The Japanese Capture the USS Hornet

[MerryPrankster]

A friend of mine is watching Battle 360 and he said the Japanese found the carrier USS Hornet adrift and sank her. He was wondering if it was possible they could capture her instead.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_the_Santa_Cruz_Islands

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Hornet_(CV-8)#Solomons_campaign.2C_August.E2.80.93October.2C_1942

My guess is that even if the Japanese successfully capture the ship, they'll still run out of trained pilots. She might end up just another decoy luring Halsey away while the big-guns go in at Samar.

However, you could have an interesting story involving a dramatic attempt to recapture the Hornet...

 

[Shaby]

It would not help them in the least. They would need to tow her to the repairing facilities (which I presume would be in Japan) and I presume the ship was already sinking, it was just the matter of time when she would give up the ghot and slip under.

The highly unlikely, in fact vanishingly improbable, possibility of hauling her to dry dock, they would probably figure she was a total loss in any case. Or that they'd need years to bring her back to operation.

 

[Bob in Pittsburgh]

More interesting is the intelligence benefits that may have been available on the derelict. I am sure efforts were made to dispose of all codes, coding machines etc but something may have been missed. Even things like repair manuals would have been of some interest.

 

[Grand Admiral Thrawn]

American "necessities"

What would they think of the ice cream machine? That oddly was the first thing I thought of. They might get some propaganda out of capturing it, and might even waste time rebuilding it. Although if she survived the war it would be awkward; does the USN reclaim and rebuild out of spite (despite smallish), tow to Bikini Atoll, or quietly scrap?

 

[HMS Warspite]

It would not help them in the least. They would need to tow her to the repairing facilities (which I presume would be in Japan) and I presume the ship was already sinking, it was just the matter of time when she would give up the ghot and slip under.

The highly unlikely, in fact vanishingly improbable, possibility of hauling her to dry dock, they would probably figure she was a total loss in any case. Or that they'd need years to bring her back to operation.

Appart from that, the japanese had no large tugs around in the Solomons, so towing the heavy bulk, partly water filled hulk of the huge ship, which a Yorktown carrier basically is, is seriously questionable. Vice Admiral Kondo's decission was the right one, sink it as soon as possible, with torpedoes that did do what they were supposed to do, unlike the contemporary USN torpedoes of the day. (The USS Mustin and Andersson both hit the USS Hornet with five and six torpedoes and around 400 5 inch shells, with the later only increasing the fires above the waterline. Only three torpedoes seemed to detonate on impact, but appearently with no results.) HRIJS Makigumo and Akigumo both used two torpedoes which all hit and detonated on impact, sinking the ship in a few minutes. The IJN destroyers possibly hit Hornet from both sides, in order to hole the hulk completely, speeding up sinking.

 

[MerryPrankster]

What would they think of the ice cream machine? That oddly was the first thing I thought of. They might get some propaganda out of capturing it, and might even waste time rebuilding it. Although if she survived the war it would be awkward; does the USN reclaim and rebuild out of spite (despite smallish), tow to Bikini Atoll, or quietly scrap?

I suggested rebuilding it and giving it a name calculated to piss off the United States, like whatever the Japanese called their victory at Bataan.

 

[kclcmdr]

I suggested rebuilding it and giving it a name calculated to piss off the United States, like whatever the Japanese called their victory at Bataan.

It took Japan at least two years for them to rebuild the IJN CV Shinano from a half built hulled Battleship to a Carrier; from June 1942 to Oct 1944;

A badly damaged & listing USN CV Hornet being towing back to Imperial Japan with their own Naval Codes more or less being read by US Intel at a semi-regular basis would in theory have gotten the USN to send as many US Submarines that are available to patrol the region where that party of IJN ships are towing the badly damaged Hornet back to Japan and target the Taskforce ...

and either force the IJN to release their captive and still listing USN Carrier or send Torps into her or allow the USN Subs to prevent its re-capture.... meh.

 

[Mike Stearns]

I suggested rebuilding it and giving it a name calculated to piss off the United States, like whatever the Japanese called their victory at Bataan.

Why not just call it the Bataan?

But yeah, once the Americans figure out that the Japanese have one of their aircraft carriers, they will do two things:

1. Immediately change their Naval codes to prevent the Japanese fro reading their encrypted radio traffic.

2. Sink the Hornet to spare her ignominy of being an enemy war prize.

 

[The Kiat]

2. Sink the Hornet to spare her ignominy of being an enemy war prize.

Seems like a few posters above you forgot the prestige of taking an enemy's ship as a trophy.

 

[kclcmdr]

Seems like a few posters above you forgot the prestige of taking an enemy's ship as a trophy.

A crippled, listing and sinking hulk that has to be towed and the holes patch will take alot of IJN ships and crew to start anything..

And I suspect that where the Hornet had been badly damaged in the Solomon Slot near the Santa Cruz Is. region might just be within Allied twin-engine or Quad Engine bomber range.....

And the Cactus Air Force at Guadalcanal might have a go at attacking or interdicting any attempt to tow the crippled and listing Hornet back NorthWest towards Turk Is. and then to the Phillipines and then onward towards Japan...

Many, many miles for an IJN Taskforce to tow, escort and protect a sinking and listing hulk and evade Allied Air and Submarine patrols hunting for her while IJN Intel is being read and decipher by American Intel ....

 

[The Kiat]

A crippled, listing and sinking hulk that has to be towed and the holes patch will take alot of IJN ships and crew to start anything..

And I suspect that where the Hornet had been badly damaged in the Solomon Slot near the Santa Cruz Is. region might just be within Allied twin-engine or Quad Engine bomber range.....

And the Cactus Air Force at Guadalcanal might have a go at attacking or interdicting any attempt to tow the crippled and listing Hornet back NorthWest towards Turk Is. and then to the Phillipines and then onward towards Japan...

Many, many miles for an IJN Taskforce to tow, escort and protect a sinking and listing hulk and evade Allied Air and Submarine patrols hunting for her while IJN Intel is being read and decipher by American Intel ....

A prize like an enemy carrier would be worth the risk (up to a certain point). If the IJN has air superiority, that would help in hauling in the catch. Even if it doesn't, level bombers can't hit jack out at sea. Subs would be a bigger menace; after all, the USN did manage to do to Japan with subs what the Germans were trying to do to Britain.

 

[mattep74]

Wouldnt the tf move so slow because of Hornets condition that the US would say "Thank you and then send anything they could at the taskforce with the intention to sink as many japanese ships as possible.

Then the japanese would respond with sending more ships to protect their prize out of honor and even if they get Hornet to a friendly port they will loose more ships than Hornet is worth in the end.

 

[eltf177]

A prize like an enemy carrier would be worth the risk (up to a certain point). If the IJN has air superiority, that would help in hauling in the catch. Even if it doesn't, level bombers can't hit jack out at sea. Subs would be a bigger menace; after all, the USN did manage to do to Japan with subs what the Germans were trying to do to Britain.

The problem is that the IJN _doesn't_ have air superiority; of course the USN doesn't either. IIRC the Japanese did give some brief thought to trying to salvage the hull but as mentioned above had no tugs in the area. It was quickly realized salvaging the hull simply wasn't possible without exposing the salvage crews to counterattack. It was then decided to sink her to prevent the USN from trying to salvage her again later on.

Given the massive fires I doubt anything of value remained intact to salvage anyway.