The Long Twentieth Century : a Franz Ferdinand Lives TL

Discussion in 'Alternate History Discussion: After 1900' started by MaskedPickle, Nov 26, 2018.

  1. MaskedPickle Well-Known Member

    Who knows ?

    Lafayette_ likes this.
  2. CalBear Your Ursus arctos californicus Moderator Moderator Donor

    Oct 4, 2005
    Nice. just about word for word copy of two full paragraphs from Wikipedia passed off as your own work.


    Plagiarism is a one bite offense. This is yours.

    Kicked for a week
  3. CalBear Your Ursus arctos californicus Moderator Moderator Donor

    Oct 4, 2005
    Thread locked as fruit of a poisoned tree,
    Evil Crusader and X_X like this.
  4. Ian the Admin Administrator Donor

    Dec 19, 2003
    Thread unlocked. I don't think that saying something is from "Omnipedia" is hiding that it's a modified version of Wikipedia.

    People should please cite when they copy material from a source, but I'm going to count that as a citation.
  5. MaskedPickle Well-Known Member

    I first feel that I need a little explaination to my readers.

    This thread was locked by Moderator CalBear due to a part of an update consecrated to early women’s suffrage, where I had copy-pasted and hardly modified the opening text of the Wikipedia article consecrated to the Nineteenth Amendment, in order to provide background for an earlier passing of women’s suffrage in the United States. I was accused of plagiarism and the thread was immediately locked.
    Do I recognize the facts ? Yes, of course. Did I felt I was plagiarizing the contributors of Wikipedia? No.
    For me, it was not so much of a plagiarism : in real life, I am a licensed journalist and author and taking credit for other people’s work is both a personal and professional misdemeanour to me; for example, for A Giant Sucking Sound, I had talked to vultan who was creating his own TL around the same PoD, and I also heavily said that this TL would be heavily influenced by Kaiserreich. Nevertheless, I saw it more as a pastiche : it was obvious that it was an imitation of a Wikipedia article, I decided to resort to it as a literary device, drawing on the “effet de réel” (theorized by Roland Barthes from the works of Balzac and Flaubert) in order to add verisimiltude to my counter-factual endeavour. The issue had been raised in France when it was revealed that in his last novels, Michel Houellebecq had copy-pasted and unmodified whole Wikipedia articles : his detractors talked of plagiarism, others of literary feedback. It was my intention, not at all malevolent; if I committed something wrong, it’s because I didn’t know the definition of plagiarism in this forum.
    Would I do it twice ? Not at all, had the thread having not been locked, I would have immediately edited the offense and published the very same “mea culpa” I’m writing here. But I was given no short notice, it was night time here in France, plagiarism is a serious offense here in France and I couldn’t justify my deeds. But I’m not ready to throw away hours and days of work on this new TL and I wanted to continue it even if it meant reposting over and over these updates. All passages “inspired” by real work will be accompanied by a disclaimer, if the narrative needs it.
    I’m deeply sorry to the moderators of this board for my ramblings due to this situation and also to readers who felt wronged by it. But now, let’s continue this TL that had been left in 1916…
  6. eldandythedoubter Well-Known Member

    Feb 28, 2015
    Good enough for me, so what's next?
  7. Threadmarks: Chapter Ten : A New Mexico

    MaskedPickle Well-Known Member

    The Presidency of Pascual Orozco, revolutionary from the first hour, the former best ally then traitor to Francisco Madero, was doomed from the start. Coming to power just a few months after an already ill Huerta had passed away, he dealt without Alvaro Obregon, Plutarco Elias Calles or Adolfo de la Huerta, the ablest Generals for the Constitutionalists, who preferred to turn to the Convenionists with their men and material than to serve General Huerta, the very man they had agreed to fight against. Orozco had become a household name in Mexico, as a brutal general and a chronic backstabber, and his accession triggered huge revolts in Mexico’s main cities, such as Monterrey, Quérétaro, Guadalajara and others, that turned to the Conventionists, the lesser of two evils. Puebla, a few kilometers from Mexico, became the center of the Convention.
    Due to this turn of events, President Woodrow Wilson announced on March, 16 1916 that they would officially support the Conventionist Movement in Mexico, “until free elections were organized”. In the mean time, the turmoil in Europe deprived Orozco from his best ally, Germany, who had supplied his armies in ammunition, material and money...
    History of the Mexican Revolution, Arturo Villaraigosa, McGraw-Hill, Los Angeles, 1998

