The Justiniad --- A Heraclian Timeline

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Carter I'm Yog

Banned
Henderson said:
That is a very good question. Neither Theophanes nor Nikephoros actually make the reason of their defection clear, and ITTL I'll just ascribe it to them being promised a larger portion of the loot than OTL.
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Oddly simple yet functionally reasonable answer. Of course, what interests me more is how you plan to work on the development on the Slavs, making them go the Vandal way or the Frank way? Don't worry, the question is rhetorical, I'll just be on the lookout when you mention them.
Henderson said:
Yeah with all these likes I'm realizing that a lot of people probably thought that this was a timeline on the Justinian I.
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If it helps, I clicked like after seeing this was about Justinian II.

I thought this would start from Justin I dying before he resolves the Acacian Schism though. Then Petrus would take Zeno and Anastasius' position (enforce Henotikon, since he exercises so much influence over his uncle's state of affairs he is probably personally involved in the Schism-resolving negotiations, so the backlash would be on him if it fails) and more Armenians enter Roman service.

Then Heraclius the Elder (Heraclius I's dad) takes over as Justin II's son-in-law.

Yes, I came up with all this just looking at your title. Then I read you started at Justinian II. :oops:
Henderson said:
Yeah I'll add that for the proper chapters, but since this is a prologue & the POD is in the footnotes, I don't think it's necessary yet.
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Ok then.
 
Henderson

Henderson

Carter I'm Yog said:
If it helps, I clicked like after seeing this was about Justinian II.

I thought this would start from Justin I dying before he resolves the Acacian Schism though. Then Petrus would take Zeno and Anastasius' position (enforce Henotikon, since he exercises so much influence over his uncle's state of affairs he is probably personally involved in the Schism-resolving negotiations, so the backlash would be on him if it fails) and more Armenians enter Roman service.

Then Heraclius the Elder (Heraclius I's dad) takes over as Justin II's son-in-law.

Yes, I came up with all this just looking at your title. Then I read you started at Justinian II. :oops:
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Honestly thats a pretty interesting POD in and of itself, and I'm amazed you came up with it while rationalizing a title. But I'm finding it hilarious rn that most of my likes came from people who were probably wondering "Justinian and Heraclius?? Porque??".
 
Flavius Iulius Nepos

Flavius Iulius Nepos

Henderson said:
Wow. That blew up way faster than I thought it would, especially since it's 10 PM for me rn. I'm glad so many people enjoyed it and have hopes for the future
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If there is one thing this forum loves is definitely roman timelines.
Henderson said:
Yeah there will be no Twenty Years Anarchy, which most certainly means a much stronger Rome. But one should probably keep an eye on the Umayyads given their current situation.
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And it is really good to hear this will not be a timeline where the empire just manages to reconquer everything within 15-20 years.
Lady Visenya said:
>doing the timeline i myself have been sitting on for a while

Oh well, you know what they say about early birds and all that. :laugh:

Congrats!
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You should post that anyway if you are still working on it! I'd love to read more late antique timelines.
Henderson said:
Justinian
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Honestly I clicked this thinking it would be a Justinian (the first)'s timeline. Surprisingly enough there are not many of those either. But I was secretly hoping for a timeline about the second Justinian (especially before the loss of Africa).
 

Vinization

This looks very promising! Watched.

Here's hoping the Heraclians can take advantage of the Umayyads' internal weaknesses once they start to manifest themselves.
 

Carter I'm Yog

Banned
Flavius Iulius Nepos said:
Given the POD however, the emperor is still in control of his nose.
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Ok then.
Vinization said:
Here's hoping the Heraclians can take advantage of the Umayyads' internal weaknesses once they start to manifest themselves.
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And hopefully the Heraclians don't die out because there are so few of them this time. Consider Makedon, who have been reduced to the last male so many times it has been a real miracle for their dynasty too last nearly two centuries.
 
Lady Visenya

Lady Visenya

A victory at Sebastopolis is also a huge morale thing. It's a major Roman victory. Romans might develop a different stance with regards to warfare here, whether that's positive or negative remains to be seen.
 
Henderson

Henderson

Vinization said:
This looks very promising! Watched.

Here's hoping the Heraclians can take advantage of the Umayyads' internal weaknesses once they start to manifest themselves.
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Bold of you to assume they haven't already manifested.

Carter I'm Yog said:
Ok then.

And hopefully the Heraclians don't die out because there are so few of them this time. Consider Makedon, who have been reduced to the last male so many times it has been a real miracle for their dynasty too last nearly two centuries.
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The Heraclians were pretty much consistently cut down to either one or two members. Currently at the POD the count stands at 2, Justinian and his younger brother Heraclius, which is at least better than what Justinian's grandfather & father faced.

