The Last Duke of the West

Thanks for the support and encouragement, guys! Bit embarrassing really, I'd put the files on a memory stick and lost track of it. A friend turned it up the other day, I'd given it to him with some election materials on it.

WRT to Paris - it's certainly vulnerable, but there are reasons of emotion and pride to consider too in such matters; and the French will be keen to get Rheims back as well.

A bit of tidying to do on the next chapter, which I shall post Saturday or Sunday.
 
actaeon

Having carried out my threat and re-read the thread from the start I have a clearer idea of what's been happening now. Some questions and comments.

a) Are the transfers, of Normandy to England and Champlage to Burgundy complete or as fiefs? I.e. do those territories and possibly other parts of Burgundy still technically have the French king as their overlord.

b) The comment about the infant Marie being betrothed to Charles of France clashes with an earlier post about her entering a religious order and rising fairly rapidly before dying young. Is that a case of the story changing or an hint that the marriage won't come off?

c) The latest children Philip and Richard, seems to be new to the earlier list, which I think ended with Marie?

d) Having re-read the thread I get the significant of Louis's body bearing the mark of many axes.;)

Looking forward to seeing more.

Thanks

Steve


Well, I had planned on posting more chapters to this during the election campaign as a way of keeping myself sane - but then everything hit the fan and I was just too busy to post at all. Then, after mopping up the last emails, letters and paperwork from the election, I couldn't locate my files for TLDotW.

But I knew they were around somewhere and now I've found them, so here, without further ado, is the next chapter:


Chapter Two






1477:
In January, Louis XI leads his hastily assembled army to Troyes to attempt to raise the siege. It is the depths of a bitter winter, and many of Louis's soldiers fall by the wayside before the French arrive at the city, which they find completely encircled by the Burgundians.
The citizens of Troyes, knowing the fate of Liege eight years before, watch in despair as the tired and hungry French are torn apart by Charles' mercenaries and mounted troops. Louis tries to flee, but is hunted down and killed. His body is found in the ice of the frozen river Seine the following day, bearing the marks of many axe wounds. Folklore states that Charles struck the fatal blow, crying 'Montereau'.
Troyes surrenders, and suffers severe reprisals against the civic leaders of the rebellion, although Charles is restrained from punishing the general populace.

The death of Louis elevates his son to the throne, succeeding as Charles VIII. Charles is only 6, and with so many of the French nobility, there is confusion over who is capable of acting as regent. Charles of Burgundy releases the captive Duke of Bourbon, and escorts him to Paris to claim the regency. Most lords gratefully accede to this, seeing the alternatives. Once Bourbon is securely entrenched as regent, he makes peace with Burgundy and England on terms that Champagne is ceded to Burgundy, Normandy is returned to England, and a betrothal is agreed between Charles VIII of France, and the Duke of Burgundy's infant daughter Marie.

Charles the Bold – as he is becoming known [2] – returns to Bruges in February to a joyous reception from the citizens. In November, the Duchess gives birth to another daughter, Katherine.

1478:
Charles works hard at integrating Champagne into his domains, issuing decrees to systematise taxes and duties, setting in motion a programme of improvements to highways and city defences, and meeting nobles and merchants to determine Champenois representations in the Estates General.
Charles and Elizabeth are also delighted when she gives birth to another son, baptised Philippe. Charles courts French outrage by having all his children rebaptised in the cathedral at Reims, the traditional coronation site for kings of France: at this time, he has refused to allow Charles VIII to be crowned here.

1480:
A seventh son, Richard is born to the Duke of Burgundy; he is the last of Charles' and Elizabeth's children.

4728009705_8eda99d191_o.jpg


Notes

[1] Jane Tweedy, who also wrote as Winnie Sett, was a prolific writer of historical romances. Her fictional retelling of the life of Charles the Bold of Burgundy, Fortune Favours the Bold, won the Georgette Heyer Historical Novel Award for 1982
[2] TTL Charles is known as Charles le Hardi, which can be translated as 'the Bold', rather than the OTL le Téméraire, which is often also translated as 'the Bold', although more accurately it might be rendered 'Foolhardy'.
 
actaeon

Having carried out my threat and re-read the thread from the start I have a clearer idea of what's been happening now. Some questions and comments.

a) Are the transfers, of Normandy to England and Champlage to Burgundy complete or as fiefs? I.e. do those territories and possibly other parts of Burgundy still technically have the French king as their overlord.

b) The comment about the infant Marie being betrothed to Charles of France clashes with an earlier post about her entering a religious order and rising fairly rapidly before dying young. Is that a case of the story changing or an hint that the marriage won't come off?

c) The latest children Philip and Richard, seems to be new to the earlier list, which I think ended with Marie?

d) Having re-read the thread I get the significant of Louis's body bearing the mark of many axes.;)

Looking forward to seeing more.

