The Japanese take Darwin in World War II.

Discussion in 'Alternate History Discussion: After 1900' started by Ricardolindo, Feb 1, 2019.

  1. Ricardolindo Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2018
    Location:
    Portugal
    What if the Japanese moved forwards with their plans to take Darwin in World War II?
    How long does it take for the Australians to retake it?
    How does this affect the rest of the war? How does this affect Australian culture?
     
  2. History Learner Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2012
     
  3. David Floyd Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2008
    Well, Darwin turns into a self sufficient POW camp, and Japanese supply lines could be better termed "a target rich environment."
     
  4. general general

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2009
    Location:
    Godzone wine country
    Well, the crocs get plenty of fresh meat. No McArthur is a bonus! :cool:
     
  5. Tannenberg (Angry Argentinian Noises)

    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2018
    - We did it, Yamamoto. We took Darwin!!!
    - What now, Yamashita?
    - Now we can take... more...desert.... at least the Australians are out of the war right?
    - Nope, they're drafting more men
    - But the Americans...
    - I think're they gonna send reinforcements
    - Welll...you know that I always wanted to create manga?
     
    Chapman, HelloThere, BigVic and 21 others like this.
  6. NOMISYRRUC He isn't the best, but he is in the top one...

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2014
    My guess is that the first Ghan will arrive in Dawin in 1944 rather than 2004.

    This is because I think that the railway from Adelaide to Alice Springs would gradually be extended northwards to make an overland liberation of Darwin feasible.
     
  7. Pangur The Cat Donor

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2010
    Location:
    Australia
    The above sums it up quite nicely. US subs out of Fremantle would have a short trip to work. They Japanese either die of hunger, die at sea, die when a croc has his/her lunch, spiders, snakes and then the Aussies get a crack at them. Bottom line is, they die until they surrender
     
    Johnrankins likes this.
  8. New Hampshire Jimmy Dore Banned

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2019
    Location:
    Europe
    Darwin was dead by 1882.
     
  9. GDIS Pathe Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2016
    Whoop de do Nuclear cloud over home islands 45 war ends and the Aussies are more pissed against the Japanese
     
    Johnrankins likes this.
  10. Dathi THorfinnsson Daði Þorfinnsson

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2007
    Location:
    Syracuse, Haudenosaunee, Vinland
  11. History Learner Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2012
    In all honestly this significantly derails the Pacific War, by essentially removing Australia, conceding the Southwest Pacific, and giving the Japanese plenty of oil.
     
  12. Pangur The Cat Donor

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2010
    Location:
    Australia
    How does it remove Australia? Darwin is up on the to end of the country and isolated
     
    iani and chad like this.
  13. History Learner Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2012
    Removing Darwin forces the Allies out of New Guinea and the Solomons which, in addition to airbases around Darwin itself, threaten much of the logistics stream to Australia. I don't think the Japanese will be able to cut it off but, combined with Australia political will being focused on liberating Australian soil first, will keep the Aussies from doing much else in the Pacific for a time and renders the place useless as a strategic base.
     
  14. Chris Triangle Triangulator

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2011
    OK, that does it. I'm getting awfully tired of this routine. Every time we talk about scenarios in the Pacific war, somebody comes along and reminds us that whatever we're talking about doesn't change the outcome, implying that the proposed POD is unworthy of further discussion. Yes, we all know about the USA's industrial might and all of the other things that determined the course of the conflict - because they are brought up on an almost daily basis. But you know what? Some of us are interested in the details and not just the big picture.

    History comes at various resolutions and sometimes it is interesting to explore the finer ones. Just because a war has a predetermined outcome does not mean it has a predetermined course or that that course is not interesting enough to consider.
     
    Last edited: Feb 3, 2019
  15. SwampTiger Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2016
    Darwin impacts Timor and NEI much more than New Guinea and westward. A simple look at a map shows Darwin has no impact on imports to eastern Australia, and just nuisance issues to western Australia. Japan has no chance of pushing further south. Australia may send a division into the area as it builds airfields and railways north from Alice Springs or west from Broome. Otherwise, just ignore the Japanese.
     
  16. Jellico Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2017
    And? Supplies to Australia aren't coming through SEA any more. They are going south like the good old days or across the Pacific. No change to OTL. Indeed the Pacific route gets easier with less fighting in the Solomons. Using Darwin as a base to raid the Indian Ocean routes has all the OTL problems that existed using the DEI as a base.

    As for getting the Aussies to focus on their home soil? Thanks to a certain dugout dweller, after PNG the Australian army was left in tertiary areas mopping up. Those ops are pretty much the definition of retaking Darwin. It is going to take years to get the transport assets to do it anyway.

    As noted elsewhere. As noted above the main things Australia was doing in the second half of the war was providing pilots and reverse lend lease. The pilots might be an issue but the rest will continue.
     
  17. History Learner Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2012
    The Japanese don't have to move South, as naval and air units operating from the area do it for them.Japanese bombers based in Darwin could've hit any target in Queensland all the way to Brisbane, including the docks in the aforementioned Brisbane and Townsville where war supplies were shipped, while in the west they could hit any target down to Exmouth, threatening the air link to India. Control of Darwin means New Guinea cannot be held since Port Moresby is cut off, and thus the Solomons as well. No overland invasion of Darwin is practical, given the sheer distance of desert that must be crossed; it'd take years to build the airbases and infrastructure to support such. An amphibious invasion is much the same, as attacking from the east would require advancing into the narrow Torres strait while the Japanese have air superiority thanks to Darwin and Ambon, while the Solomons and lack of airbases on the West would also mean combating Japanese air superiority or waiting at least until sometime in 1943 to get the air bases needed.
     
  18. Zheng He Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2013
    While do not agree with at all with the notion that the Japanese taking Darwin makes Port Moresby and the Solomon Island untenable for the Allies given that Rabaul and bases in northern PNG are much closer to those locations and they failed to do so, IMWO the Japanese taking Darwin is one of the more intriguing COAs they can pursue. It will not win them the war but it will throw a monkey wrench in Allied relations. Washington and London will be happy to let contain the Japanese in place and let it be a giant POW camp the Japanese have to supply. Canberra will not be so sanguine about the issue and will want to recover its territory and liberate its citizens. I would love to see at TL on this.
     
    Chris Triangle and Shadow Master like this.
  19. History Learner Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2012
    Taking Darwin cuts off the closest resupply base for New Guinea and places the next closest two, Brisbane and Townsville, under Japanese bomber range as well as gives the Japanese air superiority in the approaches to Port Moresby.
     
  20. SwampTiger Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2016
    A half dozen radar stations and airstrips will degrade any threat fairly quickly. It doesn't take much to down a Nell, Betty or Sally. Zeros will be hard pressed to reach these targets. The Japanese failed to suppress Port Moresby from Lae.
     
    Johnrankins and chad like this.