The Mamluks, nobles or not, were still persecuted slaves. Of course they rebelled.
And having a national army doesn't protect you from civil war either - just ask the Romans, the Byzantines, the Chinese or half the third world.
The Jaguar's Roar - An Aztec Timeline
- Thread starter Vinization
- Start date
And having a national army doesn't protect you from civil war either - just ask the Romans, the Byzantines, the Chinese or half the third world.
Why not encourage Morisco/Mudejar immigration to the Aztec Empire? I bet there are some Grenadine Muslims who would welcome the chance to start anew.
Coincidentally, Tenochtitlan's east-west alignment is almost directly pointed at Mecca...
it would be an interesting idea to import people to combat the loss due to disease. But depending on the number of immigrants in the country, it can be colonized internally.
wouldn't it be easier for muslims to go to morocco?
How much of its territory is actually habitable? Didn't a sizeable portion of the expelled Moriscos went to the Ottomans?
The clandestine practice of Islam continued well into the 16th century. In 1567, King Philip II finally made the use of the Arabic language illegal, and forbade the Islamic religion, dress, and customs, a step which led to the Second Rebellion of Alpujarras, involving acts of brutality.
The corresponding expulsion of Muslims from the Kingdom of Castille and Andalusia was officially completed in 1614 although its success has been questioned by modern scholars. Unlike the Kingdom of Aragon and Valencia, Moriscos were highly integrated in the rest of Spain significant number of them avoided expulsion or returned en masse, with the protection of non-morisco neighbours and local authorities.
Islam in Spain - Wikipedia
Although initial estimates of the number expelled such as those of Henri Lapeyre range between 275,000 and 300,000 Moriscos (or 4% of the total Spanish population), the extent and actual success of the expulsion order in purging Spain of its Moriscos has been increasingly challenged by modern historians, starting with the seminal studies carried out by François Martinez (1999) and Trevor J. Dadson (2007). Dadson estimates that, out of a total Morisco population of 500,000, a figure accepted by many, around 40% avoided expulsion altogether and tens of thousands of those expelled managed to return.
Of those permanently expelled, the majority eventually settled in the Barbary Coast (Maghreb), with around 30,000 to 75,000 people ultimately returning to Spain. Those who avoided expulsion or who managed to return to Spain merged into the dominant culture.The last mass prosecution against Moriscos for crypto-Islamic practices took place in Granada in 1727, with most of those convicted receiving relatively light sentences. By the end of the 18th century, indigenous Islam and Morisco identity were considered to have been extinguished in Spain
Expulsion of the Moriscos - Wikipedia
Most of those expelled from what i read were to north africa. I think the group that went to the ottoman empire were the jews.
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Part 14: Mexica Standoff
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Part 14: Mexica Standoff
The Triple Alliance's first reaction to Blasco Núñez Vela's actions in Cuba was, tellingly enough, one of bewilderment, not outrage. Twelve years had passed since the signing of the Treaty of Tlatelolco, and the state of affairs it generated created an idea among the Mexica upper class (one backed by more than a decade of economic development) that their Spanish partners could be trusted to bring the products they needed (especially modern weapons and sugar) for the right price indefinitely, while any difficulties caused by "troublesome elements" (missionaries) could be smoothed over with huge bribes of precious metals and other things the Europeans wanted. The slow speed with which information traveled at the time didn't help either - distortion, and with it wild rumors, were common. Thus, Cuauhtémoc saw no reason take the situation seriously from the outset, doing nothing except dispatch a group of envoys to Santiago to assess the situation in an accurate way and figure out what was the Cuban governor's price, in case the situation was as bad as the stories said.
It was worse.
