The Japanese advance into India in 1942

Impossible! In Burma Japan was beyond their logistical arc...

The best they could have done was try to support local uprisings and even that was going to be hard for them to do substantively.
 
But if they hit Burma earlier and harder , they may have been able to take Imphal in 42 before the monsoons hit.

It didn't matter. They didn't have the shipping capacity to maintain their current sphere from a logistics standpoint. They were past the end of their 'logistical string' so even if they invaded earlier and took Imphal they wouldn't have been able to adequately supply their troops. They never really were able to 'supply' the army in Burma. Those solders lived off the land as did most of their troops throughout the Pacific.

More then any other reason this was why they lost. Honestly had Britain not been at war with Germany at the time I think they would have spanked the Japanese in Malaya. It would be interesting to model that scenario.
 

elkarlo

Banned
It didn't matter. They didn't have the shipping capacity to maintain their current sphere from a logistics standpoint. They were past the end of their 'logistical string' so even if they invaded earlier and took Imphal they wouldn't have been able to adequately supply their troops. They never really were able to 'supply' the army in Burma. Those solders lived off the land as did most of their troops throughout the Pacific.

More then any other reason this was why they lost. Honestly had Britain not been at war with Germany at the time I think they would have spanked the Japanese in Malaya. It would be interesting to model that scenario.

True the Japanese basically didn't have a supply tail.
But the British were in such disarray that they couldn't have stopped much if anything if the Japanese decided to do a three weeks of rice supply and capture supplies or die campaign like in 44
 
If there had not been a single person shooting at the Japanese, no naval forces sinking ships etc, they could not have advanced very far in India. Simply too large, too far away etc. Their merchant marine was inadequate on day one even with seized ships. They simply could not adequately supply their forces, even if they stole every bit of food they could get their hands on.
 
True the Japanese basically didn't have a supply tail.
But the British were in such disarray that they couldn't have stopped much if anything if the Japanese decided to do a three weeks of rice supply and capture supplies or die campaign like in 44

Would it have made a difference if the Japanese shelved plans to take the Solomons and New Guinea, and prioritized India?
 
Would it have made a difference if the Japanese shelved plans to take the Solomons and New Guinea, and prioritized India?

No because they don't have anywhere near the troops. Any priority on India is going to be primarily an IJA operation and it will require a lot of divisions, more than the small number the Solomons used up and the IJA is not going to agree to diverting that many troops from China. They wouldn't even cough up enough troops to invade Ceylon.

I'm sure with a few realistic PODs they could have gotten further in spring 1942 before the monsoons shut things down in May but that just sticks their guys on an even longer logistics chain in an area with lousy infrastructure that would experience famine in late 1942 and early 1943.
 

elkarlo

Banned
Would it have made a difference if the Japanese shelved plans to take the Solomons and New Guinea, and prioritized India?
Good question. Possibly. As those were naval campaigns and Def used shipping as well as fuel for offensive naval operations. That coukd have gone into India imho. Which was something that the Japanese could do. It also wouldn't have put their carriers at the extreme of their operating logistics . Plus they could have just taken some territory and declared India independent. Which would have caused trouble for British Indian stability
 

elkarlo

Banned
I mean, that happened OTL. However, it didn’t work because as far as most Indian nationalists were concerned, Japan was just another imperialist power.
That was 1944 when the invasion happened. Japan already shown that it was a hypocrite and couldn't be trusted. In 42, it may have had a different impact. Especially since the Japanese knew they couldn't hold India . Perhaps they'd give them something resembling independence
 
That was 1944 when the invasion happened. Japan already shown that it was a hypocrite and couldn't be trusted. In 42, it may have had a different impact. Especially since the Japanese knew they couldn't hold India . Perhaps they'd give them something resembling independence

First of all, Indian nationalists were opposed to Japan for a long time. Once upon a time, sure, they looked to Japan as an Asian power which could serve as a bulwark against western imperialism. But after the 1931 invasion of Manchuria, Indian nationalists with a few exceptions viewed Japan as just another empire.

I also don’t think Japan could ever give India something resembling independence, and even if they did, I don’t think Japan could ever give India the total independence nationalists wanted.
 
The Japanese are not going to conquer India, that's like conquering China only harder because the supply lines are even worse. The Japanese conquered Burma with four understrength divisions. Even if they had gotten further in 1942 and pushed into Assam and/or further up the coast to Chittagong they are not going to get much further. Time, distance, numbers (or lack thereof), and painfully long supply lines mean that at some point they have to stop due to the monsoons and then serious offensive operations don't begin again until mid-December by which time the British have significantly reinforced their position.

Also, pushing further than they did OTL is not going to undermine the overall British war position. I realize this is something of a popular what if theme - if only the Japanese and Germans could have forced a couple of more humiliating defeats on the British Empire in 1942 they would have folded. That's not going to happen, especially with the United States in the war 100%.

An Indian Ocean focused strategy for the Japanese in 1942 is an interesting TL although had they gone that route they would probably focus on Ceylon. It requires much less in the way of troop, is easier to defend once captured, and relies heavily on the IJN, Japan's greatest strength at that point in the war. Even then, that COA is going to be a hard sell for the IJA because they will have to cough up the troops for the operation and they did not want to OTL.
 
True the Japanese basically didn't have a supply tail.
But the British were in such disarray that they couldn't have stopped much if anything if the Japanese decided to do a three weeks of rice supply and capture supplies or die campaign like in 44

The problem is, they still would have to ship those 3 weeks of rice on top of the daily supplies need of the Japanese forces alreading in Burma, in order to build up the stock needed for the operation you suggest. The Japanese logistics was already hard pressed to supply the forces in Burma and did not have the capacity to build up the stock.

If no building up of and carrying of stocks is done, the operation would soon grind to a halt as the supply that would reach fighting forces would diminish gradually as the supply trip gets longer and longer between the frontline and the supply depot back in Burma. It is a game of diminishing return.

If the IJA want to rely on obtaining supplied locally by foraging, that is going to alineate local population and more importantly, not sufficient for the whole army. The sole major source of capturing supplies come from captured UK stores, but that would be subjected to sabotage as longer distance to travel in India give UK forces longer to prepare for sabotage.
 
Another problem the Japanese will have the further they bite into India is Allied airpower. Unlike the ground forces in Spring 1942, Allied air forces (mainly the RAF and AVG) were starting to get stronger toward the end of the campaign. The further the Japanese go, they further they get from their own airfields and the closer they get to Allied airfields. Then in the fall when the weather starts to improve and they will get hammered good and hard.
 

SwampTiger

Banned
What airpower? At one point, the Commonwealth fighter strength was one or two squadrons of Mohawk IV's. The British had allowed the Chinese bring the CAMCO H75A-5 assembly line to India in 1941. Hindustan Aircraft Ltd. started production in Bangalore of 48 Mohawks. Only four or five were completed before the British decided that allowing India to build its own fighters was bad for colonial policy. The line was shut down by May 1942. The Commonwealth force in India at the time was weak and old. Singapore had sucked the life out of the Indian defenses.
 
I'm sure with a few realistic PODs they could have gotten further in spring 1942 before the monsoons shut things down in May but that just sticks their guys on an even longer logistics chain in an area with lousy infrastructure that would experience famine in late 1942 and early 1943.

Shifts the blame off Churchill I guess :confused:
 
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