The Legendary Confederacy: A Chronicle of the Southern War of Independence

You could about do anything this early in the war. Since many officers were political appointees with little or no military experience, anything could happen. Units could not or would not move up as expected, or they would charge off into the wild blue yonder. Trying to move a large army like the Army of Indiana would be like herding an army of stray cats.

Not going to happen very smoothly!

I think one or more qualified leaders on the Southern side, plus a couple of disciplined units, at the proper place and time, could swing things your way. Your story line way!

:cool:
 
You could about do anything this early in the war. Since many officers were political appointees with little or no military experience, anything could happen. Units could not or would not move up as expected, or they would charge off into the wild blue yonder. Trying to move a large army like the Army of Indiana would be like herding an army of stray cats.

Not going to happen very smoothly!

I think one or more qualified leaders on the Southern side, plus a couple of disciplined units, at the proper place and time, could swing things your way. Your story line way!

:cool:


Thank you. Next update will be about the Confederate Planning for the battle of Louisville then Louisville itself (both for day one). I hope they both live up to your expectations my friend.

EDIT: Remember that the Union is more defending than attacking so for at least the First day, expect no real disorder in both forces.
 
Since you've (The South) been whupping butt for the first few battles, will you reflect the possibility of more Indiana and other Midwest Union militias being Federalized? Some would be decently drilled troops, but the majority would be ad hoc thrown together new units. So the Union may have more troops but boy oh BOY, they might really be lacking in combat power. Like in...DROP MUSKETS AND RUN AWAY!!!!!!!!!!!

:)

The other thing, which you've covered, is that decent reinforcements could be available, but those other fronts are in trouble too. The Union is running short of time here. Have you cut those rail lines yet in Ohio with Forrest or another cavalry commander?

Going back in time, one note about the Virginia/Merrimack. Realistically.......with it's poor engines and draught, it was pretty much confined to small part of it's Hampton Roads operational area. Not sure if it could catch up to the Armada and knock it about like you had it doing. There were many shallow shoals it could not get past/over, and it's seaworthiness.....it was lucky to make it to it's second day of battle for the Monitor dust-up!!!
 
Since you've (The South) been whupping butt for the first few battles, will you reflect the possibility of more Indiana and other Midwest Union militias being Federalized? Some would be decently drilled troops, but the majority would be ad hoc thrown together new units. So the Union may have more troops but boy oh BOY, they might really be lacking in combat power. Like in...DROP MUSKETS AND RUN AWAY!!!!!!!!!!!

:)

The other thing, which you've covered, is that decent reinforcements could be available, but those other fronts are in trouble too. The Union is running short of time here. Have you cut those rail lines yet in Ohio with Forrest or another cavalry commander?

Going back in time, one note about the Virginia/Merrimack. Realistically.......with it's poor engines and draught, it was pretty much confined to small part of it's Hampton Roads operational area. Not sure if it could catch up to the Armada and knock it about like you had it doing. There were many shallow shoals it could not get past/over, and it's seaworthiness.....it was lucky to make it to it's second day of battle for the Monitor dust-up!!!

Yes, after Louisville, the Peninsula Campaign, and Port Republic, expect a federalizing of all Midwestern militias into either the AoIL (Army of Illinois) or AoIN, which lessens the army qualities.

Forrest has not yet conducted a raid in Ohio as of yet because Johnston needs his cavalry until the 1862 Kentucky Campaign is over. Once it is over, expect a small tidbit on Forrest destroying the Infrastructure of Ohio before returning to Kentucky before the AoIN can catch up.

For the Virginia, it was a built better than OTL which allows it to be able to cause real mayhem outside of Hampton Roads.

EDIT: Also, I'm using the UG:CW system as it's very realistic (for example: if you win Shiloh as the Confederacy, the battle of Gaine's Mill has less Forces and Supplies for the Union than IOTL)
 
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Chapter Five: Gateway to the Midwest - Confederate Perspective at Louisville (Day 1)
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Taken from “The Raging River’s Army: the Battles of the Army of Mississippi” by Steven Paul (1998) [Chapter 8: Mississippi's baptism by fire at Louisville]


Following the Battle of Perryville, the Army of Mississippi, under the command of General Albert Sidney Johnston, had a high point in Morale while also having more supplies than their Union adversary. It was the second largest army for the Confederates during the War of Southern Independence as it stood at 49,600. Though smaller than its Rival, it made up for this in discipline and brilliant officers, such as Patrick Cleburne or Leonidas Polk who led the troops to battle, giving a veteran advantage to the relatively untrained Union Army, which was a major reason why the AoIN lost at Perryville.