The atmosphere the diplomats were greeted with upon entering the Cuban capital, from ordinary and prominent people alike, was one that could be best described as polite hostility, a hostility that was much more overt to Santiago's small (but until then prosperous) Nahua community: many had their shops and houses trashed by furious Spaniards in the riots that followed Núñez Vela's accession, and more still were packing up what they had, in the hopes of returning to Mesoamerica before things became even worse. When the envoys complained of this state of affairs to the governor, he and his men replied that they were under direct orders from Madrid to protect Spanish merchants from any competition; when they tried to bribe them, as was so common during Narváez's tenure, Núñez Vela flew into a rage (1). In the end, the team was forced to leave Cuba within a day, under threat of arrest, while Vela sent a report detailing what they attempted to do to king Charles I (and V). The envoys did the same, as is to be expected, and their words reached their overlord first - the distance from Cuba to Tenochtitlan was considerably smaller than that of the former to Madrid, after all.
Part 14: Mexica Standoff
The Triple Alliance's first reaction to Blasco Núñez Vela's actions in Cuba was, tellingly enough, one of bewilderment, not outrage. Twelve years had passed since the signing of the Treaty of Tlatelolco, and the state of affairs it generated created an idea among the Mexica upper class (one backed by more than a decade of economic development) that their Spanish partners could be trusted to bring the products they needed (especially modern weapons and sugar) for the right price indefinitely, while any difficulties caused by "troublesome elements" (missionaries) could be smoothed over with huge bribes of precious metals and other things the Europeans wanted. The slow speed with which information traveled at the time didn't help either - distortion, and with it wild rumors, were common. Thus, Cuauhtémoc saw no reason take the situation seriously from the outset, doing nothing except dispatch a group of envoys to Santiago to assess the situation in an accurate way and figure out what was the Cuban governor's price, in case the situation was as bad as the stories said.
It was worse.
The atmosphere the diplomats were greeted with upon entering the Cuban capital, from ordinary and prominent people alike, was one that could be best described as polite hostility, a hostility that was much more overt to Santiago's small (but until then prosperous) Nahua community: many had their shops and houses trashed by furious Spaniards in the riots that followed Núñez Vela's accession, and more still were packing up what they had, in the hopes of returning to Mesoamerica before things became even worse. When the envoys complained of this state of affairs to the governor, he and his men replied that they were under direct orders from Madrid to protect Spanish merchants from any competition; when they tried to bribe them, as was so common during Narváez's tenure, Núñez Vela flew into a rage (1). In the end, the team was forced to leave Cuba within a day, under threat of arrest, while Vela sent a report detailing what they attempted to do to king Charles I (and V). The envoys did the same, as is to be expected, and their words reached their overlord first - the distance from Cuba to Tenochtitlan was considerably smaller than that of the former to Madrid, after all.
Blasco Núñez Vela.
Cuauhtémoc was, predictably, furious. By 1536 he was master of nearly all of Mesoamerica, from the distant forests of Guatemala in the south to the arid borderlands of the Chichimecas and the Purépecha Empire to the north and west - and he intended to conquer the latter for good, a feat that, if successful, would seal Tenochtitlan's dominance over what is now central Anahuac and rid it of its last remaining rival. To accomplish this, he and the rest of the Mexica government spent most of the winter laboriously mustering an army that may have numbered as many as 120.000 men, a terrifying force made up mostly of battle-hardened veterans from the tlatoani's previous campaigns. But the events in Cuba derailed everything: Núñez Vela's treatment of his diplomats, to say nothing of what was happening to the Mesoamericans who lived in Cuba, was an unforgivable slight. And so, the mighty army was sent not against Michoacán, but Veracruz, reaching its outskirts in the middle of spring, sometime in April. Siege trenches were dug, artillery put in strategic positions, and all roads leading to the city blocked. No direct assault was made, however.
Instead, the tlatoani sought to punish the Spaniards in a way that (hopefully) wouldn't alienate them permanently - though the Triple Alliance's craftsmen knew how to make crossbows and pikes by this point, their grasp on steelmaking still left much to be desired, as did their attempts to replicate gunpowder, since its ingredients were a closely guarded state secret. Thus, he ordered the arrest of thousands of Spanish merchants and missionaries on various charges, from lesser crimes to outright sedition and spying, an obvious imitation of what was happening in Cuba. He also forbade all trade between the Triple Alliance and the Spanish colonies until Madrid issued an apology for Núñez Vela's actions, hoping to strangle them economically without the human, financial and diplomatic costs of an open war, while the army on Veracruz's doorstep would serve as a sword of Damocles.
