The Map Thread for Turtledove's Great War/Southern Victory series
- Thread starter Thande
- Start date
Thande
Donor
Wendell said:
I can't spell Massachusetts...and you should be glad that I even remembered Kansas (I always forget Kansas and Arkansas when listing US states)...I used the border off the BAM, which may be wrong...I'll look into it.
Pisces said:
All Turtledove says is that the CSA "persuaded" Cuba away from Spain sometime between 1863 and 1881. That could mean purchase or invasion. I agree that it's annoying that Puerto Rico isn't mentioned, although I suspect it's not still part of Spain and the CSA is the only real alternative.
Belgian was German occupied, and so one would assume, the Congo would go with it.
One might suspect that Spain might hold Puerto Rico. Japan took her Pacific possessions, but after 1881, I doubt the CSA could get more ex-Spanish colonies.
I have a reviewers copy of The Grapple (oh ebay
). Do one of the mapmakers want a fighting front description? I don't see a "spoiler" tag on this forum.
One might suspect that Spain might hold Puerto Rico. Japan took her Pacific possessions, but after 1881, I doubt the CSA could get more ex-Spanish colonies.
I have a reviewers copy of The Grapple (oh ebay
). Do one of the mapmakers want a fighting front description? I don't see a "spoiler" tag on this forum.
Thande
Donor
I wasn't aware of that. Thanks.gemini83 said:
I had assumed that the CSA simply took all of Spain's Caribbean colonies whenever it was between 1863 and 1881, but they tended to just refer to them as 'Cuba' as it was the largest island. Puerto Rico might be either included in the State of Cuba, or perhaps a territory.
Of course, you may be right and it may still be Spanish, but given that Spain has had a civil war and revolution in the 1930s...
gemini83 said:Belgian was German occupied, and so one would assume, the Congo would go with it.
One might suspect that Spain might hold Puerto Rico. Japan took her Pacific possessions, but after 1881, I doubt the CSA could get more ex-Spanish colonies.
I have a reviewers copy of The Grapple (oh ebay
But wouldn't britain try to oppose that? In OTL, all of the german colonies except for East Africa fell to the British, the germans would have been more concerned about neogiating them back, not acquiring new ones.
NomadicSky
Banned
my own take of an Ah-within-Ah map which depicts North American before and after an Allied Powers victory in WW1 (yes I did rip off Thande's idea)
Rather than take so much of the US (wouldn't that double Canada's population)
I just created the province of Cascadia, gave Canada Michigan, and Maine
I think the CSA would rather have Southern California than let Mexico annex it
so part of Nevada goes too the Confederate state of South California and part of Missouri is under occupation (not necessarily annexation)
Rather than take so much of the US (wouldn't that double Canada's population)
I just created the province of Cascadia, gave Canada Michigan, and Maine
I think the CSA would rather have Southern California than let Mexico annex it
so part of Nevada goes too the Confederate state of South California and part of Missouri is under occupation (not necessarily annexation)
There is a reference to the general unpleasantness of the German Congo in The Grapple.
It's too hard to map the fronts sadly. Aside from not provinding enough detail in Europe, the only really clear front is the main U.S advance. Of course North America in 1945 is likely to look like our own without Canada, with the U.S occupying everything from Sonora north, including Baja California and maybe even Alaska.
It's too hard to map the fronts sadly. Aside from not provinding enough detail in Europe, the only really clear front is the main U.S advance. Of course North America in 1945 is likely to look like our own without Canada, with the U.S occupying everything from Sonora north, including Baja California and maybe even Alaska.
The United States had President Mahan in the late 19th century. He prevented the construction of a Confederate canal and is one of the main reasons the US Navy is close to the size it was in OTL, instead of smaller, as it should've been with an emphasis on the army.
Highlander
Banned
The US must be bad shape after a loss like that.
I imagine the conditions would be enough to form something like Nazi Germany.
I imagine the conditions would be enough to form something like Nazi Germany.
Is war all there is?
I was impressed at how the war was interrupted to watch the World Cup and was wondering as much as we love our sports they would also still be played in our alt history. Has anybody thought about the evolution of pro and college football, basketball and baseball in the Turtledove world of the USA and the CSA (Super Bowl - the champions of the USFL vs. the CSFL ?). We probably need another thread but we could have lots of fun with logos, unis, helmets and etc.
I was impressed at how the war was interrupted to watch the World Cup and was wondering as much as we love our sports they would also still be played in our alt history. Has anybody thought about the evolution of pro and college football, basketball and baseball in the Turtledove world of the USA and the CSA (Super Bowl - the champions of the USFL vs. the CSFL ?). We probably need another thread but we could have lots of fun with logos, unis, helmets and etc.
Thande
Donor
The most obvious thing is that baseball is not popular outside New England in the Southern Victory world (as Turtledove has mentioned a few times, including the fact that when Chester Martin is attacked with a baseball bat in California while striking, he takes a moment to recognise what it is). I assume this is because it was popularised in OTL by New England regiments mixing with other Northern troops (I've also read that the Americans still played cricket then, alongside baseball). And with the ACW being much shorter, it never catches on.EPJr said:I was impressed at how the war was interrupted to watch the World Cup and was wondering as much as we love our sports they would also still be played in our alt history. Has anybody thought about the evolution of pro and college football, basketball and baseball in the Turtledove world of the USA and the CSA (Super Bowl - the champions of the USFL vs. the CSFL ?). We probably need another thread but we could have lots of fun with logos, unis, helmets and etc.
American football is the biggest sport in Turtledove's USA and CSA, though before the Great War the CS had different rules (something to do with allowing forward passing). However after the Great War they adopted the US rules - I think this was as part of the whole 'we're becoming the Yankees' little brown cousins' thing, anger against which helped get Featherston into power.
I didn't read Turtledove's books yet (I wish), but if some guys that I asked are not wrong the CS purchase of Cuba was in the 1870s. Between 1840 and 1890 the Americans were only interested in Cuba, not Puerto Rico, and they offer many times to buy the island from Spain. It's possible that the purchase of Cuba was the result of an aggressive CS campaign in 1873-1874; at this time Spain was a chaotic republic fighting 2 different wars in her soil (southern cantonalist rebellion plus northern carlist monarchists), very "influenced" by Britain and France interests. In that case I suppose that the Spanish Republican government sold Cuba to the CS in exchange for military supplements, and the operation was favoured by the British and French in order to make a closer alliance with the CS.
What about Puerto Rico? Well, I say again that the CS probably were only interested in Cuba. I also remember a mention to Spanish mediation in the exchange of Prisoners of War between the CS and the US after the Great War. Yeah, Spain was neutral in OTL Great War and did that in Europe. But, I can't imagine why the CS and US should go to the Iberian Peninsula to made a POW exchange, instead of choose another neutral American country like Colombia or Venezuela to do that.
However, the idea sounds more logical if we think that Puerto Rico is still Spanish in Turtledove's books. In that case, the peace talks and POW exchange could be in Puerto Rico, not far from North America.
What about Puerto Rico? Well, I say again that the CS probably were only interested in Cuba. I also remember a mention to Spanish mediation in the exchange of Prisoners of War between the CS and the US after the Great War. Yeah, Spain was neutral in OTL Great War and did that in Europe. But, I can't imagine why the CS and US should go to the Iberian Peninsula to made a POW exchange, instead of choose another neutral American country like Colombia or Venezuela to do that.
However, the idea sounds more logical if we think that Puerto Rico is still Spanish in Turtledove's books. In that case, the peace talks and POW exchange could be in Puerto Rico, not far from North America.