The Man in the High Castle on Amazon Prime

Discussion in 'Alternate History Books and Media' started by xxmagex, Jan 15, 2015.

  1. omrk Well-Known Member

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    I have a question about the parallel worlds, following the third season finale we understand that one cannot enter another world which his alternative version exists, so both Tagomi and Julienne did not visit the same world, so which of the 2 is our world? It doesn't really matter but I looking forward for some insights.
    One of the things I like in this season is the background of the early days after WWII was over, I wonder what happened to Ike...
     
  2. RaspingLeech Well-Known Member

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    Of the two we saw Tagomi's was closest to our world, though I'm not really convinced it was our world and there still could have been differences we never saw.

    Julianna absolutely wasn't ours because of the sabotage done by Nazi agents to things like the space program (and the throwaway line about men and women astronauts).
     
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  3. Polish Eagle AntiFa Supersoldier

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    Patton surrendered to Rommel at West Point, so presumably the Nazi invasion had only physically overrun New England and perhaps NYC before Washington went up in smoke. Fort Monmouth is still American at the surrender, so they certainly haven't taken much or any of NJ. Eisenhower's forces are presumably concentrated in the midwest, and anti-Nazi rebel activity is likely concentrated there and in the South. The late-1940s and early-1950s presumably feature stamping out of this rebellion--I would presume Eisenhower is killed in battle or dies of age-related complications (he suffered a severe heart attack in 1955--either that one or an earlier one kills him ITTL). [/QUOTE]
     
  4. weaverj Fortnite Delenda Est

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    I do recall it being mentioned that there was fighting on Virginia Beach back in season 1 as well.
     
  5. Polish Eagle AntiFa Supersoldier

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    I wonder about the logistics of that. Geography makes the shortest distance between Europe and the US mainland the distance between Iceland and Newfoundland. I would expect any Nazi invasion of North America to begin with island-hopping--Britain to Iceland to the southern tip of Greenland, and then an invasion of Newfoundland and Nova Scotia.

    Virginia Beach? I think I remember that dialogue too. The only way the main thrust of the invasion would go that way would be if the Nazis stage out of Bermuda. Which they could, though that would piss away any operational surprise. And I'm struggling to put together a campaign history that ends at West Point while beginning in Virginia that also has Washington nuked but not NYC--one really would expect the capital of American Jewry to be at the top of the Nazis' nuke-list if they had a bomb. So I assumed NYC fell before Washington. Nuking a city that they already held would be kind of pointless--maybe there's a Siege of Washington akin to the Siege of Leningrad. This would allow the Nazis to advance north, the Appalachians on their left flank, New Jersey on their right flank, until they reach West Point. But that doesn't make much operational sense--it means they end up occupying a lot of unimportant farmland and second-class industrial towns while the real points of strategic interest--NYC, Washington, Pittsburgh--remain in US hands.

    Maybe there are two invasion thrusts? One through the northeast, another through Virginia?
     
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  6. weaverj Fortnite Delenda Est

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    The events at Virginia Beach could've taken place after the US surrendered in the Post-War cleanup. I doubt that every Soldier in the US Army laid down there arms just like that.
     
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  7. Allochronian Well-Known Member

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    I also noticed what I thought was another pathetic attempt at getting "woke points" from the audience. It was mostly from the homosexual scenes.

    The BCR coming into focus was so late in the show that it was very distracting and I thought that I was watching either a different show or a spin-off.

    Despite being one big cliché, I was actually curious how Aztlán was like, since it was one of the few, if not only country, to remain completely in the neutral zone.

    I also would like to mention that I was beyond curious about the Catholic-Jewish village that we saw in the show. What happened to the Catholic hierarchy? What about the Pope? Is he in exile somewhere in the Neutral Zone?
     
  8. nik2016 Well-Known Member

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    Possible Nazi invasion (note Nazis in OTL had plans to take Iceland, Operation Ikarus). The Fascist regime in Portugal (Azores belong to Portugal) had good views about Hitler in OTL.

    NorthAtlantic.jpg
     
  9. lordroel Well-Known Member

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    There was in 1942 a Life Magazine issue about what route the Germans would take in order to invade the United States: What If The Nazis Had Invaded America? Maps Reveal How Hitler Could Have Attacked The U.S. (As Imagined By 1942 Issue Of Life Magazine)
     
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  10. weaverj Fortnite Delenda Est

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    I do like this map, but I do have some problems with it.

    1. it was created during the war, and people during the war didn't have hindsight on their side, so they would'nt have known about the Nazi's true capabilities and probably would've just assumed the absolute worst

    2. It was created during the war, so it was also most likely propaganda, so it could've also just been scaremongering of a sort.
     
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  11. JFoxx Well-Known Member

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    With the apparent role of Britain in this timeline, I have always assumed that the Nazis likely invaded from Bermuda, made possible via an alliance with the British.
     
  12. Basileus_Komnenos Imperator Romanorum Βασιλεύς των Ρωμαιων Αὔγουστος

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    While I enjoy the Man in the High Castle I have some problems with its world-building.

    The Germans in otl were running out of fuel all the back during the invasion of France. Thus they had to partially de-motorize their invasion force relying on horses to pull in artillery pieces. In some cases Panzers were left abandoned due to them running out of fuel. One of the main reasons they invaded Russia was because of it having the nearest supply of oil which was necessary to continue the war.

