The Legacy of the Glorious (Milarqui's Cut)

Discussion in 'Alternate History Discussion: Before 1900' started by Milarqui, Apr 8, 2012.

  1. nlucasm from the Chilean Wallmapu

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    Don't worry... It's logicall for Spain to ally Peru, and IMO if Chile is going to be defeated in TTL Pacific War, the best way to do it is against Miguel Grau, the only enemy in OTL remembered here in Chile as a hero.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hu%C3%A1scar_%28ship%29
    (the wikipedia page from the Huascar, a ship original from the Peruvian Navy and captured during the war by Chile, now a floating museum.... 15 minutes in car from my home ! )
     
    Last edited: May 12, 2012
  2. Archangel Battery-powered Bureaucrat

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    Linense is right. There was a creole population of Portuguese ancestry in Ziguinchor (Casamance).
    This link seems to be very interesting about the subject (Edit: Hope this link goes more direct to the part referent to Ziguinchor history).


    Keep it up, Milarqui!:)
     
    Last edited: May 13, 2012
  3. ramones1986 Grumpy and Lazy

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    Cordillera

    Why not, Milarqui!

    The Cordillera Central is the main mountain range located in the northern part of the island of Luzon. This is the home of the indigenous people collectively known as the Igorot

    Though there is a presence of the Spanish authorities in some parts of the region (mostly in the comarca* of Abra, inhabited by indigenous Tingguians and mixed Tingguian-Ilocano population, mostly settled in towns), it was until the middle of the 19th century that the exploration of Cordilleras started in an extensive manner.
    Until then, it was called as la Cordillera misteriosa (The mysterious mountains) because of the fact has not yet been extensively explored.
    The first explorers of the region were the soldiers assigned to the newly-built garrisons in the mountain range. They were amazed by the majestic beauty of the mountains, especially the rice terraces and the unique culture of the Igorots.

    *Note: In the Philippine context in this timelime, a comarca is equivalent to a province in OTL Philippines

    (Well, that's enough for me. Pardon me if this is bad.)


    Thanks and keep it up
     
    Last edited: May 15, 2012
  4. ramones1986 Grumpy and Lazy

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    flag and coat of arms

    The flag and coat of arms is nice, though I have some question about the enté en point (the coat of arms of the Kingdom of Granada):
    -Instead of plain white, why you used the colors of the flag of the city of Granada (red and green)?

    I hope you understand my question.
     
  5. Jonathan Edelstein Rooted Cosmopolitan

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    So which ones have administrative autonomy and which have political autonomy - is it only the overseas regions such as Cuba and Puerto Rico that have the latter, or do some of the Spanish regions also have their own parliaments? Do the Foral Regions have the same historic rights as the foral provinces of the Basque country?

    Also, do the "administrative" foral regions have control over language rights and education? If these matters are controlled centrally, that could be a very divisive issue down the line.

    Fair enough. I assume that foral autonomy will help to mollify the more moderate nationalists and prevent pro-independence sentiment from becoming a majority opinion.

    It's been a long time since Carlos I, though, and diversity is much easier to tolerate in a feudal state than in a 19th-century nationalist state. Still, if the proponents of diversity can point to a great king as their inspiration and argue that they are only preserving the historic rights of the people, then it will be easier to reconcile the rights granted to the Foral Regions with nationalist sentiment.

    If Franco could do it, the liberal kingdom certainly can.
     
  6. Milarqui Bloguero de Historia Alterna

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    Thanks to everyone!

    @Faralis, Razgriz 2K9: Linense is right, the eagle is Charles I's.

    @Razgriz 2K9, Linense: Yes, the Philippines are evolutioning quite well towards modernization.

    @Razgriz 2K9: Well, Dahomey is right now a bit far away from the Spanish zone of influence, but it is yet possible for them to go there.

    @Linense, Archangel: I have corrected the name. I used Gambia because I saw that name next to Portuguese Guinea and I got confused.

    @ramones 1986: Thanks for the info on the Cordillera Central! I will mention it as part of the Spanish exploration and expansion efforts. About the reason I used the red-and-green background for the part about Granada... well, I thought it looked better this way. Besides, it paves the way for future developments :).

