Massalian order* and Indian architecture, started to form the last years.

* The Massalian Order:
The Massalian Order although have its origin in Ionic order, it was heavily influenced from the Corinthian order and was initially of much the same style and proportion,but around 190-180 BC added a number of refinements and decorative details inspired mostly from Gaul artefacts.

Art:
Tessera mosaic were common in wealthiest homes.

Theatre:
The primary Hellenistic theatrical form of the era was the new tragedy and the classic play of Brenotas* “Cursed by Sucellos” was quite popular in Eschatia.

*Brenotas, Greek : Βρεντας (c. 198 – c. 143 BC) a third generation hellenised Gaul from Nemessos, was a tragedian, that followed Euripides “realistic” style of tragedies. He was born in Nemessos around198 BC, with parents Villu(mother) and Dannotalos(father), a retailer who lived in a village near Nemessos. Upon the receipt of a druid oracle saying that his son was fated to win "crowns of victory", Dannotalos insisted that the boy should train for a career in military. He served for a short time as scout and as a torch-bearer at several rites of Epona . His education was not confined to military/athletics: he also studied painting and philosophy. He had two disastrous marriages and both his wives were unfaithful. Afterwards he quitted his work as head of a library in Nemessos and became a “recluse”, making a home for himself in a forest deep inside Aedui lands After a while fascinated by the local myths and stories he built a small library and started to document them. Eventually after some years he returned to Nemossos.

Religion:

The Eschatians continued more or less to worship the same gods with the same sacrifices, dedications, and festivals as in the past. Religious freedom was tolerated and the dominant religions/dogmas was Dodekatheism and various versions of Buddhism blended with local deities. .Greek influences reached the South East Asia as early as 100 BC. Never the less most of
indigenous native beliefs are still animism,shamanism as well ancestral worship.


JoXgs4w.jpg


PS:Since i have some more free days ill make another small local update from another region. What you want? No Massalia i am afraid since its the main theme and need lots of analysis and i cant commit to that atm.
 
PS:Since i have some more free days ill make another small local update from another region. What you want? No Massalia i am afraid since its the main theme and need lots of analysis and i cant commit to that atm.
Now you should make Chrysoupolis it's own city-state, and have it colonize Australia. :winkytongue:
 
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