Lieutenant General Nathan Bedford Forrest requested to lead an expedition into the Union state of Ohio in order to cause General mayhem in the Union itself. General Johnston rejected the idea as he needed his cavalry for reconnaissance in Kentucky until Victory was assured. As he arrived on the Battlefield, Albert Sidney Johnston called all of his Generals into his tent to call for a meeting on the plan for the battle ahead.


Taken from “The Tennessee Attila: A Biography of Nathan Bedford Forrest” by Nathan Bedford Forrest (1891) [Chapter 7]


It was 8 in the morning when General Johnson ordered all his Generals, including myself, to meet him in his tent to go over the plan he developed. After I walked into the tent, he began talking. “It's good that you're here gentlemen. What you need to do is listen and if you have any, and I mean any, criticisms or improvements to the plan that you can suggest, please do as every voice can help here.” A yes sir filled the air before Johnston spoke again. Pointing a Finger at Major General Hardee, he began. “Hardee, you will be the center for this battle. Your Corps goal will be the first expected diversion that the Union will think will happen. When you get 10 paces away from them, bombard them with your artillery but do little else. We don't want to lose men with an attack that's unneeded. Don't attack with Infantry unless you can clearly see a way to win. Understood?” Hardee, after some thinking, nodded.


“Yes, General. I think my men will be able to do just that to full effectiveness.” Hardee said proudly. General Johnston then turned to Major General Leonidas Polk.


“Polk, you will be the main diversion that the Yanks will worry about. Your goal is to simply divert Union reserves from going to their Left Flank for as long as possible. Of course, if you have an opportunity to pierce their lines, do just that and do what you think you can successfully do. Again, an unnecessary attack will lead to unnecessary deaths, something we can’t afford.” Polk nodded in acknowledgement. Johnston then turned to Major General Alexander Peter Stewart. “Stewart, you will be the main attack and where we put a majority of our efforts. The III Corps will attack the Yankee Left flank and breakthrough it. Once achieved, continue to push until they have split completely from the Yankee center and roll up their center. Hopefully, if we’re fortunate, we can end this battle by the end of today. If Union resistance ever gets too strong, withdraw. We need to keep up or strength to secure the rest of Kentucky with Breckenridge.”


“Of course sir, I will do as ordered.” Stewart replied. My friend, Major General Patrick Cleburne looked curiously at the map and the plans.


“Hold on General, the Union could’ve placed a diversion force that will keep us busy for a short time as they continue to better prepare our defenses.” He said aloud.


Johnston looked thoughtful for a second. “Yes...that does sound like something they might do. What do you suggest, Cleburne?” He asked as Cleburne took a small stick from the ground.


“This idea may sound a bit insane but instead of falling into their trap and be slowed down, the I Corps, which is under the command of Major General Polk, attacks the Union right Flank while the III Corp, under Major General Stewart attacks the Left Flank. With two attacks happening simultaneously, The cover yanks will have no choice but to withdraw to help support their force, allowing the II Corps to march in relatively unscathed and battle the Union center.” He said, using the stick to show the directions of the forces on the Battlefield.


Johnston smiled and nodded, looking appreciative at Cleburne. “Thank you, Patrick. We may make a future Corps commander of you yet.” Cleburne visibly glowed at the praise. He would and in fact did deserve his army command. How he performed at Holly Springs, Nashville, Richmond, Perryville, and Jeffersontown gave enough proof for that. With the plan now fixed accordingly, Johnston added that if the battle wasn’t over on the first day, The Army of Mississippi would instead lock down and battle the yanks until the Army of Kentucky, under the command of Major General John Cabell Breckenridge, arrived to serve as our reserves. Cleburne was put in command of his own division and the division of Kirby Smith, who himself was wounded only a day prior at Jeffersontown and wouldn’t return until August at the best. Major General Benjamin Franklin Cheatham was also put in the II Corps with Cleburne. Serving in Cleburne’s division, I of course would help would help the II Corp keep reconnaissance for the battle. As I walked out of the tent and saddled, I could only think of how successful this battle may be.

Thoughts? Criticisms? Ideas? Leave them below.
 
Good call on holding back Forrest, we know what happened to Lee when Stuart went off on his wild ride!

Recon is the first step of any battle, proper deployment the second. If you have those two covered you start out TWO steps ahead of your foe.

You may quote ME on that one!

:)

You know if you let Forrest pursue a broken enemy, you would have lots less prisoners to worry about.......plus a lot of "free" supplies to add to the cause.

