Would the American Indian Federation be a powerful force for the United States to fight

  • Yes

  • No

  • Not a powerful enemy, but could hold itself off, and destabilize America.


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Background

During World war 2 there was a group of Native Americans called the "American Indian Federation" These native Americans were Nazi Sympathizers. This is an untold story of World war 2. They were fascist Sympathizers and supporters of the Nazi Powers. In fact, the leading member nicknamed "Red Chief Cloud" He was such a supporter of the Nazi's, he openly wore Swastikas. He was also Anti-Semitic, claiming the Jews were "Children of Satan" and "controlled Indian service"

This my friends is the interesting part......

The Nazi's themselves actually loved the Native Americans so much, they said after they won the war, and invaded America with the Japanese, Germany, in fact, promised to return Native American land back to the Native Americans. If you think the Nazi's just wanted to overthrow America, wellllll the thing is the Nazi party before then openly stated the Native Americans as Aryans.

Even more interestingly

Hitler himself actually was one of the biggest supporters of Native Americans on earth. In his Youth, Hitler read the book "Cowboys and Indians" by Karl May. Hitler whenever he read the book always felt transported into this world he made. Germans did not have the same hatred of Native Americans as "Savages". The book portrays them as honourable, and not as savages. His books about the American west were actually flooding the German book market even before World war 1 during the reign of the Kaiser. When he read the books, he even started to notice a "slight decline in grades" while this is far from the truth, Hitler loved the history, and culture of the Native Americans, and their primal history. The Nazi's, and Hitler loved Native Americans, and many Native Americans, like the Sioux, loved them too.

Red Chief Cloud stated he had an Army of 750,000 Native Americans ready to fight on the side of the Axis powers.

Point of Divergence

So......I was wondering. What if in an Alternate timeline, Hitler, and the Nazi's allied with the American Indian Federation, and the Native Americans 750,000 claimed men went to war with the United States right after Pearl harbour, and the Nazi declaration of war on America. Would they do serious damage to the United States? How would this affect the world? And today, would the Neo-Nazi's stance on Native Americans, be positive.

From the Crossing of the Bering to the Mexicanas, from Tawantinsuyu to the Mississippi, from the contact from Satan to the expulsion, from manifest destiny to the slaughter.............

This is the world of the Last Primal stand.......
 
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Can you cite any sources for any of this? Firstly, I can't find a reputable source that identifies the American Indian Federation as a bunch of "Nazi/Fascist sympathizers". As a matter of fact, the one source I can find on the group (Wikipedia) says that, while the AIF existed into the 1940s, it had all but fallen apart by 1939. Secondly, I have a hard time imagining the Nazis would just give up the lands of the United States to any group of Native Americans. They might consider them honorary Aryans, but it's doubtful that such a status would entitle them to the entirety of North America. And finally, even if the AIF did exist in the Nazi-sympathizing manner you suggest, I can't imagine any realistic scenario where they'd have enough power to severely impact the US government. It's an interesting idea, but it rests on (what would seem to be) flimsy research.
 
Can you cite any sources for any of this? Firstly, I can't find a reputable source that identifies the American Indian Federation as a bunch of "Nazi/Fascist sympathizers". As a matter of fact, the one source I can find on the group (Wikipedia) says that, while the AIF existed into the 1940s, it had all but fallen apart by 1939. Secondly, I have a hard time imagining the Nazis would just give up the lands of the United States to any group of Native Americans. They might consider them honorary Aryans, but it's doubtful that such a status would entitle them to the entirety of North America. And finally, even if the AIF did exist in the Nazi-sympathizing manner you suggest, I can't imagine any realistic scenario where they'd have enough power to severely impact the US government. It's an interesting idea, but it rests on (what would seem to be) flimsy research.

