1 February 1984 - 10:00pm
This is the national news from the ABC read by Peter Young.
You mean 7pm: http://televisionau.com/classic-tv-guides/tv270683
The Lucky Country: Protect and Survive in Australia
- Thread starter PimpLenin
- Start date
You mean 7pm: http://televisionau.com/classic-tv-guides/tv270683
Excellent start
Just a couple of suggestions from an antipodean reader:
Hawke would likely refer to "knickers" or "bloomers" rather than "skivvies". A skivvy is a turtleneck in this part of the world rather than underwear.
Down here it's also "arse" rather than "ass". I only point this out because the pronunciations are different, and as written it makes Hawke "sound" American
Congratulations on getting another Australian P&S timeline started. I hope this will complement and improve on the previous two.
It's worth noting that Senator Susan Ryan was Minister for Education & Youth Affairs in the first (and ITTL only) Hawke Cabinet. So the 'gentlemen' bit will have to change.
It's worth noting that Senator Susan Ryan was Minister for Education & Youth Affairs in the first (and ITTL only) Hawke Cabinet. So the 'gentlemen' bit will have to change.
PimpLenin
Banned
Yes, the Kiwis will have a role, post-war.
This was supposed to be ABC Radio National. I can adjust the time accordingly, if needed. If anyone knows of an ABC announcer from the 80’s, I would appreciate it. I got the name Peter Young from a news sound bite I found about Whitlam’s dismissal, which was in ‘75.
Just a couple of suggestions from an antipodean reader:
Hawke would likely refer to "knickers" or "bloomers" rather than "skivvies". A skivvy is a turtleneck in this part of the world rather than underwear.
Down here it's also "arse" rather than "ass". I only point this out because the pronunciations are different, and as written it makes Hawke "sound" American
Suggestions taken, and changes made. Thank you! My wife is Australian and I try to use Aussie slang that I picked up in my days living down there as much as I can when talking with her. “Arse” is a common word used around my house. I was not sure though how it would go down with the audience here, though.
Perhaps "And his shadow ministry."
You what? A national emergency is a three line whip, which 25 members of the house committed political suicide in public? Did the Liberal/National coalition allow a conscience vote? Did the Labor Left decide that political suicide was an option en masse?
Disloyal Reps are rare as hens teeth and make the news.
So if it swiftly passed a balance of power senate ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australian_federal_election,_1983 ) then that means that the Lib/Nats voted for it. Which means the Reps vote would have been unanimous.
Given that this is happening during the largest sell out by trade union leaderships of their members in history ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prices_and_Incomes_Accord#Original_accord_.28February_1983.29 ), the balance of forces has moved remarkably in favour of workers instantly. I'd be surprised if some less readily bound Nationals went and had a drink at the RSL sub-branch about this.
Sam.
No worries. I'm pretty sure Radio National would station ID itself as such. Ahh:
wiki> From 1947 until the mid-1980s, "Radio 2" (as it came to be known) was broadcast to the major metropolitan centres, with a large broadcast footprint in adjacent areas due to the powerful AM transmitters in use. It contained most of the ABC's national programming.
My google fu is coming short on the radio history, but wiki says Radio 2 went FM in the early 1980s. Might have AM broadcast redundancy. But of course they're in capital cities or hot targets like Newcastle, NSW.
Sam.
The RNZN is directly referenced in the original P+S. I've been toying with a non-fictionalised speculative account of NZ's preparedness and actions/reactions myself, to the point of asking around for the opinions and recollections of some who were in a better position to know in 1984 than I was (I was 7 at the time).
No worries. I'm in NZ myself.
If the previous Australian P&S vignettes are accepted as Canonical, at least https://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showpost.php?p=6548262&postcount=29 seven targets in Australia were hit during the Exchange, with another hit post-Exchange. That's not to say that others weren't also struck as targets of opportunity, particularly those in Northern Australia within range of Cam Ranh Bay-based bombers or Soviet SSGNs armed with nuclear cruise missiles.
Also, subscribed PimpLenin. Keep up the good work!
On a similar note I don't recall NZ targeting being specified in canon thus far, but it seems a given (and something locally assigned Soviet diplomats at the time apparently hinted at, "nothing personal, just business" style) that the capital Wellington would be hit, as we were a fully paid up member of ANZUS at the time. Hitting only Wellington leaves actual military targets pretty much out of the picture though, so whether the handful of those that exist get hit is open to speculation.
