The Jewish problem and solution in CP victory world

[Graf v. Klugerman]

If the CP victory is after a long war, it is likely the Turks will have to grant some concessions to the Arabs, perhaps an Arab kingdom or two (Damascus/Hejaz?)

Assuming the most severely oppressed Jewish populations are in newly created Poland, Ukraine, Belarus, as well as civil-war torn Russia, and generally poor, there is likely to be increased repression during national development in those new countries and equally likely refugees from that repression moving west into Germany, Austria, Hungary, Romania, etc. (or Austria-Hungary -- I'm not convinced the dual monarchy stays together, even in a CP victory)

If that occurs, the great powers with pressure from the Zionist movement, may privately or carefully publicly suggest and encourage the Turks allow a semi-autonomous Jewish state within a state, as a potential counterbalance to the Arab state or states within a state. This ameliorates the refugee problem in Europe. I do not know if this compromise would be acceptable to anyone though or how plausible.

 

[BlondieBC]

If the CP victory is after a long war, it is likely the Turks will have to grant some concessions to the Arabs, perhaps an Arab kingdom or two (Damascus/Hejaz?)

Assuming the most severely oppressed Jewish populations are in newly created Poland, Ukraine, Belarus, as well as civil-war torn Russia, and generally poor, there is likely to be increased repression during national development in those new countries and equally likely refugees from that repression moving west into Germany, Austria, Hungary, Romania, etc. (or Austria-Hungary -- I'm not convinced the dual monarchy stays together, even in a CP victory)

If that occurs, the great powers with pressure from the Zionist movement, may privately or carefully publicly suggest and encourage the Turks allow a semi-autonomous Jewish state within a state, as a potential counterbalance to the Arab state or states within a state. This ameliorates the refugee problem in Europe. I do not know if this compromise would be acceptable to anyone though or how plausible.

The Ottomans would not have allowed a Zionist state, unless by encourage you mean invade. Some Jewish population for cash would have been allowed, but there is no way the Ottomans would turn the Jordan valley into the modern dilemma that Israel/Palestine is today. Muslim, Christian, and the existing Jewish population had issues with large scale Jewish migration.

The Arabs revolted, I can't see the Ottomans rewarding the revolting Arabs. Massacres of the revolting tribes along with rewards for those that remained loyal is more likely.

I do agree that Jews would likely be partially expelled from Russia and Poland.

 

[Wolfpaw]

Well, I can't see things going well for Jews in France or whatever hell eastern Europe becomes. Things may get worse for them in Britain as well. Germany and AH had an unhealthy number of influential Lugerites...

Off to America!
​

 

[Graf v. Klugerman]

The Ottomans would not have allowed a Zionist state, unless by encourage you mean invade. Some Jewish population for cash would have been allowed, but there is no way the Ottomans would turn the Jordan valley into the modern dilemma that Israel/Palestine is today. Muslim, Christian, and the existing Jewish population had issues with large scale Jewish migration.

The Arabs revolted, I can't see the Ottomans rewarding the revolting Arabs. Massacres of the revolting tribes along with rewards for those that remained loyal is more likely.

I do agree that Jews would likely be partially expelled from Russia and Poland.

In a long war CP victory, depending on how we get that outcome, the Ottomans have effectively lost, as the Russians did in OTL. In OTL Russia is on the "winning" side, and the Brest-Litovsk treaty annulled, but Russia still lost Finland, the Baltics, Poland, and for a time Ukraine. The British still had to concede an Irish Free State in 1922.

Depending on when this TL's armistice occur, you have substantial British gains in Mesopotamia, that will only be undone by Germany's victory on the Western Front, and pressure at this TL's peace conference for the British to withdraw from Mesopotamia, and presumably N. Africa, same for Italy. (Similar to Germany's withdrawal from Poland and the Baltics in OTL)

I have read allusions to Faisel and other revolt leaders having a contingency to settle if Britain lost the war, but have not seen the details.

Germany interest at this point will likely be replacing British influence in Arabia, and N. Africa (although the British aren't likely to give up Suez too easily) then the political outcome of the Arab revolt. But pragmatically, it may be in Germany's interest to have influence with local Arab kingdoms (as the British did in Kuwait) then via the Porte.

 

[Nivek]

In a long war CP victory, depending on how we get that outcome, the Ottomans have effectively lost, as the Russians did in OTL. In OTL Russia is on the "winning" side, and the Brest-Litovsk treaty annulled, but Russia still lost Finland, the Baltics, Poland, and for a time Ukraine. The British still had to concede an Irish Free State in 1922.

Depending on when this TL's armistice occur, you have substantial British gains in Mesopotamia, that will only be undone by Germany's victory on the Western Front, and pressure at this TL's peace conference for the British to withdraw from Mesopotamia, and presumably N. Africa, same for Italy. (Similar to Germany's withdrawal from Poland and the Baltics in OTL)

I have read allusions to Faisel and other revolt leaders having a contingency to settle if Britain lost the war, but have not seen the details.

Germany interest at this point will likely be replacing British influence in Arabia, and N. Africa (although the British aren't likely to give up Suez too easily) then the political outcome of the Arab revolt. But pragmatically, it may be in Germany's interest to have influence with local Arab kingdoms (as the British did in Kuwait) then via the Porte.

Prebellum the german would have been very gladly of Playing the same game agains the ottoman... Prebellum

During ww1 a lot of debate was how threat the ottoman empire, because as long they control the bosphorus and Middle East... they will be a vital card against both British and Russian(Germany fear of both nation resurgent post bellum) but again political indecision doesn't mean nothing...

Some(rast and wiking) think than would have been more easy support both bulgaria and Ottomans as proxies in the Balkans and Middle East/North Africa, and that is pefectly pausable.

Again in the negotiation table... who worry most the british? the channel port of belgium or the land of middle east?

And Blondie have give us the best option... the Jewish Question never willl be fully answer, Rast manage to do it(the Heymstat in Belarus)... but that is other fiddle, I think something similar in east poland/belarus can stil happen

But Jews in Middle east... not in a CP world.

About the Arabs... the German policy was finish the Berlin Bagdad, and some extension to the persian sea... with the arabs being ruse... The Ottomans is the most sensitive option