I do have some some sources, I just thought it'd be a good, and interesting scenario. I've been here one month. I just get bored of the same Alternate history scenarios. I read about this, and I thought it would be interesting.
https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/1liw19/the_nazis_view_on_native_americans
http://listverse.com/2017/08/20/10-plans-hitler-would-have-put-in-motion-if-the-nazis-had-won/
https://www.thevintagenews.com/2016...ed-sioux-extension-native-americans-aryans-2/

Sorry, I might have put that down incorrectly. I didn't mean Native Americans would control ALL of America, but natives like the Sioux would receive land they'd previously lost decades ago from America, like pre-Sioux wars. Same goes for other tribes. If the group had fallen, we could arrange something else where it's various tribes like the Sioux or the five civilized tribes. It may not severely impact the U.S, but the effects of the war, culture, and post-war would be interesting. I'm not talking "Axis win because of 750,000 Native Americans" I know they will lose, but this is interesting to me.
 
Like I said, it's an interesting idea for sure. My biggest issue, though, is that even if parts of this are true, there's no way that "Chief Red Cloud" (better known as Portland attorney Elwood A. Towner, per Listverse.com) had anywhere near 750,000 Native American men prepared to take up arms against the US government. As pissed off as they were (and rightly so), Native Americans by this time probably realized that armed struggle against the US government would never end well for them. I just don't see this getting off the ground, at least in the way you're hoping it would.

That being said, the point of this website is to do what you find interesting. It's important to keep things within the realm of plausibility, but there is a board on here where you can post any kind of timeline you like, plausible or not. If you're really interested in putting together a timeline revolving around this idea, this would be the place to do it.
 
Like I said, it's an interesting idea for sure. My biggest issue, though, is that even if parts of this are true, there's no way that "Chief Red Cloud" (better known as Portland attorney Elwood A. Towner, per Listverse.com) had anywhere near 750,000 Native American men prepared to take up arms against the US government. As pissed off as they were (and rightly so), Native Americans by this time probably realized that armed struggle against the US government would never end well for them. I just don't see this getting off the ground, at least in the way you're hoping it would.

That being said, the point of this website is to do what you find interesting. It's important to keep things within the realm of plausibility, but there is a board on here where you can post any kind of timeline you like, plausible or not. If you're really interested in putting together a timeline revolving around this idea, this would be the place to do it.


Yeah, I thought the 750,000 men thing was WAY too much. We could later find a better more respective estimate for his forces. Yes, I even thought about that armed struggle would be pointless, and while many would disagree with fighting back, I could still see that nationalism in the Native Americans. Especially if you give the talent of public speaking figures like Hitler had to rile up the crowd into raising arms. Especially at the time in 1941, I could understand the switch many Native American could have made, seeing the Nazi's ravaging Europe, the Japanese doing the same in Asia, and the Italians in the Balkans and North Africa.

I'm also a bit of a realism guy. I'm always subconscious of if my timelines are accurate because I'm not a fan of ASB. I just like to give all scenarios, no matter how crazy they may sound, a chance. I never look at the front page and discredit the scenario. I like to give it my attention and find out myself. I have a list of 1257 scenario ideas, because I've been interested in Alternate history since 2016, but only got this account 18 days ago. I'm just sick of the same old American civil war, Napoleonic wars, and World war 2 timelines done to death, like Sealion, or Operation Downfall. My goal of my scenarios is to do scenarios not seen on the site.
 
There weren't even 350,000 American Indians according to the US Census in 1940 (there were only approximately 334,000). Maybe if you counted mixed-race individuals (who would have had a lot of social pressure to call themselves white) you might find 750,000 Indians.

And look how the Pacific Movement of the Eastern World, a blatantly pro-Imperial Japan African American group, was treated. The feds would break up any movement before it got started, and probably easily be able to secure the loyalty of corrupt tribal authorities and other figures to further break up any radical movement. At worst, you actually get some scattered uprisings (no more than a couple thousand total over a huge amount of land area), but American Indians are very scattered and well away from centers of population. And unfortunately for them, this isn't the 1800s anymore. With air support (which they'll entirely lack), the Army can easily subdue any of the uprisings and beat them into submission with superior weaponry. Look at the 1920 Somaliland campaign which showed how effective an air force can be against insurgencies. And the Dervish State had been getting active aid from the Ottomans and Germans (as almost every modern guerilla campaign shows, you absolutely need foreign aid). Getting German or Japanese aid to American Indians would be almost impossible.