    Capture d’écran 2019-04-02 à 14.42.03 (1).png

    General Félix Diaz, exiled in Cuba, tried to organize a National Reorganizer Army in Oaxaca and Chiapas in May 1916 to take advantage on the ongoing chaos in Mexico, but his efforts were unsuccesful and he was forced to go into exile again. Nevertheless, his efforts allowed Emiliano Zapata, in the South, to decisively defeat General Pablo Gonzalez, who had remained loyal to President Orozco and tried to beat him in southern Mexico…
    History of the Mexican Revolution, Arturo Villaraigosa, McGraw-Hill, Los Angeles, 1998

    Capture d’écran 2019-04-02 à 14.29.34.png

    -The New York Times, May, 2 1917

    In the Mexican Confederation, all individuals shall be entitled to the privileges and immunities granted by this Constitution. Such privileges and immunities shall not be restricted or suspended, but in the cases and under the conditions established by this Constitution itself. (1)
    -Article 1, Chapter I of the Constitution of Mexico, adopted on February, 5 1918 in Puebla

    Flag of the Mexican Confederation, adopted in 1916

    The President has taken good note of the democratic progress in Mexico, the adoption of a new Constitution and the fair elections, although made in an uneasy context, that led to the election to a four year-term of Professor José Vasconcelos, who has worked in the United States and is well-known scholar and supporter of democratic values. In the light of these new developments, President Wilson asked Congress to officially recognize the present government in Mexico City as the rightful Mexican one, and to gradually withdraw from American positions in Veracruz and Tampico…
    -Press conference by Secretary of State Robert Lansing, April, 12 1918

    General_PE_Calles_8_(cropped).jpg Obregón_Salido,_Álvaro.jpg 575px-Jose_Vasconcelos.jpg 548px-Pancho_Villa_bandolier_(cropped).jpg Emiliano_Zapata,_1914.jpg
    Masters of post-Revolution Mexico (from l. to r.) : General Calles, General Obregon, President Vasconcelos, General Villa, General Zapata

    The 1918 Constitution, also known as the Puebla Constitution, was the apex of the Conventionist Movement and put an end to a process that had started in 1910 : Mexico had a new Constitution, that changed the official name of the nation (the Mexican Confederation), putting an emphasis on federalism, Mexican nationalism, extensive land reform, separation of the Church and State, inability to re-elect officials, economic independance and human rights, among the first of its kind in the world. There were tiny revolts throughout the country, but the armies of reunited Mexico were quelling them down. Peace, after eight years of violence and anarchy, finally was at hand.
    In facts, Mexico had a great figurehead in the presence of elected President José Vasconcelos, who ruled in a triumvirate with General Plutarco Elias Calles, who pushed in favor of harsh anti-clericalism, and General Francisco Villa, who was more interested in the spoils of war and beginning to take interest into marxist theories. Meanwhile, Emiliano Zapata was retreating to his held territories in southern Mexico to oversee land reform…
    History of the Mexican Revolution, Arturo Villaraigosa, McGraw-Hill, Los Angeles, 1998

    Capture d’écran 2019-04-02 à 12.41.57.png

    TL; DR : The Mexican Revolution ends with a victory of the Conventionists (Villa and Zapata), joined by Alvaro Obregon and Plutarco Calles, who revolted against the disastrous Presidency of Pascual Orozco; while José Vasconcelos becomes President, the resulting Constitution is more radical...

    (1) Inspired from the first article of the actual Mexican Constitution -
    Last edited: Apr 5, 2019
  8. galileo-034 Extreme Centrist Conspirator

    Jul 14, 2010
    Baiona , Ipar Euskal Herria (Bayonne, FR)
    A "little" problem with Orozco infobox, he is pointed dead in 1915, while he is president in 1916-1917. Looks like a zombie president :closedeyesmile:
    eldandythedoubter likes this.
  9. MaskedPickle Well-Known Member

    Damn ! I thought I had added it. Now this fine man died in 1945 in Stockholm, aged 63 !
    Ran likes this.
  10. Not Henry G. Well-Known Member

    Dec 31, 2013
    Nice to see my Mexico get a lucky break. Will they have a presence in world affairs after they stabilize? I could see it as the Italy of the Americas, but hopefully more successful
    MaskedPickle likes this.
  11. Threadmarks: Chapter Eleven : The Irish Republican Army

