The many sons of Isabella and Ferdinand

IOTL Isabella I of Castile and Ferdinand II of Aragon had five children who survived to adulthood, four of them were daughters and just one a son (the unlucky John, Prince of Asturias).

So, I was playing with this idea: WI the situation had been the inverse, and the couple has four sons and only one daughter? Just to make it easier for reference, I'll give some names: John (replacing the IOTL Isabella, Queen of Portugal ), Isabella (instead of John, Prince of Asturias), Peter (Joanna of Castile), Alfonso (Maria, Queen of Portugal) and Ferdinand (Catherine, Queen of England).

So, what could happen under this situation. I assume that their only daughter would be married to a Portuguese royal, given the political needs of the time and the fact that IOTL Isabella was twice sent to Portugal and later her sister was also queen there. Of course, no Habsburg inheritance is a given, but some sort of alliance with them is still likely.

I assume that at least one of their sons would be educated to have a religious life, but could the Trastamara domains be divided again in order to give them crowns (as the eldest receiving Castile, other Aragon, perhaps one of them Sicily)?

And who could be the alternate brides for Philip the Handsome and prince Arthur (and probably later Henry VIII)?
 
Fernando's bastard son Alonso already was the Archbishop of Zaragoza so would another also go into a religious career?

One might marry Margaret Tudor (1489-1541) in an Tudor-Trastamara Union, the one that was in Catherine's position. Though really I'm just speculating.
 
Dividing the realms doesn't seem like something Isabella and Ferdinand would want, but the Aragonese and Castillian cortes (parliament) could like the idea.

Giving away the Italian kingdoms Sicily (Trinacria), Naples (Sicily) and maybe Sardinia could work, but that won't be popular in Aragon. However this certainly is a logic option in case of a three way division; and given the French Neapolitan claim the most likely bride for the 'Italian' Trastamara is a French princess.

Regarding a bride for Phillip the Handsome, it could be a candidate, who will improve the Habsburg claim on Bohemia and Hungary or an English princess or Anne of Brittany for an alliance against France or a French princess to improve the relations with France or a candidate from Poland-Lithuania, other kingdoms and maybe even some of the more important powers in the HRE.

Maybe Arthur marries Margaret of Austria (Phillip's younger sister).
 
Last edited:
Regarding a bride for Phillip the Handsome, it could be a candidate, who will improve the Habsburg claim on Bohemia and Hungary or an English princess or Anne of Brittany for an alliance against France or a French princess to improve the relations with France or a candidate from Poland-Lithuania, other kingdoms and maybe even some of the more important powers in the HRE.

Maybe Arthur marries Margaret of Austria (Phillip's younger sister).

I think Margaret would be too old for Arthur (she was born in 1480, he in 1486). She would probably be already married when Henry VII finally decides for a bride to his heir. And I'm not sure if a Tudor princess would be seen as a good candidate for her brother Philip. Maybe he could marry a sister of Ladislaus II of Bohemia and Hungary (Barbara seems to be a good candidate).

About Margaret, maybe she would still be married to Isabella and Ferdinand's eldest son. After all, the anti-French alliance would still make sense ITTL. And interesting enough, there would be no royal French princesses avalaible to marry the Trastamara princes in the period between 1485 and 1505. So we would need to find brides for them somewhere else.
 
I really like Anne of Brittany for Philip the Handsome as kind of history repeating itself and I think Maximilian would have appreciated that fact. A Habsburg marrying the heiress to Territories-France-Wanted and last scion of her family, wealthiest woman in Europe, and a woman who was slightly older than her husband.
 
I really like Anne of Brittany for Philip the Handsome as kind of history repeating itself and I think Maximilian would have appreciated that fact. A Habsburg marrying the heiress to Territories-France-Wanted and last scion of her family, wealthiest woman in Europe, and a woman who was slightly older than her husband.

I think the chance of that happening depends more on Charles VIII (or Louis XII, if you think of a later marriage) deciding not to marry her than any effort that Maximilian could try in order to achieve that.
 
I think the chance of that happening depends more on Charles VIII (or Louis XII, if you think of a later marriage) deciding not to marry her than any effort that Maximilian could try in order to achieve that.
Ehhh, I mean Maximilian would certainly have to be willing to fight the French over it. IOTL Anne first married Maximilian by proxy without Charles' consent, but Maximilian wouldn't defend the marriage. Perhaps without the prospect of Iberian relatives Maximilian seeks to marry Philip off earlier and is willing to back his bid up. Or perhaps Francis II seeks out Maximilian, knowing that his Ally has little other place to look. I guess in part I'm skeptical of Barbara, because I think her marriage IOTL was the hate part of the Habsburg-Jagiellon Love-Hate relationship (wikipedia seems to confirm, but...).
 
So, we are basing ourselves on the fact Isabella of Castille and Ferdinand II of Aragon have four sons and one daughter instead of the contrary.

Basically, in this scenario, we would have

1.John, Prince of Asturias - Born in 1470. Since his female counterpart died in childbirth, he obviously won't die in 1498. Meaning he is likely to become John III of Spain, by inheriting Castille in 1506 then Aragon in 1516.
I could see him marry a Hapsburg for an ATL anti-French alliance. Second choice would be a Tudor Princess, be it Margaret of Mary (both were available at the time).
2.Isabella of Aragon - Born in 1478. Her male counterpart died at 19 from Tuberculosis apparently. My guess is that she would probably become the wife of Manuel I of Portugal given the Portuguese policy which was looking for a unified Iberia. Plus, two of the four OTL daughters of Isabella and Ferdinand wedded Manuel I (Isabella and Maria).
3.Peter of Castille - Born in 1479. His female counterpart died in 1555.
4.Alfonso of Aragon - Borin 1482. His female counterpart died in 1517.
5.Ferdinand of Aragon - Born in 1485. His female counterpart died in 1536.