It would probably be very easy to create interment camps for American Indians once the uprisings start to further discourage revolts. And considering how scattered and remote many reservations are, you could essentially blockade and occupy them with few soldiers. As you might expect, this would add another dark chapter to US - American Indian relations and probably would result in tens of thousands of innocent American Indians being killed/dying in the camps thanks to the actions of the rebels.

The upsides of this for the Axis is that for very little effort, if everything goes right, they can tie down tens of thousands of American soldiers and aircraft in subduing the rebels and occupying the camps, cause a lot of money to be needlessly spent, and most importantly, help cause paranoia in the United States. But it's all just a drop in the bucket compared to the massive warmaking potential of the US in both population and production capacity. And this is the era where American Indians are just part of the history books and Westerns to most Americans. What goes on in South Dakota or Arizona won't really affect the average American in the Midwest or the Northeast or the South where the majority of Americans lived.

Canada with its larger native population might be an equally interesting choice, especially if the revolt happened before the US joined in, but in Canada I suspect the government could subdue it equally as well and it will tip off the Americans to moniter their own Indian population more closely.
 
In Canada(you know, that social-democratic paradise of Michael Moore's wet dreams), indiginous people were, at various times, forcibly resettled, herded into residential schools where they were beaten for speaking their own language, pummelled with hammers and raped, and in at least one memorable encounter, mowed down with Gattling guns when they rose up against the government of the day. And their living-conditions today are borderline third-world in some places.

I'm REALLY having a tough time imagining that the Nazis would have been so much more humanitarian than the Canadians, once they actually got to North America and saw that the natives weren't quite the noble-savages of Karl May's fiction. Even in the 1940s, First Nations people were living in pretty impoverished and deracinated conditions, and I think the Nazis are likely to just say: "Hmm, these people sure seem a lot like gypsies", and follow the inexorable logic from there.

Best case scenario: The Nazis force the natives into bantustan like enclaves, which the official propoganda extol as independent "nations", heroically liberated from the evil British North Americans and Yanks. Life in these enclaves might be not much worse than life in reserves today, with the difference that anyone wandering off is likely to get shot.
 
In Canada(you know, that social-democratic paradise of Michael Moore's wet dreams), indiginous people were, at various times, forcibly resettled, herded into residential schools where they were beaten for speaking their own language, pummelled with hammers and raped, and in at least one memorable encounter, mowed down with Gattling guns when they rose up against the government of the day. And their living-conditions today are borderline third-world in some places.

I'm REALLY having a tough time imagining that the Nazis would have been so much more humanitarian than the Canadians, once they actually got to North America and saw that the natives weren't quite the noble-savages of Karl May's fiction. Even in the 1940s, First Nations people were living in pretty impoverished and deracinated conditions, and I think the Nazis are likely to just say: "Hmm, these people sure seem a lot like gypsies", and follow the inexorable logic from there.

Best case scenario: The Nazis force the natives into bantustan like enclaves, which the official propoganda extol as independent "nations", heroically liberated from the evil British North Americans and Yanks. Life in these enclaves might be not much worse than life in reserves today, with the difference that anyone wandering off is likely to get shot.

Canada actually gives a pretty good example. You could have indigenous groups there also rise up in revolution against the government, along with American natives.

And I would say the Nazi's probably would have been kind to the Natives. (We are assuming the Axis somehow win the war, and this timeline has the Natives join the side.) You and I both know that Native Americans are not savages, but normal people with a different culture. The U.S propagated savagery, but in Germany, it had been established that they were not savages, but noble people. Remember, Hitler changed his opinion on matters when he finds something new. His stance on actual Indians in India went from shooting Gandhi, and the sterilization of all Indians, to respecting Indian culture, and even saying in talks with Martin Borman "I feel much more sympathetically inclined to the lowliest Hindu, than to any of those arrogant islanders (Britan)" Hitlers views of Native Americans were positive from when he was a child, why would they be any different, especially now that they had foughten for the Reich? If he wins the war, why not go to the Sioux, or Tenochtitlan, or Machu Pichu, or even Cuzco? If he liked their cultures from the start, now that he owns the world, why not go to these places?

Why would Hitler need to force the natives into bantustan enclaves? Since when the hell would the Natives want to destroy the Reich? They wanted what they always wanted. Rights, land, and equal status.
 