    MaskedPickle Well-Known Member

    The proclaimation of the independance of Ireland on Saint Patrick’s Day, 1916, was followed by an immediate retribution from Bonar Law and his cabinet. 50,000 men, composing the Ireland Peacekeeping Army, under command by General Douglas Haig (himself supervized by Lord Lieutenant of Ireland, General Kitchener), landed near Dublin on April, 5, two weeks after the uprising, while Ulster Volunteers who had been recruited by the British Army occupied Northern England ; Dublin itself was shelled and taken without much fighting on May, 1 ; the Irish Provisional Government, the name the rebels had taken, went into hiding in western Ireland....
    -The Irish Civil War, F. Chesterfield, London, 2016

    Capture d’écran 2019-04-05 à 12.38.24.png

    “Soldiers, people of Dublin, you have wonderfully restored order in this fine Ireland, forcing the Republican rabble and traitors to flee like cowards in the sight of our King’s Army. Ireland shall endure now, but Ireland shall return to peace and be a place where Catholics and Protestants shall live in good understanding, far from the Papist deviations of a minority. Martial law is a harsh decision for His Majesty’s Cabinet to make, but it shall last until all terrorists are purged…”
    -Andrew Bonar Law’s speech to the Ireland Peacekeeping Army, in Dublin, during his week-long visit to Ireland, May, 12 1916

    The Irish Republican Army retreated in good order from Dublin, along with the Provisional Government, and established their headquarters in Connaught, in the mountains avoiding the English troops ; while vastly outnumbered (at the time of the Saint Patrick’s Rising, the Irish Republicans numbered 40,000 soldiers, a 1 to 2,5 ratio to the occupying forces), they benefited of excellent German material provided by “Foreign Minister” Roger Casement’s dealings, extensive help from the locals who resented military occupation, military upbringing compared to English reservists deployed in Ireland, and a thorough local knowledge, compared to the Ireland Peacekeepers, none of them being of Irish origin, as the Cabinet was worried about desertions and mutinees. All was in place for a guerilla in Connaught and Munster, consisting of skirmishes against British patrols...
    Lord Kitchener, due to his experience at the Second Boer War, pushed for a battle of annihilation strategy, hoping to destroy a small dedicated army...
    -The Irish Civil War, F. Chesterfield, London, 2016

    blank NA map.png
    The situation in Ireland : Green represents the area controlled by the Irish Republican rebels ; Orange, those held by Ulster Volunteers; white, the area theoritically under control of the British Army.

    On October, 29 1916, John Redmond, leader of the Irish Parliamentary Party, finally emerged from his year-long seclusion to ask, in front of Westminster Palace where he had refused to take seat, the cabinet to rescind martial law in Ireland, arguing that “it would only convince more and more Irishmen to turn to arms”. He hadn’t finished his speech in front of reporters that he was arrested on the spot by policemen, as were various IPP MPs thanks to the Uprising Act…
    -The Irish Civil War, F. Chesterfield, London, 2016

    Lord Kitchener finally took the chance at his climatic battle on March, 25 1917, in Kilmallock, in County Limerick, when the bulk of Ireland Peackeeping Army reached the Irish Republican headquarters...
    -The Irish Civil War, F. Chesterfield, London, 2016

    unnamed (2).png

    TL; DR: The Irish Republican Army retreats in good order and manages to wage guerilla upon the British
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2019
  12. Von Tyrconnell Well-Known Member

    Mar 5, 2015
    With Roger Casement securing German support if the rebellion suceeds (which it presumably might judging from the wikiboxes about the US Embassy hostage crisis) might we see a German prince such as Prince Joachim of Prussia on the Irish throne? Europe is still primarily monarchical in this timeline and there was support for the idea among the rebels including by Easter Rising leaders Patrick Pearse (who theorised in 1906 that the Ireland of 2006 would be an independent monarchy), Joseph Plunkett and Thomas MacDonagh as it was believed that an Irish monarchy would help establish ties with Germany and revive the Irish language.
  13. galileo-034 Extreme Centrist Conspirator

    Jul 14, 2010
    Baiona , Ipar Euskal Herria (Bayonne, FR)
    I'd say the second Boer war could be a better parallel given proximity and guerilla tactics, a war that Kitchener served and commanded in too.
  14. Threadmarks: Chapter Twelve : Four more years