    @Jonathan Edelstein: the answers to your questions.
    1: The ones with political autonomy are, right now, Cuba and Puerto Rico. The ones with administrative autonomy are the thirteen that form Spain proper (Andalucía, Aragón, Bética, Castilla La Nueva, Castilla La Vieja, Cataluña, Extremadura, Galicia, León, Levante, Vascongadas). The Philippines are, right now, a colony, although soon they will have political autonomy.
    2: The Foral Regions do have some control over administrative issues, like the Basque Country had before, but those are the same for all Regions, and they are smaller.
    3: Second languages (Catalan, Valencian, Galician, Basque) are taught at schools, but they are used only in those classes, most classes are taught in Spanish.
    4: Indeed. Some autonomy now will prevent the "explosion" of nationalism later, although, of course, there will always be some groups that demand further autonomy or independence.
    5: Diversity can still happen in a nationalist state. It is a matter of how to put it. For example, the USA is formed by many different "nationalities", and yet they form one nation that encompasses them all.
    6: In Franco's time, decolonization was the order of the day, and most of Africa was becoming independent then, so Franco looked to trying to keep Guinea and Western Sahara into remaining as a part of Spain. Now, we are at the time of the Scramble for Africa/African Division, and most European territories in there are very small, and there are not enough white European people to consider their becoming autonomous. Once infrastructure is developed well enough, and the Spanish people realise that the African people are perfectly able to engage in politics, Guinea and all Spanish territories will become Foral Regions. But not yet.
     
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2012
  7. Razgriz 2K9 Banned

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    So these Foral Regions, will they act in a similar matter to Great Britain and it's Commonwealth?
     
  8. Herr Frage Jesus Christ Is In Heaven

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    I am guessing the Corsican Kingdom will not last long.

    Unlike Taiwan the global situation is multisided. I am guessing the reason it remains independent at the moment is reluctance on the neighboring powers to let France get a province back.

    Republic of China support from the West was because of both wartime alliance with the Nationalist regime and overriding fear of the Red Menace. Royalist France inspires no such feelings in such powerful circles.

    And the Bonapartes are not the darling of any other great power.

    My guess is that with ten years France or Italy will conquer the Corsican Kingdom. France may give Italy reluctant blessings, safer all even if it makes Corsica harder to recover Napoleon IV is far less dangerous as a deposed king than ruler of a renegade kingdom.

    More likely though Britain will need France's support at some point and will give the go ahead to Paris. Spain will not care greatly since Napoleon III invaded their country, Italy will grumble because it wanted it. And other nations have no great investment in the country to warrant more that vocal protest.

    The long term result of the Napoleonic Kingdom in this scenario will probably be a greater Corsican nationalism and a resistance movement. Also possibly, the Bonapartes eventually returning to try to regain the island or mainland France.
     
    Last edited: May 15, 2012
  9. Cuāuhtemōc Instagram Fiend Banned

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    Very nice update! :)
     
  10. brokenman Kick-Lord of Mt. Invulnerable

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    This is very nice. Although a nitpick. Jose Rizal is also an essential part of the Filipino propagandist movement, and probably because of the reforms in the archipelago, it is very possible that he will take residence in Spain, and with his other associates might take up the mantle of being the representative of the islands in the Spain.

    And for the reforms to be successful in the islands, you must implement a land or agrarian reform, distribute the massive haciendas and plantations to the farmers, then lend them aid to start their business cooperatives. That way, you could assure the loyalty of the populace to the Spanish regime.

    EDIT: It is also necessary to teach Spanish to them as their lingua franca instead of the local languages.
     
  11. Milarqui Bloguero de Historia Alterna

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    Razgriz2K9: No. They are more like the States of the USA, but with a bit of more control from the capital.

    Herr Frage: it is a fairly good analysis. Right now, Italy and France are not chummy with each other, and both of them want Corsica, so it acts as a sort of buffer, one that the British are interested in maintaining, even if they do not care a lot about Napoleon IV. They do know that the French people do not care much now about him, and that they would not accept him back. Though, the moment France and Italy enter a war, expect Corsica to become a battlefield. Or, as you said, if Britain needs French help, they will likely tell France to go ahead and put down the Corsicans.