There weren't even 350,000 American Indians according to the US Census in 1940 (there were only approximately 334,000). Maybe if you counted mixed-race individuals (who would have had a lot of social pressure to call themselves white) you might find 750,000 Indians.

And look how the Pacific Movement of the Eastern World, a blatantly pro-Imperial Japan African American group, was treated. The feds would break up any movement before it got started, and probably easily be able to secure the loyalty of corrupt tribal authorities and other figures to further break up any radical movement. At worst, you actually get some scattered uprisings (no more than a couple thousand total over a huge amount of land area), but American Indians are very scattered and well away from centers of population. And unfortunately for them, this isn't the 1800s anymore. With air support (which they'll entirely lack), the Army can easily subdue any of the uprisings and beat them into submission with superior weaponry. Look at the 1920 Somaliland campaign which showed how effective an air force can be against insurgencies. And the Dervish State had been getting active aid from the Ottomans and Germans (as almost every modern guerilla campaign shows, you absolutely need foreign aid). Getting German or Japanese aid to American Indians would be almost impossible.

It would probably be very easy to create interment camps for American Indians once the uprisings start to further discourage revolts. And considering how scattered and remote many reservations are, you could essentially blockade and occupy them with few soldiers. As you might expect, this would add another dark chapter to US - American Indian relations and probably would result in tens of thousands of innocent American Indians being killed/dying in the camps thanks to the actions of the rebels.

The upsides of this for the Axis is that for very little effort, if everything goes right, they can tie down tens of thousands of American soldiers and aircraft in subduing the rebels and occupying the camps, cause a lot of money to be needlessly spent, and most importantly, help cause paranoia in the United States. But it's all just a drop in the bucket compared to the massive warmaking potential of the US in both population and production capacity. And this is the era where American Indians are just part of the history books and Westerns to most Americans. What goes on in South Dakota or Arizona won't really affect the average American in the Midwest or the Northeast or the South where the majority of Americans lived.

Canada with its larger native population might be an equally interesting choice, especially if the revolt happened before the US joined in, but in Canada I suspect the government could subdue it equally as well and it will tip off the Americans to moniter their own Indian population more closely.

If the Germans were able to sneak in, and smuggle weapons to them, (as they sent spies to negotiate in our timeline) America would probably take a Black Pro-Japan movement seriously, because there is a huge number of black people, but there's not many Native Americans, so they might not take a Native American revolution seriously.

Yes, Natives are scattered, and away from population centres, but that'd actually help them. The U.S would have to dispatch troops over multiple areas, spreading up the American army across the country. The Native Americans would be ready. The Germans would send them modernized weaponry, maybe like a few tanks, and a few aircraft, but if the Native Americans build trenches everywhere, air strikes would do a lot less damage to them. Paratroopers would be a problem, but getting through the lines of native Americans spread so far away is gonna still be a gruelling siege of each stronghold. The Germans and Japanese are already pretty smart war tacticians, and if they have tons of supplies early on, the Natives would be prepared for guerrilla warfare even after the Americans take the stronghold. And if they massacre the natives like they did hundreds of years ago, it'd be a propaganda victory for the Nazi's, and Japanese. They could tie down a lot of Americans not only using Trench warfare, using Guerilla warfare, and be getting modern weapons from the Japanese, and Germans, but they could go Lawrence of Arabia on the Americans. Since they are so far from population centres, and in remote areas, not only does it give them extra preparation time, but the Natives can destroy railways, set up scorched earth policy, and attack new supply lines, and Americans going in.

Remember, with hundreds of American reservations all over the country, the war in the Pacific, and the war in Europe, how many aircraft, and troops would be reserved to attack each and every Native American reservation?
 
If the Germans were able to sneak in, and smuggle weapons to them, (as they sent spies to negotiate in our timeline) America would probably take a Black Pro-Japan movement seriously, because there is a huge number of black people, but there's not many Native Americans, so they might not take a Native American revolution seriously.

No, they definitely would. If you have some insanely successful native propagandist spewing pro-Axis rhetoric (probably with a healthy amount of Japan being the savior of the non-white races from colonialism as Imperial Japan portrayed themselves), then the government is going to keep a closer eye on things. Any sizable amount of weapons being moved into the middle of nowhere is going to attract attention at some point. There's just too many people who'd have to drop the ball on things to make me believe you could get that many weapons and supplies out to the reservations.