Lady Visenya said:
A victory at Sebastopolis is also a huge morale thing. It's a major Roman victory. Romans might develop a different stance with regards to warfare here, whether that's positive or negative remains to be seen.
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Yeah, "It was brutal, but at least it was a victory, something which had been rare in this time." is a bit indicative of how the Roman mentality is beginning to turn, in the belief that they could not only weather the storm, but brave it. Combined with Justinian's OTL extreme piety and you have a crockpot of fanaticism ready to burst.
 

Dagoth Ur

Banned
Henderson said:
Based, Sabbatius doesn't deserve the hype 😎

Also holy hell 3 pages already and I still haven't made the first official chapter, this really is blowing up.
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It's not really surprising, Byzantium gets a shitton of hype always. Especially when it's actually well written as your first chapter is
 

Dagoth Ur

Banned
Henderson said:
Ibn Zubayr is going to have a well needed break


True true, but is my writing really that good? Feels kinda simplistic to me tbh.
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Simple is good. It tells exactly what it needs to and the prose itself is good without getting mired in detail. The brevity is also excellent for a first post, like a teaser.
 
Chapter I: Justinian II
  • Index
    • Henderson

    Henderson

    Chapter I: Justinian II

    March, 692, Sebastopolis [1]    ​


    The small dilapidated tent was surrounded by Excubitors, 6 in total it seemed, all surrounding the building like hawks. As he entered the tent, he found Mouameth [2], sitting in a chair in front of a table, watched over by another pair of Excubitors, as well as a man dressed in the simple garb of a foot soldier. Justinian took a seat in front of Mouameth, and looked at him.



    He lacked the garb that typically distinguished the leaders of the Arabs, likely having abandoned them in his failed flight. Instead he was dressed in the simple linothorax, with a plain white cloak and a white headdress. Still, despite the clothing, he retained the look of a noble. His beard was trimmed and groomed, and he had a calm energy to him, not panicking as a captured foot soldier would. Nevertheless, Justinian turned his head to the Roman soldier standing next to them.



    “Would I be correct to assume you are the translator for me?” Justinian said, glancing at the soldier.



    “Y-yes Basileus,” the soldier said, “I am fluent in their tongue.”



    Justinian nodded at the soldier, and began to speak.




    “Ask him how it feels, to see your God abandon your cause before your eyes.”



    The soldier spoke to Mouameth, and Mouameth replied, continuing to seem calm and unphased.



    “He says that his God has not abandoned him, but that he has only given them a trial to overcome.” translated the soldier.



    Mouameth spoke again, this time unprompted, forcing the soldier to translate once more.



    “He asks how much of a tribute you will demand his brother to hand over for his return and that of his soldiers.”



    Justinian scoffed. “He attempts to demand terms while he is our prisoner?” he asked, “Such boldness for a captive of war.”



    As he heard the translated words, Mouameth spoke back in his guttural language.



    "He says that we have grown proud of our few victories, and that we should not forget the true strength of their armies." the soldier said once again, glancing at the floor.



    Justinian glared at him, thinking about how he was so stoic in the face of his captors. "Your brother's armies are preoccupied, no?" he said, his voice slightly strained. "They are campaigning in Erithbos and Persis [3], far from us, and will be unable to react in time."



    The soldier spoke once more and Mouameth replied, still unfeeling and relaxed.



    "He claims that they still have reserve throughout Armenia, and despite our best attempts they still outnumber us."



    Justinian felt his teeth grind for a second, but stopped and attempted to calm himself. “They are fresh, no? And their commanders remain to be proven.”



    Mouameth smirked upon hearing the translation, and replied. “He says that although they are inexperienced, they could conquer us in a heartbeat.” The soldier paused for a second, visibly uneasy. “That their raw recruits could march over Rome as they had before. That their God will grant them their victory.”



    Justinian seethed, and realized his jaw was clenched in frustration. He rose from the table and walked out of the tent, without word nor warning. As he opened the flap he heard a small snicker, followed by the sound of a slap, come from the inside. Upon exiting he saw Leontios standing outside, facing him directly.



    “Basileus, what-” Leontios attempted so speak, before being cut off.



    “Were you in my position, what would you do?” Justinian asked, his teeth gnashing.



    “Pardon?” Leontios replied, his eyebrows raised.



    “Were you in my position, what would you do with this heathen? What choice would you make?” Justinian asked again, his pale face reddened in irritation.



    Leontios paused for a few seconds, then replied with an answer. “I would ransom him and his men to his brother, and extract from them another treaty of tribute.”



    “But that is what he wants,” Justinian said, his voice beginning to elevate. “He wishes for it, because he knows they will return with an army and continue to ransack without mercy. And every day we give to Abimelech to negotiate, is more time for him and his generals to leave Erithbos and march upon us.” His breath was heavy and he felt a beating alongside his temple.



