Alternatively you can have the caliphate fragment and dissolve. As that would be just as much of a boon for Romans as no 20 years anarchy.
The Justiniad --- A Heraclian Timeline
- Thread starter Henderson
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- byzantine eastern rome roman
I could, or they could win and undo pretty much all the Roman successes gained up until this point. We'll see when we get there.
True true, though that would destabilize the empire similarly to otl
Don’t do that haha! Would be nice to see some back and forth between them but I’d like to see Justinian 2.0 be successful!
Obviously it would be counterintuitive to the whole PoD if the Byzantines lost the war. But then again when has history ever been logical?
Just been reading this as I said I would in the other thread. Free time came up and I looked forward to doing so! Firstly I want to say @Henderson you've done a very good job portraying what is plausible for Justinian's character, especially pre-overthrow. The anger boiling under the surface, the desire and impetuousness to take bold steps, with a degree of rashness and the absolute belief in his convictions.
Sebastopolis is a good POD. Much can change from this point forward, just as there are plenty of challenges for the Empire to face, there are good opportunities too. Without Leontius being thrown into jail thus far that's another change to add to the mix and creates some interesting paths to go down. Basically winning that battle allows at least four PODs to happen, as you can count the Sclaveni staying on side and the capture of Muḥammad ibn Marwān in addition to winning and fate of Leontius, so that's well thought out as a point to start with as well.
I do like the historical notes you add to each part and they are informative. You've clearly done a decent amount of research and that's always welcome in a TL.
I noticed Justinian's brother Heraclius is about in this TL. That adds some further dimensions to follow. There's plenty here to hold readers' interest, and I have to say well done for choosing this Emperor as there are barely any TLs done about him at all on this website, or indeed anywhere else.
As I have long had an interest in this particular Emperor since before I started my own TL on him all those years ago, you have my thanks and good wishes for a good idea and I'm looking forward to future parts and seeing where this goes.
"Tu Vincas, Justinian!".
Sargon
Sebastopolis is a good POD. Much can change from this point forward, just as there are plenty of challenges for the Empire to face, there are good opportunities too. Without Leontius being thrown into jail thus far that's another change to add to the mix and creates some interesting paths to go down. Basically winning that battle allows at least four PODs to happen, as you can count the Sclaveni staying on side and the capture of Muḥammad ibn Marwān in addition to winning and fate of Leontius, so that's well thought out as a point to start with as well.
I do like the historical notes you add to each part and they are informative. You've clearly done a decent amount of research and that's always welcome in a TL.
I noticed Justinian's brother Heraclius is about in this TL. That adds some further dimensions to follow. There's plenty here to hold readers' interest, and I have to say well done for choosing this Emperor as there are barely any TLs done about him at all on this website, or indeed anywhere else.
As I have long had an interest in this particular Emperor since before I started my own TL on him all those years ago, you have my thanks and good wishes for a good idea and I'm looking forward to future parts and seeing where this goes.
"Tu Vincas, Justinian!".
Sargon
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I'm glad you like it! I did my best to try and build a complex character in Justinian, attempting to make him seem like a reasonable and competent Emperor while still keeping the rashness and anger ascribed to him in historical sources. It's been a bit hard trying to figure out exactly what steps he would take in the situations I've crafted.
I should say that my realization of how good a PoD Sebastopolis was came after I chose it. Initially I chose it since in Constance Head's book on Justinian II, she describes it as essentially the turning point of his reign, where his gains and victories dry up shortly thereafter. And the historical notes are just there to clear stuff for the reader, since I felt using ancient names for people (or transliterated names) might easily confuse the readers.
Since you mentioned Heraclius I'd like to take a second to clarify something about him, since I feel like I'll have a hard time getting his character across in a subtle manner. The man is entirely apathetic and unambitious. He simply doesn't care about the functions of state or being Emperor, he just wants to sit in the shadows and relax. This is both his saving grace and biggest weakness.
Honestly I'm just as glad as you are to see Justinian II get some recognition, despite how minor it is. Νικά!As I have long had an interest in this particular Emperor since before I started my own TL on him all those years ago, you have my thanks and good wishes for a good idea and I'm looking forward to future parts and seeing where this goes.