Yes, Natives are scattered, and away from population centres, but that'd actually help them. The U.S would have to dispatch troops over multiple areas, spreading up the American army across the country. The Native Americans would be ready.

Not really, that's what each state's National Guard is for, and also the State Guard too in many states. The US has plenty to spare for suppressing uprisings like this. And then ask yourself how can the American Indians even coordinate this? If one reservation jumps the gun on things, then the revolt is doomed to fail. The government can just cut all communications and use press censorship to impose a media blackout on what's going on in South Dakota or wherever. No one, least of all other reservations, will know what's going on until things are already over. Meanwhile, the US military has a much better communication system and can coordinate between units much much more effectively.

The Germans would send them modernized weaponry, maybe like a few tanks, and a few aircraft, but if the Native Americans build trenches everywhere, air strikes would do a lot less damage to them. Paratroopers would be a problem, but getting through the lines of native Americans spread so far away is gonna still be a gruelling siege of each stronghold.

That's just ASB. Anything more than a few light aircraft (stolen from civilian owners?) for observation/scouting just isn't happening. Tanks? No one's going to smuggle a tank across the ocean, into some port, and then hundreds/thousands of miles inland into the middle of nowhere without someone noticing.

And how are you going to build a good trench network with barely any equipment or supplies? It's so easy to cut off supplies to those remote reservations that the Feds could just starve them out, which is probably the best tactic, but I'm sure an assault by tanks and aircraft would probably end things soon. Any American Indian force is going to be armed with whatever guns they can find (probably just small arms) or smuggle in (not many on that front I bet), not to mention they'll have practically no training (outside of whatever older war veterans/former soldiers are willing to betray their country). Once the bombs and shells are falling and the tanks are coming right at you, it would probably end in a quick rout.

The Germans and Japanese are already pretty smart war tacticians, and if they have tons of supplies early on, the Natives would be prepared for guerrilla warfare even after the Americans take the stronghold. And if they massacre the natives like they did hundreds of years ago, it'd be a propaganda victory for the Nazi's, and Japanese. They could tie down a lot of Americans not only using Trench warfare, using Guerilla warfare, and be getting modern weapons from the Japanese, and Germans, but they could go Lawrence of Arabia on the Americans. Since they are so far from population centres, and in remote areas, not only does it give them extra preparation time, but the Natives can destroy railways, set up scorched earth policy, and attack new supply lines, and Americans going in.

Once the Americans take the strongholds, their supplies are gone. Guerilla warfare only works if you have a powerful foreign backer who can continue to supply you with weapons. Germany and Japan probably won't be able to give you a thing once the thing's started. You could maybe free POWs from camps, if the camps in the area (like that one camp in Arizona a bunch of Germans escaped from in WWII) wouldn't be on full alert and probably turned into frontline bases. And the American West is a pretty wide open place in many parts. It wouldn't be hard to locate camps using air recon and send in the Army. They'd also have no support from the locals (unlike many successful examples of guerilla warfare), many of whom were already extremely racist toward the Indians and would gladly alert the police and Army if they didn't just shoot them themselves. This is the American West after all where I'm just guessing most people in 1940 owned at least one gun, and the county and state police agencies would of course have plenty of weapons.

And how would anyone know American Indians are being massacred? No American or Allied press will report that story (except in highly distorted and garbled form), only rumours will reach the public. I would expect the entire affair to remain as nothing but rumours until it ends in American victory. And even then, no one will know massacres of American Indians occurred until after the war--that will only be rumours. If it appears in Axis propaganda, then it's just that--Axis propaganda.

Remember, with hundreds of American reservations all over the country, the war in the Pacific, and the war in Europe, how many aircraft, and troops would be reserved to attack each and every Native American reservation?

Most reservations were small and consisted of only a few thousand people at most, which would include older men, women, and children who wouldn't be taking an active role. They would serve as fine hostages, and the remote locations of the reservations make them easy to convert into actual internment camps.