Thanks

Steve

A) technically both Normandy and Champagne are still held as fiefs of the French king. Given how much tension this situation for normandy caused between England and France OTL, you can imagine how this multiplies it!

b) Yes, the earlier note was a look forward I should in retrospect have removed; I think you won't b surprised that the betrothal doesn't go any further - as so often in the period

c) Yes, Philippe and Richard are new; I've been extending the tree with each new addition so as not to give too much away; I had intended to link to the latest version of the family tree, but somehow omitted it - here it is:

4728009533_b4145e1513_b.jpg
 
11 Children with the last at the age of 36. Considering this is the age before vitamin and other supplements Phillipe and Richard are going to be very unhealthy in later life and Elizabeth does not have long to go.
 
Good TL, enjoyed the read.

11 Children with the last at the age of 36. Considering this is the age before vitamin and other supplements Phillipe and Richard are going to be very unhealthy in later life and Elizabeth does not have long to go.
Not necessarily. Best counterexample: Eleanor of Aquitaine
10 children, last at the age of 45 (John Lackland) died at age of 82, 300 years earlyer.
 
Great TL.

Will Charles still make a go for Lorraine as he did OTL?

At least the succession is safe (for another generation), so no Habsburg to ruin an independent Burgundy.
 
11 Children with the last at the age of 36. Considering this is the age before vitamin and other supplements Phillipe and Richard are going to be very unhealthy in later life and Elizabeth does not have long to go.

The children are directly based on the OTL 11 children that Elizabeth of York had. Whether or not they'll be hale and hearty remains to be seen...
 
Chapter Three

brugge.jpg

The Kruispoort, Brugge

On Saturday the third day of October the Kinge was conveyed through Brugge unto the church of Donatian. The high streets where through the Kinge should pass were all rayled on each side within which rayles stood the crafts along in their order and the constables of the city apparelled in velvet and silkes with great staves in their handes to cause the people to give roome and keep good order. When the streets were somewhat ordered the maior in a gown of crimson velvet and a rich collar of esses with two footmen clothed in white and red damaske rode to the Kruispoort to give his attendance on the Kinge.

Before the Kinge with his train should come Langestraat and Hoogstraat were hanged with fine scarlet crimson and with rich arras and the most part of the Burg was hanged with cloth of tissue gold velvet and many rich hangings whiche did make a goodly shew and all the windows were replenished with ladies and gentlemen to beholde the King and Queene as they should pass.

The first of the company that set forward were Gentlemen Esquires Knights two and two to the number of one hundrede and fortie four; after them the Judges; then the Abbots Bishops and numbrous Prelates and Clerics; after them twentie four barons, counts and earls of Burgundy and England; then the ambassadors from England, France and the Emperor Frederick cloathed in coats of velvet and sarsonet.

Then came the Kinge clad in velvet and ermine, riding a white horse trapped down with crimson velvet turned up with cloth of gold, and the Queene in a litter of cloth of gold led by two palfries clad in white damaske down to the ground led by her footmen; she had on a kirtle of green cloth of tissue and a mantle of the same furred with ermine her hair hanging downe but on her head she had a coif with a circlet about it full of rich stones. And about them before and behind marched the Knights of the Order of the Golden Fleece in green gowns with hoods pursed with miniver like doctors.

After them came three chariots covered with red cloth of gold in the first chariot were two princes which were the young lords Jean and Joseph, in the second chariot also were Charles and the princess Elizabeth, and in the third were the other young princes and princesses with ladies of the court after whom followed thirty gentlewomen all in velvet and silke in the livery of the cities of Dijon and Brugge and Brussel.

In like order they rode forth till they came to Stoelstraat where was made a pageant all of children apparelled like merchants and from thence they proceeded towards Ridderstraat corner where was a costly and marvellous cunning pageant therein was the Mount Parnassus with the fountain of Helicon which was of white marble and four streames without pipes did rise an ell high and meet together in a little cup above the fountain which fountain ran abundantly with rackt Reynish wyne till night. On the fountaine sate Apollo and at his feete Calliope and on every side of the mountaine sate four muses playing on several sweete instruments and at their feete epigrams and poesies were written in golden letters in the which every muse according to her property praysed the Kinge and his wisdome.