But economic warfare was a double edged sword, as those who lived under Mexica authority soon found out. The twin blows that were the cessation of commerce and blockade of Veracruz were felt in cities such as Cholula, Xallapan and Tenochtitlan itself almost immediately, the feverish activity which characterized them since long before the Nepantla Period grinding to a near halt. All these places had sizable numbers of Spanish traders at this point, and their absence was sorely felt - as were their products. While the prices of critical foodstuffs stayed in a normal level (lessening the burden on the poor), the value of imported goods, sugar especially, skyrocketed, much to the elite's dismay. The export sector also suffered, since Cuba and other Spanish colonies in the Caribbean had become an important market for cotton, precious metals, fabrics and spices grown or manufactured in Mesoamerica.
It didn't take long for smuggling to spread. The border between Spain and the Triple Alliance was much longer than it had been when the Treaty of Tlatelolco first came into effect, with both empires expanding into Central America and creating a new route through which trade could flow, even if at much smaller volumes than the main artery (Tenochtitlan to Veracruz and vice versa). Local notables and rulers in the south, Zaachila's Cocijopij chief among them, disobeyed the blockade in various degrees, and even those who were until then stalwart allies of the central government had no choice but to disregard its command as well, lest the communities they ruled turn on them. The Spanish mercenary captains were another group deeply affected by the confrontation, since many of them had families on the other side and were thus seen with suspicious eyes by their superiors. Even those who were fully settled and spoke more Nahuatl than Spanish in their daily lives were distrusted to a certain degree, in no small part due to friction between them and their equals among the Mexica, since they, among other things, had no qualms about killing their enemies in battle - a great offense in a military who sought to capture live prisoners for sacrifice, and even shaped its promotions around it (2).
A codex depicting various ranks in the old Mexica military, each depending on how many prisoners the warrior captured during his career.
As time went by and the crisis continued, the empire fell under a growing amount of stress. Prominent aristocrats were displeased by the disruption in the flow of European luxury goods, governors reported discontent among various social classes as those who made fortunes trading with the Caribbean floundered one by one and took other sectors of the economy along with them. Some in the army, tired of the standoff, called for an all out-attack against Veracruz, arguing that holding the port hostage would be better than merely threatening it, but their requests were denied: not only would it cost a great deal of gunpowder (always in short supply) to reduce its formidable fortifications, but the Triple Alliance's lack of an oceangoing navy allowed the Spanish to reinforce the city's garrison by sea without any difficulty.
But they weren't the only ones suffering, far from it. Cuba's position as an entrepot, carefully sponsored and improved during Narváez's long administration, was the bedrock of its prosperity, with goods from both Europe and the Americas traveling through its ports. Though Magellan's contact with the Tawantinsuyu in 1526 gave the island and its fellow colonies in the Antilles an alternate market for their products, their economy was still joined at the hip to Mesoamerica's, since its shores (and thus its markets) were much more accessible than those of the Andes, whose denizens and rulers in general were still skeptical of the Europeans and their motives. Núñez Vela, whose actions had caused the crisis in the first place, was pressured by people from within and outside Cuba, such as the governors of Santo Domingo and Jamaica, to open negotiations before Madrid got involved. He finally relented in June, sending an embassy to Tenochtitlan that, after weeks of talks, reopened commercial and diplomatic relations without the embarrassment that an official apology would be, since the Mexica were willing to drop that demand by this point.
It seemed as if Cuauhtémoc had won yet again, and this time without firing a single shot - at least officially. But the (mostly) friendly cooperation that existed between Spain and the Triple Alliance during the early phase of the Nepantla Period ceased to exist, never to return, and he would learn that the hard way after he redirected his attention back to the Purépecha.