I wouldn't expect the internal uprising to distract much from the actual fighting overseas. The United States just has that much manpower and industrial capacity to devote to the conflict. And again, this is assuming that the Indians aren't torn with massive amounts of infighting, which they would be since there'd be a lot of people using reason and asking why they should revolt against the same government that decisively defeated them and reduced them to such a pitiful state on behalf of some foreign powers a world away. After all, plenty of American Indians loyally served in WWII. And the government could very easily make offers to certain individuals or tribes to cause defections and dissent in the ranks of the rebels.
 
No, they definitely would. If you have some insanely successful native propagandist spewing pro-Axis rhetoric (probably with a healthy amount of Japan being the savior of the non-white races from colonialism as Imperial Japan portrayed themselves), then the government is going to keep a closer eye on things. Any sizable amount of weapons being moved into the middle of nowhere is going to attract attention at some point. There's just too many people who'd have to drop the ball on things to make me believe you could get that many weapons and supplies out to the reservations.



Not really, that's what each state's National Guard is for, and also the State Guard too in many states. The US has plenty to spare for suppressing uprisings like this. And then ask yourself how can the American Indians even coordinate this? If one reservation jumps the gun on things, then the revolt is doomed to fail. The government can just cut all communications and use press censorship to impose a media blackout on what's going on in South Dakota or wherever. No one, least of all other reservations, will know what's going on until things are already over. Meanwhile, the US military has a much better communication system and can coordinate between units much much more effectively.



That's just ASB. Anything more than a few light aircraft (stolen from civilian owners?) for observation/scouting just isn't happening. Tanks? No one's going to smuggle a tank across the ocean, into some port, and then hundreds/thousands of miles inland into the middle of nowhere without someone noticing.

And how are you going to build a good trench network with barely any equipment or supplies? It's so easy to cut off supplies to those remote reservations that the Feds could just starve them out, which is probably the best tactic, but I'm sure an assault by tanks and aircraft would probably end things soon. Any American Indian force is going to be armed with whatever guns they can find (probably just small arms) or smuggle in (not many on that front I bet), not to mention they'll have practically no training (outside of whatever older war veterans/former soldiers are willing to betray their country). Once the bombs and shells are falling and the tanks are coming right at you, it would probably end in a quick rout.



Once the Americans take the strongholds, their supplies are gone. Guerilla warfare only works if you have a powerful foreign backer who can continue to supply you with weapons. Germany and Japan probably won't be able to give you a thing once the thing's started. You could maybe free POWs from camps, if the camps in the area (like that one camp in Arizona a bunch of Germans escaped from in WWII) wouldn't be on full alert and probably turned into frontline bases. And the American West is a pretty wide open place in many parts. It wouldn't be hard to locate camps using air recon and send in the Army. They'd also have no support from the locals (unlike many successful examples of guerilla warfare), many of whom were already extremely racist toward the Indians and would gladly alert the police and Army if they didn't just shoot them themselves. This is the American West after all where I'm just guessing most people in 1940 owned at least one gun, and the county and state police agencies would of course have plenty of weapons.

And how would anyone know American Indians are being massacred? No American or Allied press will report that story (except in highly distorted and garbled form), only rumours will reach the public. I would expect the entire affair to remain as nothing but rumours until it ends in American victory. And even then, no one will know massacres of American Indians occurred until after the war--that will only be rumours. If it appears in Axis propaganda, then it's just that--Axis propaganda.



Most reservations were small and consisted of only a few thousand people at most, which would include older men, women, and children who wouldn't be taking an active role. They would serve as fine hostages, and the remote locations of the reservations make them easy to convert into actual internment camps.

I wouldn't expect the internal uprising to distract much from the actual fighting overseas. The United States just has that much manpower and industrial capacity to devote to the conflict. And again, this is assuming that the Indians aren't torn with massive amounts of infighting, which they would be since there'd be a lot of people using reason and asking why they should revolt against the same government that decisively defeated them and reduced them to such a pitiful state on behalf of some foreign powers a world away. After all, plenty of American Indians loyally served in WWII. And the government could very easily make offers to certain individuals or tribes to cause defections and dissent in the ranks of the rebels.