That done he passed by the great conduit in Molenmeer which was newly painted with armes and devices of the realm out of which conduit by a goodly fountaine set at the end ranne continually wyne both white and claret all that afternoone and which was hanged about with such stuff as was richly painted with images of Kinges and Dukes and banners of armes the which were those over who the Kinge had won many victories in battle.

Then he went forward by Ridderstraat till he came where the aldermen came to him with low reverence making a proper and brief proposition and gave to him in the name of the cittie a ball of golde divided in three signifying wisdome riches and felicitie.

As he entered into the Burg there was a pretty pageant in which sate three ladies richly cloathed and in a circle on their head was written Rex Carolus prospere et procede and each lady had a tablet of golde with letters of azure written Confido in Domino.

From thence he passed to the east end of Donatian's church the which all entered in and there the Kinge was led up to the high dais under the cloth of estate on whose left hand sate the Bishop and on whose right hand sate the Emperour. And there with great reverence did all watch while as the Emperour did lift the crown so that all the lords and clergy might see it and then did he place the crown on the head of Charles while all with grate solemnity and awe did pray to the Lord to defend protect and succour our Kinge. And the Bishop did anoint the King and bless him. And thus was Charles made King of Burgundy and thence with much cheering and loud reports of cannon did he and the Quene and all their family withdraw themselves to the Prinsenholf where they rested that night.

Extract from A Generale Chronicle of Burgundy by Jan de Stouw. [1]

1482:
Liège rebels yet again, and appeals to the Holy Roman Emperor Frederick III for aid. Determined to check Burgundy's growing power, he sends his son Maximilian at the head of an army to support Liège.

The two armies – Imperial and Burgundian – reach Liège almost simultaneously. There is no time for Charles to set up a siege of the city, nor for Maximilian to enter the city and combine his army with the defending forces. Thw two armies take up position outside the city, and the citizens are spectators to an epic battle.

Charles' reforms and reorganisations have been taking effect, and his troops are confident of victory under a Duke who has led them to success after success. The Imperial army has also fought battles recently, but is weakened as Maximilian has had to garrison rebellious towns himself, along the Rhine. Despite this, the battle is a close-fought affair, only turned towards the end of the day when a charge by Charles' cavalry, combined with a volley from the Burgundian artillery, causes some of the horses of Maximilian's escort to take fright and flee.

In the confusion, Charles leads his troops into the centre of the Imperial line and the Imperial troops are shattered and defeated. Charles defeats Maximilian and takes him prisoner. He then turns his attention to Liège, and leads Maximilian through the streets as it is once more sacked. Charles orders the inhabitants driven from the city and proclaims that it is to be repopulated with loyal citizens and servants from other parts of Burgundy.

He returns to Dijon with Maximilian and the other prisoners, who are treated with all the respect and courtesy due to their rank.

The Emperor Frederick sends envoys to ask to ransom Maximilian; initially Charles refuses. Eventually, following repeated requests, he responds that the Duke of Burgundy could never agree to ransom, but that the King of Burgundy could.

Frederick, with a great deal of anguish and foreboding at thus legitimising a rival of growing power, bows to the inevitable, and in September 1482, in Dijon, Charles is crowned King of Burgundy. He repeats his coronation in Bruges on October 3rd, with even greater expense and grandeur.

[1] Adapted from John Stow's account of the coronation of Anne Boleyn.
 
TTL Charles is crazy. :eek: And awesome. He's crazy awesome. Also, he's going to be at war with the Empire in 3...2...1...

Saya Aensland

Very true the 1st part.;) Also a great danger of the 2nd, especially if the emperor and French king decide on some terms to remove the common threat. That could be the great danger.

On the other hand, having been bested once and with other problems Maximillian could decide to try carrot rather than stick. However a partition attempt does seem likely at some point or another. Especially with the loss of its position in Gascony England would also be much less capable of helping Burgundy. Hence there could be a very nasty war that even with a prosperous and well organised state Charles would struggle to survive.

