To revenge his father death.
Yes Carthage is in the hole. I liked Barcid kingdom also
Trying to regroup.
The Massaliot league. A Hellenistic period Massalia Timeline
- Thread starter Sersor
- Start date
Yes Carthage is in the hole. I liked Barcid kingdom also
Trying to regroup.
To revenge his father death.
Yes Carthage is in the hole. I liked Barcid kingdom also
Trying to regroup.
I would think burning Argos would be enough for the guy.
I also see the Greco-Bactrian Kingdom has entered the game, that's good.
How does Seleucid see the growth of the Greek nations?
Funny, I was just thinking the Barcid kingdom could be a magnificent piece of plausible deniability! OTL did not the Barcids expand Iberian holdings on behalf of Carthage in this time frame, and did they not in the end render more service to their queen city? Hannibal et al are doing exactly what they did OTL and I believe OTL too there there was some bad blood between them and those who dominated the mother city, and the Barcids were pretty close to being exiles too.
Carthage has had some harsh peace terms imposed on it. The question of whether or not these treaty points apply at all to some rouge operation that ostensibly denies its allegiance to Carthage is a vexed one! Will the Massaliotes show up at Hannibal's ports in Iberia or North Africa and demand the share of the tribute that his territories, of the remnant allotted to Carthage by the treaty, would provide a fair share out of? What about the fact that now all of a sudden it is not Carthage but the Baracids who control the Gate of Hercules? Can't all the Punic ships currently operating in Atlantic waters suddenly claim to be Barcid rather than Carthaginian, therefore immune to the stipulation they must withdraw in favor of Massaliote traders. As I've suggested before, I rather think most of the northern trader peoples would prefer to stick with the devil they know.
Massalia can present demands and ultimata all she wants to, but down in the south of Iberia, either they put up, with an expedition of sufficient magnitude to annex Iberia, or shut up if they can't raise such an army.
Will Ptolemy send any contingents of his soldiers west just to honor the alliance on a point or three that don't concern them directly in any way? Alexander of Epirus might at that, just for practice and glory if not out of love for his allies. But almost certainly, it is Massalia and her minion cities that must do most of the work of either conquering all of Punic Iberia or bringing the Baracides to heel.
The ability of the Carthaginians to wage a Second Punic War is substantially less than OTL.There's likely really bad blood between the Barcids and the folks back in Carthage.They will likely demand Carthage but not the Barcids to pay the indemnity,but in terms of trading rights,the Massaliots will likely force trade terms upon the Barcids through the threat of force.Highly doubt the Barcids are capable of rejecting it at this point.The Carthaginian navy was badly mauled in the last war and the Barcids likely don't have a large navy either.Their trade ships are extremely vulnerable to raids by the Massaliot navy.Really,trying to bully the Barcids into submission isn't hard.
The Massaliots will encourage the breakup of the Carthaginian Empire,but would be strict towards the Barcids as well.
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Greco-buddhism sounds really interesting.
Seleucid rivals are Ptolemaic empire and Mauryan empire.
Yes! Thats pretty much what happened in OTL. I just added a little twist since they lost in the mercenary war
Good point. I think the Triandria alliance will break up at some point. What do you think?
I think it would, but the thing is, who will stay loyal to who? Will Massalia, Syracues, and Epirus stay friends? Could Massalia form a sort of alliance with the Barcid kingdom?
Haha, true so true! That's why i don't see Triandria Alliance hold much longer.
Well I would hope that, after the members of the Triandria Alliance see the flickeness of it, they should try to reach a consensus, mainly in regards to their adjacent territories (like in Sicily) that can create tension. Maybe giving all of Sicily (with the exception of maybe cities as naval bases) to a fourth power (like Syracuse) could be beneficial to decrease tensions, mainly in the short term. But as the architects of the alliance start to die, it seems easy for it to break under pressure.
I like this. I what the Alliance to stay together for some time, but it would break eventually.
It would be cool if the Barcids (as the more honest of the Carthaginians) could survive just to be great with Hasdrubal, Hamilcar and Hannibal, then being defeated after an aristocratic revolution, a weak successor or an Iberian revolt. Massalia could deal with them (or their successor) later on.
Also Epirus could expand into Illyria as well, it is a good option for them to strengthen their hold on the Adratic Sea. Also the Kingdom of the Bosphorus could turn into or be absorbed by a third power (the first is Triandria Alliance, the second is all others). The Gauls could also enter the fray as the third/fourth power. There are so many possibilities! I wish that Fortune herself blesses your endeavors Sersor.
Also Epirus could expand into Illyria as well, it is a good option for them to strengthen their hold on the Adratic Sea. Also the Kingdom of the Bosphorus could turn into or be absorbed by a third power (the first is Triandria Alliance, the second is all others). The Gauls could also enter the fray as the third/fourth power. There are so many possibilities! I wish that Fortune herself blesses your endeavors Sersor.
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Um, what Massaliot navy--in the Atlantic?
They are learning to make ships there and to sail them. The Punics have been at it for hundreds of years. The Carthaginian traders at large in the northlands probably left before the war started and the first they'll hear of it would be some Massaliot yelling at them to follow a treaty they've never heard of.
Baracid Iberia spans the Strait of Gibraltar. The Massaliot navy can come down there and unblock the strait. Then they are sailing on unfamiliar Atlantic waters, where Carthaginian resources are scattered all up and down the European coast.
And if the Carthaginians want to build a new, Atlantic, navy, they can perhaps rely on friendly Celts or other trading partners to help build and man it.
I agree, Massalia probably is on the inside track, long term. But still coming from behind in the north, and the game is not over yet. Especially if the Carthaginians are better at making friends with people with strange customs than the Massaliotes are, the latter might be in for an unexpected thrashing.
They are learning to make ships there and to sail them. The Punics have been at it for hundreds of years. The Carthaginian traders at large in the northlands probably left before the war started and the first they'll hear of it would be some Massaliot yelling at them to follow a treaty they've never heard of.
Baracid Iberia spans the Strait of Gibraltar. The Massaliot navy can come down there and unblock the strait. Then they are sailing on unfamiliar Atlantic waters, where Carthaginian resources are scattered all up and down the European coast.
And if the Carthaginians want to build a new, Atlantic, navy, they can perhaps rely on friendly Celts or other trading partners to help build and man it.
I agree, Massalia probably is on the inside track, long term. But still coming from behind in the north, and the game is not over yet. Especially if the Carthaginians are better at making friends with people with strange customs than the Massaliotes are, the latter might be in for an unexpected thrashing.