The Mandala Stands Strong: An Ancient Timeline.

[Brahman]

Can you clarify how it would not be true? The traders from Kalinga before the makings war which saw makings annexed spoke Odia and some proto Bengali in East Indies and Indochina. With half a century under Nepalese rule, how is it that Nepali speaking traders wouldn't be there.

Well for one you stated it was a confederacy, meaning each province will decide its own language policy amoung other things, and Second it would not just be Nepalis Rule, As Nepali Identity would not be as strong as you state it would, and since it has conquered many other regions of India, it will blend in eventually, and Nepali Language is no special language and has no use outside Nepal and especially in realms of science and religious philosophy

Also tell me where after 600 BC was Sanskrit used as majority language on the subcontinent. Hindi, and proto regional languages gained traction after this time.

No a Majority language per say, but the Language in which All Administrative, Economic, Religious and Scientific from different parts of India were all written in Sanskrit as it was the Language of the High Culture

Also Nepali as a language existed from 900 BCE, so where is it you're getting this not formed information?

Ramayana, one of the two epic of Hinduism, was not even translated Nepali till Nepal's National or First Poet Bhanubhakta Acharya, who did it from, guess which language ?, Sanskrit, and it was done in 1887, so essentially it took only over 2500 years to Translate it to Nepali, before it, everyone was using Sanskrit, like the rest of Subcontinent, just one of the examples in which Nepali always second to Sanskrit in religious and cultural terms, Nepal also no doubt used Sanskrit as an important language

 

[Sārthākā]

Well for one you stated it was a confederacy, meaning each province will decide its own language policy amoung other things, and Second it would not just be Nepalis Rule, As Nepali Identity would not be as strong as you state it would, and since it has conquered many other regions of India, it will blend in eventually, and Nepali Language is no special language and has no use outside Nepal and especially in realms of science and religious philosophy

Again, the Confederacy is of Confederacy of Kingdoms with Nepalese cadet lines.

No a Majority language per say, but the Language in which All Administrative, Economic, Religious and Scientific from different parts of India were all written in Sanskrit as it was the Language of the High Culture

The Dravidians would like to argue with you during this time period along with the Kashmiris, Vanga Bengalies and Odias as well as Kalinganas.

Ramayana, one of the two epic of Hinduism, was not even translated Nepali till Nepal's National or First Poet Bhanubhakta Acharya, who did it from, guess which language ?, Sanskrit, and it was done in 1887, so essentially it took only over 2500 years to Translate it to Nepali, before it, everyone was using Sanskrit, like the rest of Subcontinent

Oh? The Bible wasn't translated into other languages except latin into other languages until 1500, about 1500 years after it was written. Are you going to tell me French, English, Gaelic, Spanish, Portuguese, Italian, Greek, Slavic, Scandinavian tongues did not exist until then? I really wonder what the Khas Nepali language was too then. Simply basing off your arguement off a translation is silly and very short sighted and narrow.

 

[Brahman]

Again, the Confederacy is of Confederacy of Kingdoms with Nepalese cadet lines.

And each would be forced to accept the local Hegemonic culture in the province they rule

The Dravidians would like to argue with you during this time period along with the Kashmiris, Vanga Bengalies and Odias as well as Kalinganas.

The Dravidians, especially Vijayanagara or Cholas also used Sanskrit along with other languages as well, all Hindu based Indian empires did

Oh? The Bible wasn't translated into other languages except latin into other languages until 1500, about 1500 years after it was written. Are you going to tell me French, English, Gaelic, Spanish, Portuguese, Italian, Greek, Slavic, Scandinavian tongues did not exist until then? I really wonder what the Khas Nepali language was too then. Simply basing off your arguement off a translation is silly and very short sighted and narrow.

Sorry to break your bubble, but Nepali is a very much a new language in terms of its literature and history, Bengal, South Indian languages, Marathi, Gujarati all translated and had many different versions of Ramayana centuries or even Millennia before Nepal, Nepali was the last to do so, sanskrit patronage in Nepali was there like all other kingdoms in India, Even in this fictional Nepala Mandala, Sanskrit would be used as the link language

 

[Sārthākā]

And each would be forced to accept the local Hegemonic culture in the province they rule

Oh? Considering they are considered a Vedic civilization what forces them to?

The Dravidians, especially Vijayanagara or Cholas also used Sanskrit along with other languages as well, all Hindu based Indian empires did

The Cholas did not use them until they started to gain an empire and sphere of influence. Provide me proof that the Odias, Kalinganas, etc did.

Sorry to break your bubble, but Nepali is a very much a new language in terms of its literature and history, Bengal, South Indian languages, Marathi, Gujarati all translated and had many different versions of Ramayana centuries or even Millennia before Nepal, Nepali was the last to do so, sanskrit patronage in Nepali was there like all other kingdoms in India, Even in this fictional Nepala Mandala, Sanskrit would be used as the link language

Citation needed. Provide proof that Khas Kura and Old Newari did not exist.

 

[Brahman]

Oh? Considering they are considered a Vedic civilization what forces them to

And each of those vedic civilizations has its own culture due to geographic distribution

The Cholas did not use them until they started to gain an empire and sphere of influence. Provide me proof that the Odias, Kalinganas, etc did.

Cholas used Sanskrit from the getgo and when they expanded on other territories, it became a form of communication, Odias were for the most part centered in Odia region, as such, they already had a single language, Odia for them to use, and even they used Sanskrit for again religious and other ceremonial purposes

Citation needed. Provide proof that Khas Kura and Old Newari did not exist.