Don't really know what could become of the three cadet son. Dividing Spain into Castille and Aragon once again is probably out of question. I think it was part of what Isabella and Ferdinand wished to accomplish.
Dividing the Aragonese Mediterannean Empire wouldn't go well from what I understood, though it could be a possibility with Peter having Naples, Alfonso Sicily and Ferdinand Sardinia or something like that.
What are the available ruling princesses of the time? I think Italy would be a good place to look as the Spanish have interests there (Naples, Sicily, Sardinia are under the Spanish crown after all).

Questions that arise are :
-Possible wives for John III of Spain. Margaret of Austria seems a likely scenario since she was married to the OTL male-countepart of his ATL-younger sister in this scenario.
-Possible brides for Philip the Handsome. Possibility of a double marriage with the Aviz-Trastamara is probably low, since Portugal plays a huge part in that equation. The case of Anne of Britanny was mentionned, but I don't think Maximilian was really wanting that marriage... Complication is a War with France (since Charles VIII would have this word) and the fact the marriage would have to happen before 1491 (Charles VIII's official marriage to Anne). After that date, it's surely too late (Charles had asked his successor to marry Anne if he hadn't any sons with her in his will). As for other wives, I don't really know.
-Possible wives for Artur Tudor (which can also mean possible first wife of Henry VIII if things go OTL). A French princess could be a solution to secure peace, a Hapsburg for an Anti-French alliance.
-Possible wives for Manuel I. I mentionned the ATL only daughter of Ferdinand and Isabella earlier, but if she suffers the same fate as her OTL male counterpart, there could be need for a replacement. An English princess seems a good option given the Anglo-Portuguese relationship.
 
Dividing the realms doesn't seem like something Isabella and Ferdinand would want, but the Aragonese and Castillian cortes (parliament) could like the idea.

Giving away the Italian kingdoms Sicily (Trinacria), Naples (Sicily) and maybe Sardinia could work, but that won't be popular in Aragon. However this certainly is a logic option in case of a three way division; and given the French Neapolitan claim the most likely bride for the 'Italian' Trastamara is a French princess.

You're right. That would cause uproar in Aragon. Aragon was a rich state precisely because it had strong mercantile interests across the Mediterranean. If those get separated from Aragon, it will lose a whackload of income every year and really struggle for money - and Castile wasn't exactly rich in this period. Despite having a population something like 5 times as large, Castile's economy was about 1/3 or so the size of Aragon's. This would really hurt the Spanish economy, and it would massively anger the Aragonese. It's a bit like suggesting that the British Empire of the 18th-19th centuries might give away the whole of India in a dowry.
 
Just a question: how likely is to have Henry VII negotiating with Maximilian to marry Philip to Elizabeth of York's sister, Anne ? Apparently she and Philip had being promised to each other before - of course, it was Edward IV who tried this union, I'm not sure if Henry VII would have the same interest.
 
In OTL Ferdinand II of Aragon changed his mind about the union of the Aragonese and Castilian crowns after the death of his wife Isabella of Castile.
He did even remarried and for a short period of time had a heir to the Aragonese crown.
In here he also could change his mind and chose one of the younger sons to get the Aragonese crown.
 
In OTL Ferdinand II of Aragon changed his mind about the union of the Aragonese and Castilian crowns after the death of his wife Isabella of Castile.
He did even remarried and for a short period of time had a heir to the Aragonese crown.
In here he also could change his mind and chose one of the younger sons to get the Aragonese crown.

I think he did it IOTL because he didn't like hi grandson Charles V, who was considered "too Dutch". But as here his heir would be his own son I think that is less likely that Ferdinand would want it (unless there is too much pressure from the Aragonese and/or Castilian Cortes).
 
Yes, he didn't like his son in law.
But there was, and still is, also a strong feeling for an independent state.
 
IIRC both were true, Ferdinand really didn't like Philip the Fair and he thought that Charles V was too 'Burgundian/Dutch' (just as Charles V's son Philip II was later considered to be too Spanish in the Burgundian Habsburg Netherlands).
Ferdinand preferred his other Habsburg grandson and namesake Ferdinand (who would inherit Austria and (by marriage) Bohemia and Hungary and would ultimately succeed his brother as the Holy Roman Emperor), who was born and raised in the Spanish kingdoms.
 
It is absolutely impossible for Isabel and Fernando allow to share their kingdoms. Fernando fought several wars to unite under his scepter all territories of the dynasty Trastamara, because he always considered himself the true king of Naples, not the branch from the bastard son of Alfonso V of Aragon.

In addition, more realistic, one should bear in mind that Trastamara men, the vast majority were men of ill health, quite likely to suffer from diseases that eventually brought them to death (an exception was both Ferdinand and his father, King John II of Aragon).

Therefore, if it had been that way, do not surprise me that four children die without legitimate offspring and the throne of the Catholic Monarchs come into their only daughter or their descendants, which in turn would be the heirs to the throne luso .

However, it should also be noted that the Catholic Monarchs had six children (4 women and 2 men), of which only one did not survive childhood, the youngest son, born in 1488 and named Pedro.
 
Top