    MaskedPickle Well-Known Member

    “After the terrible defeat suffered in 1912 with Theodore Roosevelt running his own campaign for the Progressive Party, the Republicans addressed the 1916 election with caution. Running against an incumbent President was always difficult and Wilson had been riding with an excellent economy, successful foreign endeavours in Mexico, Haiti and the Dominican Republic and women’s suffrage, that added more than 8 million potential electors, all feeling beholden towards the President.
    While President Wilson and Vice-President Marshall were re-nominated without opposition, in Chicago, from June 7 to 10, the Republican Convention had three major contenders : Senator Elihu Root from New York for the conservatives, Senator John W. Weeks of Massachuseetsand Senator Albert Cummins of Iowa for the liberals. Possible contenders, such as former President Theodore Roosevelt, Senator Warren G. Harding from Ohio or Supreme Court Associate Justice Charles Evans Hughes of New York decided to sit out this election cycle as Wilson appeared too powerful ; the absence of Roosevelt and from former Progressives allowed, on the fifteenth ballot, the victory of the conservative wing, with Elihu Root becoming the nominee.
    In an effort to convince the Progressives, he nominated insurgent Senator William Borah from Idaho, but things turned awry when other Progressives decided to walk out from the Convention on June, 9…"
    -Becoming the Grand Old Party, J. C. Wild, New York, 2019

    -The New York Times, June, 26 1916

    “When he heard of the attempt to have him drafted for a new time as the Progressive candidate for President, Teddy Roosevelt confirmed his previous intention, unwilling to further divide for good the Republican Party, but also increasing his chances for clinching the nomination in 1920…”
    -Roosevelt, J. Moorhead, Washington, 1994

    -Los Angeles Times, June, 28 1916

    Capture d’écran 2019-03-28 à 18.01.21.png

    The campaign trail was a total mess for two very competent man. Elihu Root was among the only American politicians to have earned a Nobel Peace Prize, yet his record as Secretary of State in the Roosevelt Administration and his interventionism were not well liked by average conservative Republicans, while Hiram Johnson, although a great Governor of California, had not the charisma of Roosevelt and didn’t manage to raise Progressive spirits like four years ago. In the same time, Wilson could boast of the strong economy and enjoyed the division of the Republican electorate, while knowing he had the female vote quite in hand… He could focus on congressional elections, that saw a renewed for the Democrats in both houses...
    -Wilson, C. Tombyll, Harvard, 1987

    The United States presidential election of 1916 was the 33rd quadrennial presidential election, held on Tuesday, November 7, 1916. Incumbent Democratic President Woodrow Wilson defeated Senator Elihu Root, the Republican candidate, and Governor Hiram Johnson, the Progressive candidate.
    -1916 United States Presidential Election, Omnipedia

    Capture d’écran 2019-03-28 à 16.55.39.png

    Capture d’écran 2019-03-28 à 16.23.26.png

    Capture d’écran 2019-03-28 à 12.51.52.png

    TL;DR : Woodrow Wilson wins re-election against a divided Republican Party.
  15. MaskedPickle Well-Known Member

    I doubt that London would like having a continental foothold mere miles from its shores, even more a foreign sovereign. But wait and see...

    I edited that. I wanted to relay the opinion that the Irish are nothing more than an undisciplined rabble.
    Whiteshore and Ogrebear like this.
  16. galileo-034 Extreme Centrist Conspirator

    Jul 14, 2010
    Baiona , Ipar Euskal Herria (Bayonne, FR)
    Hi, I made a little svg electoral map (attached as .txt, but you can just rename it into .svg for the infobox).

    There a png view :

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Apr 9, 2019
  17. Ogrebear Well-Known Member

    Apr 14, 2012
    Certainly very interesting so far. President Wilson back again will be differant.

    Will you be using OC’s or sticking with known figures from real life?
  18. Threadmarks: Chapter Thirteen : One Wedding and Many Funerals