They Obviously did exist, but they were never prominent or even comparable to Sanskrit in stature for most of History, infact, most of literature were from high caste brahmins and kshatriyas, who would always use sanskrit

 

[Sārthākā]

And each of those vedic civilizations has its own culture due to geographic distribution


Cholas used Sanskrit from the getgo and when they expanded on other territories, it became a form of communication, Odias were for the most part centered in Odia region, as such, they already had a single language, Odia for them to use, and even they used Sanskrit for again religious and other ceremonial purposes


They Obviously did exist, but they were never prominent or even comparable to Sanskrit in stature for most of History,

You just proved my point, ceremonial use. The Cholas sanskrit part is not evidenced by historical evidence.
Oh? Then tell me why is Modern Nepali, Kumaoni, Assamese, Sherpa and another 60 languages and Northern Bihari considered to be descendants of Khas Kura? Also you just contradicted yourself mate.
Also what part of butterfly effect don't you understand? You yourself state it was for ceremonial purposes. And historically conquered languages gained popularity and traction in the people. This is proven by records in Vanga, Gupta and Kalinga and the entire world. When the Gupta Empire took over, they created the modern language of Hindi, and uprooted sanskrit in the Indian subcontinent. So i am really not understanding why you are spouting sanskrit exceptionalism here.

This has been a very childish debate man. And till now you have only provided whataboutism. Provide historical proof. And then we'll talk. This has gone far enough as childish as it is.

 

[Brahman]

You just proved my point, ceremonial use. The Cholas sanskrit part is not evidenced by historical evidence.
Oh? Then tell me why is Modern Nepali, Kumaoni, Assamese, Sherpa and another 60 languages and Northern Bihari considered to be descendants of Khas Kura? Also you just contradicted yourself mate.
Also what part of butterfly effect don't you understand? You yourself state it was for ceremonial purposes. And historically conquered languages gained popularity and traction in the people. This is proven by records in Vanga, Gupta and Kalinga and the entire world. When the Gupta Empire took over, they created the modern language of Hindi, and uprooted sanskrit in the Indian subcontinent. So i am really not understanding why you are spouting sanskrit exceptionalism here.

This has been a very childish debate man. And till now you have only provided whataboutism. Provide historical proof. And then we'll talk. This has gone far enough as childish as it is.

1. All languages of Indian subcontinent are related and decendants of Sanskrit and Indo Aryans languages except Dravidians, so ofcourse Nepali language would have relatives in the nearby regions
2. It was for multipurpose when they were localised, when they conquered other regions, it also became a link language, why were brahmins praised for their knowledge of Sanskrit across the subcontinent, because it was the lingua franca of the elites and only Brahmins could teach them
3. What is this nonsense of Guptas introducing Hindi?, Hindi evolved from Kharibolo language during Muslim rule, Guptas were big patron of sanskrit and they were a high point for sanskrit literature
4. What I am doing is bursting your bubble about Nepali language, Nepali literature is essentially invisible for most of history, people spoke their own dialects, but Sanskrit was the language of commerce and science, I suggest you accept the Fact the nepali language is not some ancient literary language, but a very modern language in literary sense, there was no real Nepali literature Bhanubhkata

Nepali literature - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

.

 

[Sārthākā]

1. All languages of Indian subcontinent are related and decendants of Sanskrit and Indo Aryans languages except Dravidians, so ofcourse Nepali language would have relatives in the nearby regions
2. It was for multipurpose when they were localised, when they conquered other regions, it also became a link language, why were brahmins praised for their knowledge of Sanskrit across the subcontinent, because it was the lingua franca of the elites and only Brahmins could teach them
3. What is this nonsense of Guptas introducing Hindi?, Hindi evolved from Kharibolo language during Muslim rule, Guptas were big patron of sanskrit
4. What I am doing is bursting your bubble about Nepali language, Nepali literature is essentially invisible for most of history, people spoke their own dialects, but Sanskrit was the language of commerce and science, I suggest you accept the Fact the nepali language is not some ancient literary language, but a very modern language in literary sense, there was no real Nepali literature Bhanubhkata

Nepali literature - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

.

Sigh, I meant that it became popular during the reign of the Guptas, Early Hindi was used during this time before evolving into the Delhi dialect.
All languages in Eurasia barring the Sinosphere are Indo-European. Are you going to argue they are the same then?
Tell me then, if Sanskrit was so 'never dying' and 'never uprooting' then, why did administration in Kalinga, Vanga, etc happen in native languages with sanskrit being used for ceremonial titles and words? Tell me then why did nothing against this happen?
Oh I do not deny that Nepali outside it's hinterlands have not been a visible language in history, however again, Sanskrit was not used as court culture, Nepali was used, there is a reason why the North Indian Empires had Nepali translators with them in diplomatic attempts and the Nepalese excursions into the Tang and Yuan Empires along with the Tibetan Empires used Nepali, not Sanskrit. Absence of literature does not equate absence of language. Slavic literature was absent for a millennia after its devlopment, did Slavic languages not exist then? Chinese literature grew about 1500 years after its first use, did Chinese language not exist then?

Also in all contexts of history, the conqueror's language have been dominant in history. The Vijaynagara empire imposed Kannada in higher administration in its provinces, be they malayam, telegu or maratha. The same is true for the Guptas. The same is again true for the Mauryan Empire as well. I would like to see historical evidence backing up your claim.

And again, you are ignoring historical context. Why did local governance happen in local languages with higher administration in conqueror's language all over India in history with sanskrit as ceremonial languages then?

I would also like to know why if the Indian Empires could do it and not have any problems, the Nepalese could not do it, when it was precisely what they did throughout history and most particularly in the times of Khas Empire.

 

[CalBear]

Closed at OP request.