The Map Thread for Turtledove's Great War/Southern Victory series
- Thread starter Thande
- Start date
The US in OTL only grabbed Puerto Rico at the last minute so why not show a bit of compassion for Spain in this TL?
The southern half of lower penninsula Michigan, with most of the people, stays in the US and roughly one-third of Minnesota goes to Canada. Also the CSA only gets the southern half of Arizona and New Mexico and the southern quarter of California. Annexing large numbers of Unionists who are weeks away from any kind of contact is just asking for trouble. Once the CSA has the southern part Mexico awaits...
What's this about Amerigo's timeline involving Mahan and a large US navy?
The southern half of lower penninsula Michigan, with most of the people, stays in the US and roughly one-third of Minnesota goes to Canada. Also the CSA only gets the southern half of Arizona and New Mexico and the southern quarter of California. Annexing large numbers of Unionists who are weeks away from any kind of contact is just asking for trouble. Once the CSA has the southern part Mexico awaits...
What's this about Amerigo's timeline involving Mahan and a large US navy?
Post-Second Great War map based on Thande's map
This is a map of what might happen after the Second Great War. I think the US will want to get out of Canada for the most part. I think there will be a free Cuba, a free reduced Canada, an African-American republic, Quebec, and a rump Republic of Texas. This map is based on Thande's map. Thande, if you disagree with my usage, I will unpost.
This is a map of what might happen after the Second Great War. I think the US will want to get out of Canada for the most part. I think there will be a free Cuba, a free reduced Canada, an African-American republic, Quebec, and a rump Republic of Texas. This map is based on Thande's map. Thande, if you disagree with my usage, I will unpost.
Only problem with the map is that I don't think Texas will be independent. Not after all the camps they built there.
True. I'd Expect that the Southern States would be Organized in a way that is politicaly acceptable to the Socialists (Fewest States Possible) so that the Democrats dont gain total control of the Senate.
Also I could see Utah becomeing a sort of Commonwealth like the Phillipenes were in OTL.
Thande
Donor
This is a map of what might happen after the Second Great War. I think the US will want to get out of Canada for the most part. I think there will be a free Cuba, a free reduced Canada, an African-American republic, Quebec, and a rump Republic of Texas. This map is based on Thande's map. Thande, if you disagree with my usage, I will unpost.
You're free to use my base maps on this site: if anyone wants to use them on any other, they can do so but I would appreciate being credited.
Interesting ideas there btw.
Burton K Wheeler
Moderator
This is a map of what might happen after the Second Great War. I think the US will want to get out of Canada for the most part. I think there will be a free Cuba, a free reduced Canada, an African-American republic, Quebec, and a rump Republic of Texas. This map is based on Thande's map. Thande, if you disagree with my usage, I will unpost.
[NITPICK]Flipped Minnesota and Wisconsin.[/NITPICK]
Nitpicks aside, that's very good work.
Burton K Wheeler
Moderator
I typed 'Minnesota', I meant Michigan. I must now commit seppuku to restore my honor.
Sorry to nitpick here, but you left out Kansas Thande! It became a state in January of 1861. Nevada didn't become a state until 1864 so that is rightfully not a state in your 1863 map. New Mexico and Arizona were split in February, 1863. I added some other territorial borders too.This map shows the state of play in 1863 upon the Confederacy gaining independence. I've left out the Canadian internal borders because I can't find a reference for what they were.
By the way, sorry for not responding when everyone posted comments on a map I made back in August. I was getting married or something
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Thande
Donor
Sorry to nitpick here, but you left out Kansas Thande! It became a state in January of 1861. Nevada didn't become a state until 1864 so that is rightfully not a state in your 1863 map. New Mexico and Arizona were split in February, 1863. I added some other territorial borders too.
By the way, sorry for not responding when everyone posted comments on a map I made back in August. I was getting married or something
That's because I was evidently working from an inaccurate base map.
Weird. Turtledove must have overlooked the fact that the two territories were split.
And time for another quibble of mine - didn't the Confederacy claim the southern parts of AZ and NM? I mean, they have a reenactment of the battle at Picacho Peak here in AZ every year. Wouldn't they have asked to hold on to the southern parts of those two territories?
Then again, I guess it would have rendered the need to annex Sonora and Chihuahua moot. Well, they might have negotiated the purchase of the narrow strip of land between Yuma and the Gulf of California - I figure if the CS could negotiate the purchase of two whole states in HT's TL, a narrow piece of one should be no problem.
Hmm... I could probably make a TL out of this...
And time for another quibble of mine - didn't the Confederacy claim the southern parts of AZ and NM? I mean, they have a reenactment of the battle at Picacho Peak here in AZ every year. Wouldn't they have asked to hold on to the southern parts of those two territories?
Then again, I guess it would have rendered the need to annex Sonora and Chihuahua moot. Well, they might have negotiated the purchase of the narrow strip of land between Yuma and the Gulf of California - I figure if the CS could negotiate the purchase of two whole states in HT's TL, a narrow piece of one should be no problem.
Hmm... I could probably make a TL out of this...
Actually, I wondered the same thing. As it turns out, it's mentioned in the first few pages of How Few Remain that the Confederate border would have extended into New Mexico if it weren't for the fact the invasion force was unsupported. Basically, Turtledove only gave the CSA what territory they could hold at the time of the cease-fire.
Strange. Didn't the CSA have the upper hand in negotiations, though? With the UK and France behind them, they could have demanded the territories.
It kinda bothers me that Turtledove re-combined AZ and NM.
It kinda bothers me that Turtledove re-combined AZ and NM.
You have Prince Edward Island wrong. It's on Anticosti Island, which is part of Quebec. PEI is the island southwards.
As for the geography of Canada at the beginning of the American Civil War:
The Maritime Provinces and Newfoundland have the same names and boundaries as present.
The Province of Canada comprises of southern Quebec and southern Ontario. (some notes: It was formed in 1840, by the recommendations of Durham report, to allow the assimilation of the French Canadians. By this time, there was political deadlock, which participated in the formation of the Dominion of Canada)
The entire Hudson's Bay watershed is part of Rupert's Land, and owned by the Hudson's Bay Company.
Vancouver Island and New Caledonia (what now BC) are separate colonies on the West Coast.
The Northwest Territories are whatever drains into the Arctic.
Here's a map: http://mercator.geog.utoronto.ca/hacddp/bound/bound_bnd/frame_BND.htm
I have seen all the map in the begining of this thread and tried to do a world map I think I got it right.