The Last Viking: Harold IV of England and the Third of Norway

All right, we often like to discuss what would have happened if Harold Godwinson had crushed William the Bastard at the Battle of Hastings. And, I feel, for good reason; its one of those few times in history when a single battle completely changed the development of a nation, its language, government and culture. (also, I love a good Harold Godwinson timeline!)

However, there has been a lot less discussion over the years of what could have happened in Harald Hardarda carried the day at Stanford Bridge. So, for sake of argument, lets say that at the end of the day Harald's raven flag stands in victory over the battlefield and, since I'm not feeling too generous, that annoying sot Tostig Godwinson also managed to survive unharmed.

Harald now has to rush south and secure London before William arrives and drive the Normans off in order to secure his own claim on England. Luckily, the fates are with him. Although tired, Harald's forces make the long march to Hastings, just as Harold's did in OTL. The ensuing battle is close but, the fates smile upon the Norwegians and William is thrown from his horse and trampled to death at some point in the conflict. The demoralized Normans soon break and are scattered. Harald is now left in control of all of England; a point that he forcibly makes to the nobles in London who, upon seeing the strength of his ... claim, formally declare him King.

Now what? (I have some ideas, but am more interesting in what others have to say. I will share them later)
 

Art

Monthly Donor
Harold the IV? The Fourth of England? Hardrada would only be the third!
 
I don't think Harald has to rush south, btw. Wessex was the heart of Harold's power, so he did...but I think Harald consolidates the north first. Plus, lightning marches were Harold's specialty, whereas Harald had never shown any particular tendencies that way...amphibious assaults and defending River crossings seem more his style. So, supposing he did move south, it would likely be by sea, allowing him to choose his moment and meeting place.
 
I don't think Harald has to rush south, btw. Wessex was the heart of Harold's power, so he did...but I think Harald consolidates the north first. Plus, lightning marches were Harold's specialty, whereas Harald had never shown any particular tendencies that way...amphibious assaults and defending River crossings seem more his style. So, supposing he did move south, it would likely be by sea, allowing him to choose his moment and meeting place.

I like this. So, you think Harald would secure his power in Northumbria and the old Danelaw and then launch an seat attack against William once he felt comfortable. This would give him a chance to draw more soldiers to his cause and possibly use diplomacy to present himself as the rightful ruler of England. Do you think William would be welcomed in Wessex and London in such a scenario?
 

Deleted member 97083

I don't think Harald has to rush south, btw. Wessex was the heart of Harold's power, so he did...but I think Harald consolidates the north first. Plus, lightning marches were Harold's specialty, whereas Harald had never shown any particular tendencies that way...amphibious assaults and defending River crossings seem more his style. So, supposing he did move south, it would likely be by sea, allowing him to choose his moment and meeting place.
Moving by sea is expensive and would only be necessary if he hadn't already taken the north, or if he wanted to escape. Once he has taken the north, he'd probably march to London overland.
 
I like this. So, you think Harald would secure his power in Northumbria and the old Danelaw and then launch an seat attack against William once he felt comfortable. This would give him a chance to draw more soldiers to his cause and possibly use diplomacy to present himself as the rightful ruler of England. Do you think William would be welcomed in Wessex and London in such a scenario?
Possibly in London but unclear how Wessex would stand
 
So, assuming that Harald defeats the Bastard and secures the thrown, how does this impact the development of England and Norway?
 

Deleted member 97083

So, assuming that Harald defeats the Bastard and secures the thrown, how does this impact the development of England and Norway?
Harald Hardrada would have to fight his southern vassals to take control, especially the Godwinsons who ruled the southeast and would inherit Harold's lands in the south. Still, it wouldn't reach the extent of William's Harrying of the North or decades of resistance.

In the long term, England would probably have a better naval tradition, but a worse heavy cavalry and castle-building tradition. Since medieval navies, other than those of the Byzantines, were not really fit for defensive maneuvers, England might be vulnerable to further invasion later due to its poorer fortifications and lack of knights.

Depending on what happens in the Mediterranean, England could possibly align more to the Orthodox side of Christianity in terms of rites, as the Scandinavians were focused more on the East at this time. Nominally of course, they would still be Catholic, and likely participate in Crusades.

Norway would eventually become a backwater, but the conquest of England will reinvigorate their power over the North Sea for decades. If Sweyn II tries to invade England, I wonder if Harald or his successor will try to invade and conquer Denmark.
 
One of the ideas I personally had was that Olaf II of Norway in OTL, Harald's son, was one of the first kings to work to build cities in Norway. Now, I figure that Harald will likely split his kingdoms up after his death, but that England and Norway could be reunited under Olaf if Magnus dies early. In such a situation, if Olaf is still interested in building cities, he would likely look to those of his English realm for inspiration. Since the English also had a better developed urban tradition, it might even make sense for him to invite English settlers over to Norway to help populate his new cities.

Not only would this create stronger trade and cultural links between the English and Norwegians, it might also give Norway an edge in population over its Scandinavian neighbors; especially if England and Norway remain united for another generation or so afterwards.
 
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