"10-4 Good Buddy" (;)) on the seaworthiness of the Virginia, I need to go back and catch up on your whole narrative. Supplies were the bane of the Southern existence, once the North's blockade had kicked in fully and they had taken away many coastal ports, it was about over. That and splitting the Confederacy in two, which you are covering here.

I may need to check out that game you mentioned!

Keep it up!!!
 
Good call on holding back Forrest, we know what happened to Lee when Stuart went off on his wild ride!

Recon is the first step of any battle, proper deployment the second. If you have those two covered you start out TWO steps ahead of your foe.

You may quote ME on that one!

:)

You know if you let Forrest pursue a broken enemy, you would have lots less prisoners to worry about.......plus a lot of "free" supplies to add to the cause.

"10-4 Good Buddy" (;)) on the seaworthiness of the Virginia, I need to go back and catch up on your whole narrative. Supplies were the bane of the Southern existence, once the North's blockade had kicked in fully and they had taken away many coastal ports, it was about over. That and splitting the Confederacy in two, which you are covering here.

I may need to check out that game you mentioned!

Keep it up!!!


I shall quote you on it. The problem with Forrest chasing the AoIN is that Louisville literally touches the Ohio River so he would need Pontoon bridges to get into Ohio (WAS ;) ) The CSA is starting to build a few more Ironclads and they will be used to cause temporary cracks in the blockade that can allow France to trade with them and give them supplies. The Union will try to split the CSA in two one last time in 1863. Remember that while Kentucky is on the path to being consolidated by the Confederates, Missouri is till the bigger one that has better access to the Mississippi. Anyways, thank you. I hope I won't disappoint you in the next updates (maybe win a Turtledove in the future if I continue to impress, but I might be a bit too ambitious rn. :p )
 
in OTL Forrest doesn't become a Major General until December of 1863 and he doesn't make Lieutenant General until February of 1865. He also gains prominence and reputation heavily due to his actions against Grant's supply lines down at Vicksburg and he manages to recruit during that campaign. Seems a little crazy that he'd end up this much farther ahead this much faster without more development and some really exceptional circumstances.

I enjoy playing UG:CW but if using it as a model for battles in a TL it's worth remembering the casualties are incredibly ramped up in that game and it's embarrassingly easy to run encirclements and flank attacks on enemies in ways that were actually incredibly exceptional circumstances in the real world. The God's eye view giving you God like powers is really satisfying but doesn't make for a realistic counterfactual either. It's very satisfying to play but it's pretty easy to make every battle a near total victory in a way that makes it an unrealistic battle or campaign sim.
 
in OTL Forrest doesn't become a Major General until December of 1863 and he doesn't make Lieutenant General until February of 1865. He also gains prominence and reputation heavily due to his actions against Grant's supply lines down at Vicksburg and he manages to recruit during that campaign. Seems a little crazy that he'd end up this much farther ahead this much faster without more development and some really exceptional circumstances.

I enjoy playing UG:CW but if using it as a model for battles in a TL it's worth remembering the casualties are incredibly ramped up in that game and it's embarrassingly easy to run encirclements and flank attacks on enemies in ways that were actually incredibly exceptional circumstances in the real world. The God's eye view giving you God like powers is really satisfying but doesn't make for a realistic counterfactual either. It's very satisfying to play but it's pretty easy to make every battle a near total victory in a way that makes it an unrealistic battle or campaign sim.

I don't use it as a standard for battles, I just use it as a module to measure reinforcements for battles and Supplies (for theatres like 15% less supplies and 10% less men for the following battle).

For Forrest, I guess I'll edit have him be a colonel, which iirc is what he was at this point in time. Thank you for pointing this out.
 

Edward IX

Banned
I will follow this with interest, Cleburne and his "Rising of the Moon" flag have always interested me.

As a fan of the West, please kill John Bell Hood.
 
Another Lost Causer thread...it seems to be that season.


to simply dismiss a TL as "another Lost Causer thread' makes you seem snobbish and elitist. You can give legitimate criticisms that can actually help in the development of this TL...or you can be a D**k. You have sadly chosen the latter. I prefer legitimate criticisms rather than a huff, sigh, and elitist attitude, otherwise you're ignored by me.

I get it, there are a lot of ACW threads about the CSA winning. There are many "Lost Causer" threads. But a simple fact was that from 1861-1862, the Union had the numbers and industry but did not have the experience or discipline to beat the CSA. You can't ignore this. so cram that Elitist views away and read and actually give me your thoughts, not act like an American critic of a Mark Twain book.
 
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