    At best the Nazis could get away with was putting client states in Europe with shaky legitimacy in their home regions. There was no way that Sea Lion could ever have been successful as the Royal Navy reigned supreme on the seas. The German Kriegsmarine wasn't ready to go toe toe with the Royal Navy until 1948 based on German naval buildup plans. Germany also only occupied Northern France as a means to protect themselves from another invasion by the allies. Even if Germany somehow forced Britain to surrender, there was no real way he could occupy the country without the Royal Navy destroying his fleet and/or the fierce resistance from the British making an invasion very costly and untenable.

    Stalin in otl also had plans to continue the War from the other side of the Urals anyway. By the time the Germans got to Moscow the Soviets had transplanted much of their infrastructure and industrial apparatus to other parts of Russia so that if Moscow was lost the War would still go on. Halder took the wrong lessons from the war and changed Hitler's plan to go Southwards to take Baku (Hitler and the General Staff didn't find out about it until it was too late). Even if the Germans do manage to get to the oil fields before the Russians bomb it, the German army would have sustained great losses and even if the eek out a victory it will be a near Pyrrhic one at best.

    Supposing that Germany nuked the US, they still wouldn't be able to occupy it. The US is very large and decentralized with a very low population density compared to Europe. The Japanese even knew that an invasion wouldn't work because American citizens were armed to the teeth. The US had a large manpower pool as well with a huge distance between it and Europe, making German logistics very difficult.

    Also Germany occupying Italy and integrating into another set of provinces directly ruled from Berlin would not work. The Italians wouldn't take this lying down. The Italians during the war also had a pretty good fleet and air force which was hampered by a lack of fuel. Germany had also faced this similar situation. Germany would also have its hand full administering its vast new territorial holdings. Nazi Administration was not very good especially in terms of economics. The German recovery after the Depression was fueled by debt. They only paid it off by plundering the nations they invaded. This is not a very good long-term strategy for an empire. The Nazi's own racial policy would also cause many rebellions. The frequent plundering of conquered territories combined with their nonsensical racial hierarchies would mean that the Nazi Empire would be a ticking time bomb. For example in Ukraine where the Nazis were initially welcomed as liberators saving them from the Soviets during the Holdomir, the Nazis committed horrible atrocities which caused the Ukrainians to fight alongside the Soviets.
     
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  13. JFoxx Well-Known Member

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    ^all fair points. But I think Hitler’s fascination with the movies is the plot hammer to fix any issues. In this crazy world where travel of people and thing between realities is possible, the likely explanation is that Hitler has the movies as far back at the late 30s and tailored his approach to avoid what he knew of the many (likely most) worlds whether he failed.
     
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  14. Jesus Well-Known Member

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    Depending on how far back Hitler had the films, its very likely that the Man in the High Castle version of Hitler is essentially a Machiavellian mastermind. Its very likely he could've done stuff like, back up a "Trotskyist plot" in the USSR, to cause it to fall to a civil war as Barbarossa is carried out with impunity. Then take out FDR to assure that an isolationist gets in the White House, cooperate with pro-Nazi elements in the UK long before World War 2 to get that guarantee on Poland off, so UK never joins the war and is likely subverted from within. Basically, this Hitler wouldn't be the one we know, he'd be Emperor Palpatine from Star Wars.
     
  15. weaverj Fortnite Delenda Est

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    Kinda reminds me of this one TL I read on here. I believe it was "Screw the Rebels, Screw the Allies, and Screw the Union," where someone from OTL decides to give insight to Palpatine, Hitler, and Davis to help win their respective wars.
     
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  16. Mister Abbadon Well-Known Member

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    So I finally finished it. And this felt like Two Seasons smashed together. I wonder why they decided to wrap up their only original show, other than the miniseries Good Omens, that doesn't completely suck in such a hurry.

    Most people have, by now, made all the points that I thought of but I do want to say at least this had a somewhat satisfying ending.
    The only character I really wanted to see what happens to next is Kido. I was a bit dissapointed that Frank and Joe seemed totally forgotten after being such important parts of the show and it was a shame that Tagomi, the heart of the First three seasons isn't there, but Juliana and the Smith family were at a pretty satisfying end point. I dont know what's up with the Portal but eh. Not as good as Season 2 but hey, it could've been a Game of Thrones Tier burnout.
     
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  17. akoslows Well-Known Member

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    Does anyone else think that it sucks that characters like Ed and Nicole just completely vanished in Season 4? Considering how they were featured rather prominently in the previous seasons, I was hoping that we'd get somewhat of an explanation as to what happened to them.
     
  18. weaverj Fortnite Delenda Est

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    I mean, if there is one good thing I'll give Season 4, its that epic shot of the American Reich Bombers pulling away. Just the shot combined with the Soundtrack made it a great scene, and its the main scene that I rewatch for this season.
     
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  19. Bbone91 I have no powers but I can skip reasonably well.

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    Agreed
     
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  20. CJD Well-Known Member

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    This might be a bit of a digression but watching the Axis dominated America in the show kinda makes me think of the setting of the Fatherland book and wonder about what that USA is like there. Since for them while the Nazis are a threat there are still a bit distant in the way the Soviets were OTL.
     
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