The mechanism of the strike on Cairns post exchange also struck me as a bit unlikely, canon or not
1 February 1984 - 10:00pm
That's the wrong logo - see-
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australian_Broadcasting_Corporation#mediaviewer/File:ABCTV1975.svg
Excellent start
I only point this out because the pronunciations are different, and as written it makes Hawke "sound" American
And that meeting was far too formal - among other things I reckon there would have been a hell of lot of 'Bobs' 'Andrews' and 'Johns'. There would also have been a lot more 'bloodies' 'bastards' etc.
Pangur
Donor
First off, it's great to have an Aussie story here, thanks for writing one.
A few comments on the joint cabinet meeting.
Surely Hawke would have to give some cabinet positions to the Coalition? Deputy PM perhaps?
Nationalising rail and the like. I am pretty sure that little if any of the rail network was in private hands at the time however perhaps you mean federalise?
Qantas: I am have no idea how this works however the Fed Gov had and still have some sort of hold on Qantas where they have first call on the use of their aircraft if required (as I stated I am not sure at all of the details) At a guess some of their pilots would have been ex RAAF and maybe RAN and still with in that period when they can be called back to service- if that happens how does QANTAS make up the required numbers to keep their aircraft flying?
The HMAS Melbourne may still be in Aussie hands, did it get used in some fashion?
A few comments on the joint cabinet meeting.
Surely Hawke would have to give some cabinet positions to the Coalition? Deputy PM perhaps?
Nationalising rail and the like. I am pretty sure that little if any of the rail network was in private hands at the time however perhaps you mean federalise?
Qantas: I am have no idea how this works however the Fed Gov had and still have some sort of hold on Qantas where they have first call on the use of their aircraft if required (as I stated I am not sure at all of the details) At a guess some of their pilots would have been ex RAAF and maybe RAN and still with in that period when they can be called back to service- if that happens how does QANTAS make up the required numbers to keep their aircraft flying?
The HMAS Melbourne may still be in Aussie hands, did it get used in some fashion?
The main ABC news on all outlets at the time was at 1900.
Try John Hall as the newsreader.
PimpLenin
Banned
The following is a letter delivered to the members of the Select Cabinet for the National Emergency on the afternoon of 3 February 1984:
COMMONWEALTH OF AUSTRALIA
Office of the Prime Minister
Canberra
3 February 1984
Dear Sirs:
Under the authority given to me by the National Emergency Act of 1984, I have selected the following people to serve on the Select Cabinet for the National Emergency:
- Hon. Dr. Neal Blewett, MP - Minister for Health
- Hon. Lionel Bowen, MP - Deputy Prime Minister and Minister for Trade
- Sen. Hon. John Button - Minister for Industry and Commerce
- Hon. Michael Duffy, MP - Minister for Communications
- Sen. Hon. Gareth Evans - Attorney-General
- Hon. Bill Hayden, MP - Minister for Foreign Affairs
- Hon. Charles Hurford, MP - Minister for Housing and Construction
- Hon. Barry Jones, MP - Minister for Science and Technology
- Hon. Paul Keating, MP - Treasurer
- Hon. Peter Morris, MP - Minister for Transport
- Hon. Gordon Scholes, MP - Minister for Defence
- Sen. Hon. Peter Walsh - Minister for Resources and Energy
- Hon. Ralph Willis, MP - Minister for Employment and Industrial Relations
I have also requested that the Governor-General, His Excellency the Rt. Hon. Sir Ninian Stephen, the Opposition Leader the Hon. Andrew Peacock, MP, and any members of the shadow cabinet deemed essential to join us. The first meeting of the SCNE is scheduled for 4 February at 9:00am at the Cabinet Office.
Sincerely
Bob Hawke
COMMONWEALTH OF AUSTRALIA
Office of the Prime Minister
Canberra
3 February 1984
Dear Sirs:
Under the authority given to me by the National Emergency Act of 1984, I have selected the following people to serve on the Select Cabinet for the National Emergency:
- Hon. Dr. Neal Blewett, MP - Minister for Health
- Hon. Lionel Bowen, MP - Deputy Prime Minister and Minister for Trade
- Sen. Hon. John Button - Minister for Industry and Commerce
- Hon. Michael Duffy, MP - Minister for Communications
- Sen. Hon. Gareth Evans - Attorney-General
- Hon. Bill Hayden, MP - Minister for Foreign Affairs
- Hon. Charles Hurford, MP - Minister for Housing and Construction
- Hon. Barry Jones, MP - Minister for Science and Technology
- Hon. Paul Keating, MP - Treasurer
- Hon. Peter Morris, MP - Minister for Transport
- Hon. Gordon Scholes, MP - Minister for Defence
- Sen. Hon. Peter Walsh - Minister for Resources and Energy
- Hon. Ralph Willis, MP - Minister for Employment and Industrial Relations
I have also requested that the Governor-General, His Excellency the Rt. Hon. Sir Ninian Stephen, the Opposition Leader the Hon. Andrew Peacock, MP, and any members of the shadow cabinet deemed essential to join us. The first meeting of the SCNE is scheduled for 4 February at 9:00am at the Cabinet Office.