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Notes:
(1) IOTL Núñez Vela straight up murdered a conquistador after a discussion (kickstarting the crisis that led to his death), so this I'd say this behavior is in character for him.
(2) This is OTL, here's a video about it.
But they weren't the only ones suffering, far from it. Cuba's position as an entrepot, carefully sponsored and improved during Narváez's long administration, was the bedrock of its prosperity, with goods from both Europe and the Americas traveling through its ports. Though Magellan's contact with the Tawantinsuyu in 1526 gave the island and its fellow colonies in the Antilles an alternate market for their products, their economy was still joined at the hip to Mesoamerica's, since its shores (and thus its markets) were much more accessible than those of the Andes, whose denizens and rulers in general were still skeptical of the Europeans and their motives. Núñez Vela, whose actions had caused the crisis in the first place, was pressured by people from within and outside Cuba, such as the governors of Santo Domingo and Jamaica, to open negotiations before Madrid got involved. He finally relented in June, sending an embassy to Tenochtitlan that, after weeks of talks, reopened commercial and diplomatic relations without the embarrassment that an official apology would be, since the Mexica were willing to drop that demand by this point.
It seemed as if Cuauhtémoc had won yet again, and this time without firing a single shot - at least officially. But the (mostly) friendly cooperation that existed between Spain and the Triple Alliance during the early phase of the Nepantla Period ceased to exist, never to return, and he would learn that the hard way after he redirected his attention back to the Purépecha.
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Notes:
(1) IOTL Núñez Vela straight up murdered a conquistador after a discussion (kickstarting the crisis that led to his death), so this I'd say this behavior is in character for him.
(2) This is OTL, here's a video about it.
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right, the relationship between spain and the aztecs was broken and nothing broken is the same. From the chapter we also saw that the Aztec economy is completely linked to the Spanish one. That many people gain from this mutual business. I wonder if it will be an internal coup that will change the Aztecs. Perhaps supported by mestizos and more liberal Aztecs.
That was an interesting video, how will the Aztec military change?
With the introduction of pack animals and carts human porters won't be needed much or at all. So a new entry will be needed.
With the introduction of pack animals and carts human porters won't be needed much or at all. So a new entry will be needed.
from what i read on the wiki they had better metallurgy control and in fact there is no record of the Aztecs ever defeating them in battle. They also learned to use horses relatively quickly. In the otl The Purépechas achieved more autonomy than the Aztecs, and their elites continued to have influence and authority over the region.
they beat all brands, are more skillful and can deal better with the Spaniards.
(Invicta) and (kings and genereals) are great history channels
It will probably behave more like an army, with the capture for sacrifices taking place after the battle. Also fight in a more organized and less individualistic way. According to the chapter they are not able to imitate the metals of the Spaniards or to obtain many firearms. So I imagine they would fight in a similar way to old world pre-firearms (13th century),
this has the advantage of greater speed and lower cost in the transport of products. The Aztec campaigns can last longer with pack animals( the Aztec campaigns were quite short, with animals these campaigns can finally last for months.). This also brings the problem of more diseases, especially carried by domestic animals (they have various diseases).
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Two of my favorite Mesoamerican ATLs updating? Did Christmas come early?
Poor Cuauhtémoc. You tried your best, buddy, you tried.
Great chapter as usual!
And so the End Times approach for the Triple Alliance. They managed to hold their sun aflight for a time, but it is falling, now. The time for a new sun is nigh.
Poor Cuauhtémoc. You tried your best, buddy, you tried.
Great chapter as usual!
A very interesting chapter to be sure, the Aztecs handled things very well I feel, but the situation is too unbalanced as of yet and they need to secure their own position more before turning their backs on Spain, I hope this doesn't lead to mass Christian Conquests.