    Cuauhtemoc: thanks!

    brokenman: don't understand what the nitpick is.
    - Yeah, Rizal is very likely to become an important deputy to the Spanish Congress, representing the Philippines (I can even see him becoming someone like Daniel Inouye, who became Senator for Hawaii in 1963 and is still ongoing).
    - As for the agrarian reforms, I have already shown that the Governor-General of the Philippines expropriated the Church lands and had them sold to Ilustrados and other small owners, in order to avoid the problem that happened when Mendizábal did that in Spain, landlordism (especially concentrated in Andalusia).
    - However, your suggestion would be something very difficult to implement, especially now that the Presidente is a conservative, as well as the fact that the Constitution protects private property. I can, though, believe that, as the Socialists become more important, the Democrat-Radicals might seek their support and the Socialist could name their price as the partial redistribution of lands to the farmers.
    - As for teaching Spanish... that is already happening. The schools are teaching the children in Spanish. When the Philippines gains Foral Region status, local languages may also be taught in the schools, but only in classes that are exclusively for that, not like it is being done now in Catalonia, where many times Spanish is only taught in the Spanish Language class.
     
  12. ramones1986 Grumpy and Lazy

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    - How about the possibility of converting the province of Madrid into a Special Region?
    - How about the Balearic Islands? The Region of Murcia? Navarra? The Principality of Asturias?
     
  13. Linense Well-Known Member

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    If I'm right, I think that:

    • Asturias will be included in León;
    • Navarra will be included in Vascongadas;
    • Murcia will be included in Betica;
    • and Balearic Islands will be included in Levante.
     
    Last edited: May 16, 2012
  14. Milarqui Bloguero de Historia Alterna

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    That's correct.
     
  15. Herr Frage Jesus Christ Is In Heaven

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    With all the posts detailing the government of Leopoldine Spain, I was wondering if we might see a post on matters to the north and east?

    I am curious about the situation in France under the new Orleanist regime. Likewise on how the Corsican kingdom is being run. And of course what butterflies may come as they interact with the world.

    I imagine the Orleanists will be eager to have some victory abroad to legitimize their rule. King Napoleon may also try and grab some piece of Africa to gain glory and legitimacy for his kingdom. Corsican colonies, especially ironic if they fly the old Corsican flag!
     
  16. ramones1986 Grumpy and Lazy

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    Oh, OK. Quite similiar to Tocomocho's idea, though I admit that I would expect that your idea is a bit different, as you stated before. (sorry, Milarqui. Hope you understand)
    oh, I forgot to ask: how about Canarias?
    what is the status of Madrid Province?
     
  17. Goldstein By the way, it is Goldstein. Banned

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    GAAAH! Murcia can, must and will stand alone! The Southeast will rise again! :mad:

    Just kidding. Nice to see this premise back. I'll be following this.
     
  18. hsthompson Logic and sanity are overrated

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    I do have to point out that the distinction between Catalan and Valencian as separate languages is a 20th century creation, and a political one at that.

    The standard for the language might be different to its OTL form -Pompeu Fabra hadn't written his grammar yet- One possibility might be to have a standard for the language based on usage, such as the one for English, instead of the academic one (French, Spanish, Catalan to a degree)

    Orthography, being the component with the least consensus, might be strikingly different: add ñ, perhaps even ł, or go the other way and remove ç. Perhaps one common orthography for all Spanish languages, based on Castillian, with addenda for phonemes that do not exist in it.

    Anyway, I digress. Having two regions with the same language, but two standards, mirrors OTL's attempts to "divide and rule", so to speak, so it wouldn't be precisely ASB to see it here as well.

    Your call, anyway. I love to read this anyhow. Do go on.
     
  19. Goldstein By the way, it is Goldstein. Banned

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    It would still happen that Catalan would be called Valencian in Valencia, IMO. "Valencian" is a glotonym: It doesn't neccesarily denotates that it's a different language from Catalan (even if IOTL some people with a political agenda pretend it is), just that Valencian is the name the Catalan language receives in Valencia, as it happens with Serbian/Bosnian/Croatian, or with Romanian/Moldavian. I don't see why it should be different ITTL. Interesting takes on an alternate Catalan spelling, though.

    PS: Anyway, in some areas of the Valencian Community, Valencian is spoken so badly that it could stand as a language proper. A friend from Alicante once heard a guy in a restaurant asking "Un bocadill de jamó i ques" :p
     
    Last edited: May 17, 2012
  20. hsthompson Logic and sanity are overrated

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    Thoroughly agree with you there.

    Mind you, I still did have to point it out anyhow, since the list, as it was, read "Catalan, Valencian..."
    Which might be read to mean they are different languages.
    While "Valencian/Catalan" -or the reverse-would point out they are the same, under different names.

    Anyway, potato-potahto... Catalan-Valencian... let's call the whole thing off:D

    PS: It might have been a prank on the guy: someone telling him "it is the same as Spanish but without the ends of the words". Anyway, facepalm.
     
    Last edited: May 17, 2012