"Tu Vincas, Justinian!".
Sargon
Also I want to add how terrifying it was for me to refresh my browser and see 43 new notifications 🤣
Sorry for the almost 2 week hiatus I put this story on. It's been busy over Winter Break, so I've barely gotten the time to write. I'm going to try and post the next chapter some time before Christmas on January 7th.
Also since I've left you all hanging for such a long time, I'll give you guys a bit of a spoiler on the next chapter, it's gonna be from Leontios' POV, and will involve the mutilated Umayyad General from Chapter 3.
Also since I've left you all hanging for such a long time, I'll give you guys a bit of a spoiler on the next chapter, it's gonna be from Leontios' POV, and will involve the mutilated Umayyad General from Chapter 3.
Aye, you've done well in balancing out his characteristics. He could be quite a complex man, springing some surprises, especially from all the reading I've done about him. It would seem he has suffered rather a lot from those who followed him into power and the histories written by others to embellish their own reigns or those they preferred. This is not to say he did not had some big flaws and issues, which he certainly did, but it does seem he's not as dreadful as some chroniclers would have us believe.
Constance Head's book is an excellent resource and I remember her comments about Sebastopolis. I purchased that a very long time ago. It is but one of many, many books in my Romano-Byzanto-Ottoman collection to which of course I'm usually adding new ones whenever I get the chance, although I really, really could do with more bookshelves and cases!
It looks like Heraclius seems safe here. Strikes me as being more of a Constantine VIII type figure. Makes one wonder if he'll become a dab hand at concocting various sauces or something in his spare time.
Heh, well. you'll be getting more notifications I'm sure! I once went away for a couple of weeks after posting a number of parts to some stories and came back to over a hundred of them. Nearly fell off my chair! Still, it was nice. Comments and likes do help us to have further motivation after all.
Sargon
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So you’re orthodox! Neat! Marry Christmas then! No worries on the hiatus! Life comes first!
Sounds interesting!
Hiatus
I am genuinely sorry for leaving this timeline on a hiatus without any notice. I'm not going to even try to make any excuses, I lost the drive to keep carrying on this TL and I got myself interested into other projects. This timeline will be on hiatus, I have no idea how long, perhaps another month, maybe two. But I will return to this eventually and finish Justinian's story, this timeline is near and dear to my heart and I won't let it fizzle out in ignominy.
That's OK Henderson, I know how that can feel, and I bet many others here do too. Most writers go through that and have such feelings, so there's no shame in feeling or admitting it. We all understand you, and we're all with you no matter what you do, and when you're ready to do it.
Remember, it took me years to do another update to my TL, but like yours is to you, mine is a passion too, and we don't give up easily, right? So when you feel up to it, you can come back and we'll be ready with comments and support once more!
Thank you very much for sharing your thoughts and I'm sure I'm not alone in giving you good wishes.
Sargon
Chapter VII: Leontios
Chapter VII: Leontios
May, 692, Alexandretta [1]
May, 692, Alexandretta [1]
Leontios sat outside the ruined walls of Alexandretta, gazing towards the tall peaks and narrow coast that made the landscape. All he had done for that boy, all the labor he had performed for Justinian and his father, and yet he had still been taken away from the battlefield and given a handful of men to defend himself with. All for what? So the boy could play Odysseus and attempt to pull a bag over the head of the Arabs? Leontios lamented, his work doomed to annihilation for some young man’s dreams of glory to be fulfilled.
The general sat despondent in his seat, staring at the narrow mountain pass. Should an army come rushing through the narrow roads, he and his men would be doomed. Only three-thousand left to stand guard against an onslaught of tens of thousands, should Justinian and his ludicrous plan fail. His own emperor was gambling his life as if it were nothing. Leontios began to grind his teeth in frustration, but was interrupted by a tapping at his shoulder.
“My General,” the soldier said, “the prisoner has arrived.”
Leontios let out a sigh and rose from his seat. “So be it. Take me to him.”