It could be gradual, maybe starting once Hitler gets in office, or a bit after that. Even if the Germans send money to the Natives to gradually buy arms for a potential war against America, it could work. Not many Americans wanted war in Europe, so having the Native Americans instead have Pro-German propaganda, then it could work, as America didn't really care, and a lot of Americans were ethnically German.

Ohh I forgot about the state guard. Sorry about that. The Germans could probably contact the most trustworthy, largest, and most powerful Native American reservations for help. There are a lot of Native American reservations to call upon, and it's not like the Natives would rat out the operation to the U.S so easily. Like the U.S is going to reward them for betraying the other tribes. The Natives could either join or stay out of it. But that doesn't mean anyone would call the United States for no benefit of themselves.

yeah, your right, I got carried away with the whole Tank idea. That doesn't make much sense. Some light planes could be bought fro the U.S before the rebellion starts from German money, and Money the reservations already predetermined have.

The supplies could be bought from Money the Germans donate. If they give them the arms, tools, and infrastructure from Nazi loans, then it is possible. They could also stockpile food. They have a lot of time to prepare for a secret alliance with the Germans. If the situation they could use small arms, but when the supplies from the Germans came from years, or months ago, they'd have the equipment they'd need. You could also count in other groups, and ethnicities to join the fight with the Native Americans. Blacks, Italian-Americans (If Mussolini calls on Italians to join the Native American cause) and other oppressed minorities across America could rise up, and join the Natives. Sure it won't be hundreds of thousands, but some minorities might join the fight. Training is an issue, but they probably could have found a few scraps of good military generals to join the cause. Especially since the Natives lifestyle isn't very industrialized, and live off a more rural lifestyle that would come in handy. Using axes, Bows, or throwing knives. If the Natives find anything, they will find a way to turn it into a weapon. The Natives who join this war will have the psychological advantage. They know they will die, or get extremely injured in this war. The Americans will probably underestimate the NAtives ability. They probably wouldn't send many troops to fight the tribes, considering the bigger war on stage, and still that stereotype of either savage, or inferior, and unintelligent races. Not many people live in the Great Plains, and yes while geography isn't really on the Natives side, they are crafted, and while I'm not really a war expert, they may find a way to get a good base. A lot of Native American Teepees are pretty portable and could adapt to a change in direction. Also, natives have a lot of animals, like horses, and could use them as an advantage to escape an American sneak attack or to harass supply lines. I also assume they have a lot of cars they purchased from German loans.

If Rumors reach the public, you know how rumors spread, and eventually, someone is gonna check and see. If someone, anyone goes to one of the Reservations, and suddenly sees no Natives there, most Americans would probably get a bit more suspicious.
 
It could be gradual, maybe starting once Hitler gets in office, or a bit after that. Even if the Germans send money to the Natives to gradually buy arms for a potential war against America, it could work. Not many Americans wanted war in Europe, so having the Native Americans instead have Pro-German propaganda, then it could work, as America didn't really care, and a lot of Americans were ethnically German.

Isn't the federal government and associated banks going to notice all these shipments of cash from Germany? And Americans not wanting war in Europe doesn't mean that giving money to pro-Nazi, anti-semitic, and anti-government
American Indian groups is going to go over well. And obviously a foreign government engaged in highly aggressive foreign policy giving money to groups like that is a blatantly subversive act which will get noticed.

Ohh I forgot about the state guard. Sorry about that. The Germans could probably contact the most trustworthy, largest, and most powerful Native American reservations for help. There are a lot of Native American reservations to call upon, and it's not like the Natives would rat out the operation to the U.S so easily. Like the U.S is going to reward them for betraying the other tribes. The Natives could either join or stay out of it. But that doesn't mean anyone would call the United States for no benefit of themselves.

Except they would, and that's how the United States fought the Indian Wars in the first place by exploiting divisions and rivalries between various groups. Someone, somewhere, is going to think "hey, maybe this is kind of a bad idea" and remember what happened to the people who joined the Ghost Dance movement. And realise that they are so utterly dependent on the federal government in so many ways that "biting the hand that feeds them", even if it is the hand which has been abusing them for generations, is bound to result in bad things.

yeah, your right, I got carried away with the whole Tank idea. That doesn't make much sense. Some light planes could be bought fro the U.S before the rebellion starts from German money, and Money the reservations already predetermined have.