Steve
 
Chapter Four​

1483:
On 9th April, Edward IV of England dies. He is succeeded by his son Edward V, with Richard of Gloucester named as Protector. By June, Richard has forced Parliament to declare Edward, and his brother the Duke of York, illegitimate, and Richard takes the throne.


A tiny, almost (almost...) insignificant update now. I was going to do a narrative interpolation for this, but it would cover very similar ground to the next chapter, and besides, this is actually an OTL update, and is covered pretty well by just about every historian you can think of!

Instead, I thought that perhaps this might be a good opportunity to post some thoughts I had when developing this timeline: about why I wanted to do it; what I learned about the history; and what I conjecture about Burgundian motivations and hence the plausibility of the timeline.

My fascination with alt history is more often with medieval and early timelines, rather than recent ones (ACW, WW2, I'm looking at you); largely because there's more fluidity about events and their consequences, and because history then is much more 'personal', in that one person in power seems to have much more ptential to affect the world with their decisions. I imagine some social historians are fuming at that, but never mind.

I like Burgundy for the fact that it seems to have come so close to achieving permanent statehood, and fallen back for seemingly banal and avoidable reasons, because I so enjoyed reading Mary Gentle's Ash, although that of course isn't really alt hist, and finally because many yuears ago I played the Duke of Burgundy in Shakespeare's Henry V, who has a very powerful anti-war speech at the end of the play when he mediates the peace conference between the English and French.

When I started thinking about this timeline, I felt the key point was whether Charles had a male heir to succeed him after the Siege of Nancy, and I worked back from their looking for a valid way to give him such an heir; and I was also intrigued as to why Burgundy under Philippe broke off the alliance with england and returned to the French alliance: after all the England-Burgundy alliance had worked very successfully up till then (I hadn't realised quite how successfully until I read the history) and there seemed little to gain - but more of that later.

The death of the Duchess of Bedford, and the Duke's remarriage, was an astonishing find to me: almost all the historical accounts referred to this as a real cause of friction between Burgundy and England, and so it seemed quite an important event, and also true to my belief that in this period it was personal relationships that were important. And with the connection to the Treaty of Arras a few years later, it gave an obvious opening to rearrange Charles' marriage arrangements. Of course, Charles could have struggled to father an heir on any bride, but his family background seems to suggest otherwise, and anyway, this is counterfactual - no point in changing history and then sticking too close to the original.

But was that the only reason Burgundy switched sides? I tend to think not. One thing that began to become apparent, after considerable staring at maps, was that Philippe was desperate to unify his territories - administering his patchwork of fiefs must have been a nightmare - and there are really only two options available to him to link up the Duchy with his lands in the Low Countries: he either needs Champagne or Lorraine.

I have a feeling that at some stage, Philippe looked at his chances of wresting control of Champagne from France - Champagne, where Rheims has the cathedral wherein French kings are crowned, a fief regularly held by close relatives of the French King - and decided that it wasn't going to happen. So if you are then focused on Lorraine, you need to guard your back, and that means makign sure that you have good relations with France, and England becomes much less important. Of course, ironically, it was going for Lorraine that led to Charles' embroilment with lands in the HRE, and eventually his death, but that was a long way in the future at this point.

I think that my timeline is, therefore, inherently implausible - Philippe would have taken some persuading to go back on such a decision at Arras - but with enough of a grain of possibility that, had Anne survived, being the one person who might have persuaded Philippe, the rest after that is quite plausible. It's a bit like meeting Brazil in the quarter finals of the World Cup - before the match, the chances of winning the Cup are small, because that match is so difficult, but if you win that, suddenly you could be the favourites.

One other thing I've learned from doing this, which I shall apply to future timelines, is to write longer narrative or descriptive sections. I honestly thought I'd written some long passages, but they compress quite a lot on wide screen. 'More words, more words!' (next time)
 
After some searching on the board I found this TL, I must have missed it, when it was resumed...

Whether or no this TL continues, I always have enjoyed reading it. Although the way that Charles forces the emperor to crown him, most likely would have meant that his kingdom would have been surrounded by enemies; but then again Charles the Bold (Karel de Stoute (NL)) never had the political talent of Philip the Good (Filips de Goede (NL)).
 
Good work. Keep up the TL, please.

One question: shouldn't there be more butterflies in England, or am I missing something.

I also suspect that the English king would have gotten more of Normandy back sooner, based on some of Louis's disastrous defeats iTTL. Especially since it's 'his' anyway...
 
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