Sincerely
Bob Hawke
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Still in Aus in 1984, but decommissioned since 1982, and declared "not to be replaced" by the incoming Hawke government in 1983. Melbourne's final operational cruise was in 1981.
Pangur
Donor
Granted on the `not to be replaced' & being decommissioned however an all out global war may well change that even if it is used to hunt subs or as a floating airbase in some port
Maybe, but the POD required to enable that would likely predate the crisis. The quoted standard for reactivation just to ASW helicopter operation status (i.e. no fixed wing ASW or fast jet ops) was 26 weeks according to the Wiki entry. Even if you cut that time in half it's still a big ask. The air-wing would also need re-qualification and re-training in front-line carrier ops - the relevant squadrons and associated corporate knowledge were disestablished in 1982 along with the carrier. Not saying it's impossible, but it's not all that simple either.
I think the problem you have with an Australian story in the Protect and Survive timeline is that the canon is not entirely logical. To be fair, it was written by people who didn't know a lot about Australia, and references to Australia were in passing.
For example, on the target list you have Brisbane and Cairns.
Now there's little of value at Cairns (a small naval patrol boat base), so that doesn't make sense, unless the reason it's hit in the post-exchange period is because a US carrier or other high value target is thought by the Soviets to be in port. Faulty intelligence perhaps?
Brisbane also doesn't make sense unless the idea is to destroy cities, in which case why wouldn't you hit Melbourne? There is an army base in Brisbane, but RAAF Amberley (where the F-111s are based) is about 50kms away.
Sydney and Canberra are givens, as are Pine Gap (18kms from Alice Springs), Nurrungar (15kms from Woomera), and Exmouth. These latter three are located well away from major population centres so will have minimal affect beyond their strategic, military value.
Beyond those five, if I were the Soviets and I had two more nukes with Australia's name on them, I'd hit RAAF Amberley and Melbourne.
Of course, human and mechanical error comes into it and is seen in other parts of the wider story, so no reason why faulty intelligence (or thinking) couldn't see Cairns and Brisbane hit, or Melbourne and RAAF Amberley spared.
In any case, and not to diminish losses, but I think Hawke's actions in giving the PM more power aren't really necessary.
The Governor General is head of state (and head of the defence force) and if he dies then the longest-serving of the state governors takes over, so it's not like the country would be left rudderless.
With Canberra nuked (and with it all the bureaucrats), the state governments would arguably have much greater importance, and certainly autonomy.
For example, on the target list you have Brisbane and Cairns.
Now there's little of value at Cairns (a small naval patrol boat base), so that doesn't make sense, unless the reason it's hit in the post-exchange period is because a US carrier or other high value target is thought by the Soviets to be in port. Faulty intelligence perhaps?
Brisbane also doesn't make sense unless the idea is to destroy cities, in which case why wouldn't you hit Melbourne? There is an army base in Brisbane, but RAAF Amberley (where the F-111s are based) is about 50kms away.
Sydney and Canberra are givens, as are Pine Gap (18kms from Alice Springs), Nurrungar (15kms from Woomera), and Exmouth. These latter three are located well away from major population centres so will have minimal affect beyond their strategic, military value.
Beyond those five, if I were the Soviets and I had two more nukes with Australia's name on them, I'd hit RAAF Amberley and Melbourne.
Of course, human and mechanical error comes into it and is seen in other parts of the wider story, so no reason why faulty intelligence (or thinking) couldn't see Cairns and Brisbane hit, or Melbourne and RAAF Amberley spared.
In any case, and not to diminish losses, but I think Hawke's actions in giving the PM more power aren't really necessary.
The Governor General is head of state (and head of the defence force) and if he dies then the longest-serving of the state governors takes over, so it's not like the country would be left rudderless.
With Canberra nuked (and with it all the bureaucrats), the state governments would arguably have much greater importance, and certainly autonomy.