Who's going to fly those planes? Are they paying for the training of all these American Indian aviators?

The supplies could be bought from Money the Germans donate. If they give them the arms, tools, and infrastructure from Nazi loans, then it is possible. They could also stockpile food. They have a lot of time to prepare for a secret alliance with the Germans. If the situation they could use small arms, but when the supplies from the Germans came from years, or months ago, they'd have the equipment they'd need. You could also count in other groups, and ethnicities to join the fight with the Native Americans. Blacks, Italian-Americans (If Mussolini calls on Italians to join the Native American cause) and other oppressed minorities across America could rise up, and join the Natives. Sure it won't be hundreds of thousands, but some minorities might join the fight.

The Americans aren't going to let Indians build giant fortresses or trenches on their land. That's so blatantly obvious that something weird is going on. Indians stockpiling weapons is pretty suspicious too, the Indian Wars are only two generations removed. There's only so many tractors, construction equipment, etc. you can send to the Indian reservations under some front of "we're here to help improve conditions" before people realise that none of that is going into farming or construction.

I don't know how well an African American uprising would work (better than an Indian uprising but still not very good), considering the South had been preparing against the possibility of one since the 1600s. Once again, probably not many people would join (since one happening would mean hundreds of people are going to get shot/lynched/etc including their families) and they have very few weapons. Mussolini didn't attract many Italian American supporters, and in general Italian Americans served patriotically in the war--remember the Mafia policing the New York waterfront against Axis agents? Not to mention, how are groups of blacks and Italians going to get all the way to the West in preparation for some uprising? Especially in an era where any sizable amount of black people moving west would end up in them being stopped somewhere in Arkansas and imprisoned for "vagrancy" or some other crime.

Training is an issue, but they probably could have found a few scraps of good military generals to join the cause. Especially since the Natives lifestyle isn't very industrialized, and live off a more rural lifestyle that would come in handy. Using axes, Bows, or throwing knives. If the Natives find anything, they will find a way to turn it into a weapon.

Not really, considering that only the oldest men would even remember when they fought the Americans last time. And come on, axes, bows, really? That's not an advantage, since the American infantryman is equipped with similar tools. Further, since you're fighting the National/State Guards, many of those soldiers also come from a rural background too. How many American Indians even knew how to reliably construct a bow and arrow anyway in 1940? Considering the average American Indian tended to be poor and destitute and their communities suffered from

The Natives who join this war will have the psychological advantage. They know they will die, or get extremely injured in this war. The Americans will probably underestimate the NAtives ability. They probably wouldn't send many troops to fight the tribes, considering the bigger war on stage, and still that stereotype of either savage, or inferior, and unintelligent races. Not many people live in the Great Plains, and yes while geography isn't really on the Natives side, they are crafted, and while I'm not really a war expert, they may find a way to get a good base. A lot of Native American Teepees are pretty portable and could adapt to a change in direction. Also, natives have a lot of animals, like horses, and could use them as an advantage to escape an American sneak attack or to harass supply lines. I also assume they have a lot of cars they purchased from German loans

Knowing you'll die or be injured, well, every soldier expects that. What happens when you actually come face to face with that, when the bombs are falling and the bullets flying right at you, is far more important. An untrained band of rebels motivated by nothing but hatred for the government after having been brainwashed by propaganda is definitely not a group that tends to fare well in these situations.

No, they can't get a good base, because the military and local police won't let them have one. When they find one, they will be smoked out of it by air raids. And no, they don't have a lot of horses, since this isn't the 1800s anymore. If they do, the United States has far better ones and far more horses, and they also have tanks. Any cars/trucks the Indian rebels get are going to have limited offroad capacity and probably run out of gas before long.

Although they could actually have armoured weapons--the Killdozer is a pretty famous use of an improvised armoured vehicle to commit a rampage, but it was made by a very skilled mechanic (where are the Indians going to get people this good?), is slow, and has numerous other flaws that would render it pretty useless in actual combat. Now imagine how a 1930s equivalent of that would work--it would be blatantly inferior to any tank the US had in its arsenal in the 30s. And if you want a guerilla war, you don't want slow, obvious targets like this.
 
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