——————
The room was dimly lit, only two small windows inside allowing sunlight to enter. As Leontios walked inside he saw 5 men standing in the room, not including himself and the soldier who had brought him there. 3 of them were other soldiers, standing in the corners of the room, and two other men were sitting at a table. The man to the left seemed a noble or senator of some kind, given from his luxurious clothes and well groomed hair, however the man sitting next to him at the table was much worse for wear.
“Honored General.” The noble rose from his chair. “I am called Thomas [2], I was sent from Constantinople to accompany our guest here.”
Leontios nodded. “Interesting. Tell me Thomas, why have you been sent all this way to accompany him? Surely the men in his guard detail would have sufficed in this service.”
“Well the Emperor requested of me specifically, and asked that I come to the frontier and learn from you, sir.”
Leontios felt his shoulder muscles tighten. First the young prick sends him away from the battlefield to gamble his life on a foolish trick, and now he sends this pampered patrician novice to watch over him, as if he were disloyal. For all that he had done.
“If it is what he decrees, then so be it.” Leontios took a seat at the table, and Thomas followed him immediately.
“I take it this is the poor survivor?” Leontios said, staring at the battered man across from him.
“Yes sir, he is Abdelas, son of Souleiman [3]. I do not believe he is of any importance to the Arabs, but perhaps his return will terrify and convince them to halt this foolish war.”
Leontios stared at Thomas for a second, followed by a loud burst of laughter. The young patrician became flushed immediately. “The Emperor was right to send you boy, you are in sore need of a proper military education.”
Leontios turned his face back to Abdelas. His face was dark, especially in the dimly lit room, but the General could still make out the man’s facial features. His black hair and beard were unkempt, and it seemed as if chunks had been torn out altogether. His face was also covered in welts and bruises, his tan skin peppered with spots of black and blue. And that was to say nothing of the rhinokopia inflicted upon him, as well as the clipping of his ears. But what Leontios found truly haunting were his eyes. The former commander’s deep brown eyes were hollow, lacking any semblance of life. The poor bastard may have been spared, but he seemed to already be a walking corpse. Leontios felt almost a twinge of sadness, more so out of the realization that this could be him rather than genuine sympathy.
“How do you wish to return him sir?” Thomas asked, snapping Leontios out of his thoughts.
The General hesitated for a second, attempting to compose a response. “Has he seen the city and our garrison?”
“No sir, one of the men insisted he was covered with a bag, though I do not see how that was of any help.”
“It allows us to hide our true numbers, boy. Should the chieftain and his army know that our forces here are but a skeleton, our plan would become undone faster than a cheap linen.”
“I see.” Thomas bowed his head in shame, his face once more flustered bright red.
“I believe we should send him back the way he came.” Leontios pointed to the man who had escorted him to the room. “You and another of the guards here will take Abdelas. Bag him and ride him out to the walls of Antioch. From there you should leave him to wander the outskirts until his own find him, for your own safety.”
“Yes, General.” The soldier replied. He nodded towards one of the men in the room and both dragged the prisoner from the room. Not an ounce of resistance was given, nor any emotion shown, which only chilled Leontios more. To think this what Justinian had planned, to send the Arabs a mutilated and shattered commander, thinking it would scare them. All the boy had done was poke at a lion, while his head was still in its jaws. He was risking them all for vainglory and a wish to eclipse his father. Perhaps this rash child was not the best candidate for the throne.
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[1] Modern day İskenderun, Turkey
[2] An OC, as we don’t really know many close companions of Justinian.
[3] Once again another OC. Hope you can forgive me, but finding records on minor officials in this timeframe is impossible.
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Ramontxo
Donor
Does the prisoner understand Greek? Because if he does and is released after hearing the conversation...
I am starting to see why Leonitos was a poor emperor after overthrowing Justinian II.
Vulkan lives! Stomp! Stomp!
That sure would be a major fuck-up, but no he doesn't understand Greek, like most Arabs of the time.
I wonder what could've given that off.
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a lot of the fututure emperors would be generals Apsimar later tiberius III was a commander from what i read you included an oc Stephen irl there was a Stephen the persian, the other problems if we dont know some people were in position in the first reing like Theophylact Salibas and Theodore Karteroukas, though i wonder would mauros be restored in this timeline