    “What other option is there, my liege?” Leontios responded. “This is the nature of politics, of war.”



    “We could kill him. Have his body paraded through Constantinople as a sign of our victory.”



    Leontios’s face turned pale at the mention. “That would be an extremely unwise choice sire.”



    “Why? Would they not do the same if they had captured you? Did they not treat generals like Thomas or Cyril in the same manner? [4] Should they afford no mercy to us then we should afford no mercy to them!” he yelled, fists clenched.



    Leontios looked shocked, and the guards around the tent shared a similar face of surprise. “My lord, should you kill him, you have no idea the wrath that might be visited upon us by the Arabs, what terrors they might bring to bear upon our people.” Leontios said, his voice soft and eyes wide.



    “God is with us! Our God, he delivered us at Constantinople, at Lycia, against the Sklaveni, and now here on the fields of Cilica! Their true soldiers are off on the ends of the earth, and the only ones that remain are scattered or fresh off the press! This is our chance, to do this, to avenge the disgrace of my ancestors, of our lands, of our people.” His eyes had widened now, his blonde bangs forming a stark contrast to his apple red skin.



    Leontios clasped his hands together, and bowed himself in front of his Emperor. “I beg you please! Rethink this, before your rashness leads to unnecessary carnage and suffering, please! If not for me, for the people, for your soldiers, for the legacy your father fought to build!”



    Justinian paused, his face twisted into both confusion and contempt. “My father’s legacy? This is the legacy of my father, to kill the heathen where they stand! To put an end to their invasions and pillaging of our Christian nation. I do this to protect my people from raiders, to ensure my soldiers will not have to return and fight hundreds of wars, this is to save Rome!”



    “Please, Basileus, please.” The general tugged on Justinian’s chlamys [5], but the Emperor quickly yanked it away from him.



    “Show some dignity, you are a General of Rome, not a beggar on the streets. Now rise, for the decision has already been made.”



    Leontios rose from his bowing position, and walked away towards his quarters, head hanging and arms falling at his side. It was a sad sight, to see the man who had just won the battle slink away into the camp as if he were defeated.



    Justinian re-entered the tent, and looked the soldier dead in the eye. The man was visibly shaken, likely having heard the conversation outside the tent. “Tell this barbarian that he will not be ransomed, but that he will be taken to Constantinople. There he will be dragged through the streets like the animal he is, and killed in the great hippodrome, dying to the cheerful glee of the Christian world.” His voice was calmer now, more levelled.



    The soldier spoke and Mouameth’s face turned pale. His eyes seemed as if they would fall out of their sockets. Justinian felt his anger be overtaken by a sense of joy, seeing this stone wall crumble in the face of his promise. Mouameth sat in shock for a minute, before rising from his chair and lunging at Justinian. He managed to tackle the Emperor to the ground, but was quickly pulled off by the guards within the room, and beaten by them until his face turned the same shade of purple as Justinian’s robes. The Emperor raised himself from the ground and smoothed out his clothings, his face stoic but his mind filled with satisfaction.

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    [1] The actual date for the battle of Sebastopolis is unknown, only the year, so I decided to have it happen in March just to be extra mean to the Umayyads.
    [2] I originally misspelled the Greek transliteration of Muhammad, this is the proper form.
    [3] Greek names for Hejaz and Fars, where they are respectively, besieging Ibn Zubayr's army in Mecca, and being defeated by the Kharijites.
    [4] In reference to Thomas, commander of the Roman garrison at Damascus, and Cyril of Alexandria, commander of the last Roman Army in Egypt.
    [5] A traditional Greek robe, often worn by Emperors between the 6th and 12th centuries.
     
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  • Index
    • Flavius Iulius Nepos

    Flavius Iulius Nepos

    Guess that is a trial he will not overcome. I am with Justinian on this (and happy for his personal little victory). On the other hand I would spare the prisoners of war and resettle them in the Balkans, either as soldiers or as farmers.
     
    Henderson

    Henderson

    Flavius Iulius Nepos said:
    Guess that is a trial he will not overcome. I am with Justinian on this (and happy for his personal little victory). On the other hand I would spare the prisoners of war and resettle them in the Balkans, either as soldiers or as farmers.
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    Haha, that's a good one. But resettlement is not an option for them whatsoever. I'd say given his current temperament they're in between joining their general or spending the rest of their (miserably short) existence in the hull of a galley.
     

    RyuDrago

    Well, I can see the point of Justinian II here. We will see how he would be able to keep the momentum, because Leontios has still a valid point - soon or later, the Ummayads will try to retaliate.

    But at least Armenia should be secure for the time being, hence, the more sensible front will remain the southern one...

    Anyway a victory is still a victory and Justinian can spend it in the internal front. Of course, it means nothing in the long term if the taxation issues of the time won't be solved...
     
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