    MaskedPickle Well-Known Member

    -The New York Times, August, 3 1916

    Capture d’écran 2019-04-01 à 10.40.53.png

    The lavish ceremony that Grand Duchess Tatiana Nikolaevna of Russia’s betrothal to Crown Prince Alexander of Serbia was somehow tarnished by the Macedonian Uprising, that occurred on the same date, coinciding with the short-lived proclamation of the Krusevo Republic in 1903.
    Macedonia had been a hot spot of the Balkan Wars : claimed by Bulgaria through the nationalist organization IMRO (Internal Macedonian Revolutionary Organization), that played a decisive role in Bulgarian politics, it had been occupied and integrated into Serbia after the Second Balkan War (1913). Dreaming of a greater Macedonia that would extend from Skopje to Salonika, the IMRO had enjoyed the support of the Bulgarian Empire and was pushing for military action against Serbia, Greece and the Ottoman Empire (powers that occupied territories claimed by Bulgaria). Todor Aleksandrov, leader of the IMRO, loaded with Bulgarian weapons, had crossed the border during the night of August,2 to 3 and managed to occupy the city of Radovis, proclaiming its annexation to Bulgaria.
    As all royals, including Nicholas II, father of the bride, were congregated in Belgrad for the royal wedding, they tried to avoid a new Balkan War to explode over Macedonia, as it would most certainly lead to a greater war in Europe. Other Balkanic powers agreed to keep in check to wait for further developments ; Crown Prince Alexander, who had been assuring executive power since the semi-retirement of his father, the old King Peter, had a strong feeling of bravado : his wedding was sealing the alliance with Russia, Serbia was doing great in Albania, it had already defeated once Bulgaria, and now, it wouldn’t be Macedonian rabble that were able to defeat his troops. Nevertheless, Nicholas refused to pledge his support behind Serbia : he had plans to have his third daughter, Maria, marry the Crown Prince of Bulgaria, he didn’t wanted to have unrest between his Orthodox natural allies in the Balkans and was focused on internal reforms and modernization. He preferred to wait a few years more to become a true behemoth in Europe and by dealing in backrooms during the wedding, he didn’t feel pressured by Russian opinion. Germany was too content to have Serbia distracted with his neighbour, as his Austro-Hungarian ally wouldn’t have to deal on another front in the South in case of a new European conflict.
    That’s how Serbia declared war on Bulgaria one month later, trigerring the Fourth Balkan War…
    -The Sleeping Bear : Russia in the Twentieth Century, M. Golkov, Petrograd, 2003

    Capture d’écran 2019-04-01 à 12.34.53.png

    The Fourth Balkan War became a show of Serbian self-indulgence, over-confidence and arrogance, and the first step of future King Alexander II’s hubris : without support from Russia and unprepared, the Serbian Army was routed in six months by a much larger, better prepared and revenge-driven Bulgarian Army, that enjoyed German and Austro-Hungarian support and Russian neutrality. In a humiliating settlement in Naples that was forgotten during the turmoil of the Great European War, Serbia had to cede Vardar Macedonia to Bulgaria, cancelling the effect of the Treaty of London in 1913. Bulgaria enjoyed renewed strength in the aftermath of the conflict while the prestige of Serbia was deeply diminished, while Albanian rebels were forcing Serbian troops to withdraw from Albania in 1918.
    The Fourth Balkan War is interesting for military historians because it saw the first military deployment of landships, in the presence at the Battle of Morava of Bulgarian Vezdekhod landships, purchased from Russia in 1915. If the two engines proved ineffectual and difficult to manoeuver and not no influence whatsoever in the battle, its shock and awe value was assessed in the course of the battle and influenced all military engineers throughout Europe…
    -Balkans for Dummies, New York, 2013

    Colonel Dragutin Dimitrijevic, leader of the group that had overthrown Alexander Obrenovic in 1903 and alleged spymaster of Serbia, attempted a coup against Crown Prince Alexander on June, 24 1917, in the months following the Fourth Balkan War; the Crown Prince had seen the military clique surrounding his father, commanded by Dimitrijevic, as the main cause behind the military debacle in Macedonia. Attempting to storm the royal palace in Belgrad, the putschists were quickly disposed of by the palace guards and Dimitrijevic was killed...
    -Alexander of Serbia, A. Janosevic, Belgrad, 1992

    Capture d’écran 2017-10-27 à 12.10.59.png

    TL;DR : A war is fought in 1916-1917 between Serbia and Bulgaria over Macedonia; Bulgaria wins the war and regains Vardar Macedonia (OTL North Macedonia). Grand Duchess Tatiana, second daughter of Nicholas II, marries Crown Prince Alexander of Serbia.
  19. MaskedPickle Well-Known Member

    Thank you ! Where did you do this electoral map ? I made mine on USElectionAtlas...

    I will be sticking to real-life figures. I believe in the forces of butterflies but it doesn't apply to the Twentieth Century.
    Electric Monk likes this.
  20. MaskedPickle Well-Known Member

    The next update will be quite big (I think you will guess what is it about), so please wait :)
    Ogrebear likes this.