Also, very happy that Cortez's failure stopped anyone from trying shit with the Tawantinsuyu, they're also vastly bigger, more populace and organized than any of their Northern counterparts, and with the challenges of getting to their lands, let alone invading it, they can likely better keep out undue influences.
Pretty sure this was a temporary state of affairs as eventually Tangáxuan II, was betrayed, tortured, had his body dragged around by a horse and then burned alive before his killer, Juan Ortiz de Matienzo went around slaughter village after village and either took direct control or propped up a puppet after the fact, records seem to kinda conflict.
Idle aside, I wonder if Princess Eréndira, is around and kicking?
It was Purple Phoenix Reborn, I was reading it as well when he commented on it
Also a pretty great TL
Funnily enough "Un Dios, Un Imperio, Un Rey" also got a new chapter around the same time
So it was a triple Mesoamerican update!
This is the best comment
Period
AH has peaked
Tell Ian he can close the site already
speaking of the portuguese, how is their expansion in north america?
they are almost in otl maine already. They probably reached up to the state of new york by the end of the 16th century. Control will not be strong, but there will already be Portuguese in the region.
How will the alliance between France and Portugal be?
for example portugal will provide the majority of slaves for the french colony, with the alliance being bound not only by blood but also by economy. Perhaps Portuguese attacks (through French privateers or pirates for example) the Philippines to try to have a monopoly on Chinese trade. Support the Aztecs against the Spaniards.
There is also the economic triangle of otl with slaves going to brazil and the resources of the colony to portugal that sold them, bought slaves in africa sold them in brazil and so on.
on this timeline it will probably be the portuguese who sell the slaves with france taking care of the sale of the colony's resources. But as Kurd Gossemer said, the french colonies had more freedom than the Portuguese, so it can turn into a square and not a triangle. Portugal sells slaves in Brazil to the French, buys products for its colony in Canada, takes the resources of the colony in North America and goes to Portugal. The france buys slaves and takes resources from the colony in south america and sells them in europe. With the french and portuguese selling products from the colony of otl canada to the french colony.
The trips would look something like this:
Portugal:
Portugal-> French colony-> Portuguese colony-> Portugal.
Sell slaves in the french colony, buy colonial french products for the portuguese colony, bring resources from its colony to the metropolis to sell and so on.
France:
france->french colony->france.
export of resources of the colony to france and of people from the metropole to the french colony.
Among the colonies.
Portuguese colony <-> French colony
Resource exchange.
they are almost in otl maine already. They probably reached up to the state of new york by the end of the 16th century. Control will not be strong, but there will already be Portuguese in the region.
How will the alliance between France and Portugal be?
for example portugal will provide the majority of slaves for the french colony, with the alliance being bound not only by blood but also by economy. Perhaps Portuguese attacks (through French privateers or pirates for example) the Philippines to try to have a monopoly on Chinese trade. Support the Aztecs against the Spaniards.
There is also the economic triangle of otl with slaves going to brazil and the resources of the colony to portugal that sold them, bought slaves in africa sold them in brazil and so on.
on this timeline it will probably be the portuguese who sell the slaves with france taking care of the sale of the colony's resources. But as Kurd Gossemer said, the french colonies had more freedom than the Portuguese, so it can turn into a square and not a triangle. Portugal sells slaves in Brazil to the French, buys products for its colony in Canada, takes the resources of the colony in North America and goes to Portugal. The france buys slaves and takes resources from the colony in south america and sells them in europe. With the french and portuguese selling products from the colony of otl canada to the french colony.
The trips would look something like this:
Portugal:
Portugal-> French colony-> Portuguese colony-> Portugal.
Sell slaves in the french colony, buy colonial french products for the portuguese colony, bring resources from its colony to the metropolis to sell and so on.
France:
france->french colony->france.
export of resources of the colony to france and of people from the metropole to the french colony.
Among the colonies.
Portuguese colony <-> French colony
Resource exchange.
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I wonder how the presence of Spaniards in the empire has effected Aztec schooling and the raising of children?