The Island - P&S: Louisiana, Mississippi, Beaumont/Port Arthur, TX
- Thread starter vl100butch
- Start date
That assuming Elizabeth Dole lives of course. The jury is still out on that.
To be revealed this weekend
5. Some people just plain don't get it
vl100butch
Donor
(this is simply just fun)
Some people just plain don't get it
Samedi Gras, 1987 (the Saturday before Ash Wednesday), Krewe of Endymion assembly area, Orleans Avenue next to City Park.
A joint decision was made between the state governments and localities that a limited Mardi Gras celebration would be allowed. In New Orleans, there would be weekend parades with Rex and Zulu returning to the streets on Fat Tuesday.
The Krewe of Endymion would be the first parade of that season, parading down their traditional Mid-City route. In years past, the lead marching unit was an active duty military band (either the 4th Marine Division or the 5th Mechanized). In 1987, neither were available, so the Jesuit High School Marine Corps Junior ROTC band led. This group of young men had distinguished themselves in defense of one of the early relief trains headed to Oklahoma and Nebraska. As a result, they were allowed to carry their .30 carbines slung across their backs whenever they paraded. This was well known throughout the Gulf states and a particular point of pride to New Orleans.
Of course, this would not go unchallenged by outsiders. The most colorful incident involved Major James F. Burns of Joplin, Missouri, who was part of a Missouri State Guard group performing a liaison mission. Major Burns loudly questioned the cadets about why they were allowed to carry weapons. After he was told why the cadets were under arms and who had authorized them (Gen. Barrow), Major Burns went on to make the fatal statement, "Sure, and the next thing you're going to tell me is that you have a Rabbi as well." The senior NCO instructor told him, "Sir, we certainly do have a Rabbi and an Archbishop as well." Chaplain (COL) Hannan, in civilian life and his other job, Archbishop of New Orleans, and Chaplain (CDR) Blackman, Chief Rabbi at Temple Sinai in New Orleans had come out to the assembly area to greet the participants before the parade got underway. The end result was that Major Burns was put on the next train out of New Orleans and told to stay out of Louisiana and Mississippi, in terms much stronger than described here.
A joint decision was made between the state governments and localities that a limited Mardi Gras celebration would be allowed. In New Orleans, there would be weekend parades with Rex and Zulu returning to the streets on Fat Tuesday.
The Krewe of Endymion would be the first parade of that season, parading down their traditional Mid-City route. In years past, the lead marching unit was an active duty military band (either the 4th Marine Division or the 5th Mechanized). In 1987, neither were available, so the Jesuit High School Marine Corps Junior ROTC band led. This group of young men had distinguished themselves in defense of one of the early relief trains headed to Oklahoma and Nebraska. As a result, they were allowed to carry their .30 carbines slung across their backs whenever they paraded. This was well known throughout the Gulf states and a particular point of pride to New Orleans.
Of course, this would not go unchallenged by outsiders. The most colorful incident involved Major James F. Burns of Joplin, Missouri, who was part of a Missouri State Guard group performing a liaison mission. Major Burns loudly questioned the cadets about why they were allowed to carry weapons. After he was told why the cadets were under arms and who had authorized them (Gen. Barrow), Major Burns went on to make the fatal statement, "Sure, and the next thing you're going to tell me is that you have a Rabbi as well." The senior NCO instructor told him, "Sir, we certainly do have a Rabbi and an Archbishop as well." Chaplain (COL) Hannan, in civilian life and his other job, Archbishop of New Orleans, and Chaplain (CDR) Blackman, Chief Rabbi at Temple Sinai in New Orleans had come out to the assembly area to greet the participants before the parade got underway. The end result was that Major Burns was put on the next train out of New Orleans and told to stay out of Louisiana and Mississippi, in terms much stronger than described here.
Last edited:
Definitely monitoring this
(btw, I had no idea Russel Long was Huey Long's son!!!!!!!!!)
(btw, I had no idea Russel Long was Huey Long's son!!!!!!!!!)
That assuming Elizabeth Dole lives of course. The jury is still out on that.
To be revealed this weekend
(gently scraping jaw from carpet)
vl100butch
Donor
That assuming Elizabeth Dole lives of course. The jury is still out on that.
To be revealed this weekend
will adjust to whatever you decide....
to answer the question about New Orleans....the ground zero was by the Michoud Assembly Plant out in the eastern part of the city, took out a lot of St Bernard Parish and a couple of oil refineries. New Orleans survived from the Industrial Canal through the Bywater, Marigny, Treme, French Quarter, CBD, Mid-City....
vl100butch
Donor
and Johnny White's Sports Bar never closed!!!! (but they did have a hell of a problem getting beer for a while)
vl100butch
Donor
my present Visualization of the Cosmic All is incomplete in many aspects, but I do see a call going out for 3d and 4th year NROTC cadets in the Aggie Corps...
by the end of 1984, there will be a small Marine Corps Recruit Depot in operation that will share facilities with the other services...
6. What in the world are they doing down there?
vl100butch
Donor
What in the world are they doing down there?
September 1983
September 1983
The Marines and to a somewhat lesser extent the Navy and Coast Guard weren't going to wait to set up a command facility on Avery Island. Personnel and equipment from New Orleans started moving there and began to set up infrastructure. A company of Seabees was deployed from Gulfport and one of the first actions was to set up a couple of RV parks. Additional housing on the island would be needed and this was a relatively inexpensive way to do so and provided a good cover story.
One of the first officers assigned to Avery Island was a Seabee Captain. He and even more so, his wife, were excited about the assignment as they researched the history of Avery Island. His liaison visit to Vicksburg initially stirred up a tempest in a teapot, but in the long term found still more useful assets.
As a civil engineer, he knew all about the Waterways Experiment Station (WES) and the Mississippi Valley Division, US Army Corps of Engineers but had never had the opportunity to visit. Like most people at that time, he was unaware that a supercomputing center was located there and had never heard of ARPANET much less the existence of nodes in New Orleans, Baton Rouge, Monroe, Lafayette, Ruston, Oxford, Hattiesburg, and Starkville.
On top of finding a place pretty much in the middle of nowhere with several universities worth of PhD engineers, he found all sorts of things you wouldn't immediately think you'd find at an engineering lab. WES owned several reasonably modern armored vehicles that they drove around for roadway testing. There was also a cadre of demolition experts, people who blew up stuff for a living on a daily basis.
When he called on the Division Commander, he found out that the Army had not been brought on board to what was happening in New Orleans. Fortunately, the Captain called his boss in New Orleans and got the wheels turning for another fateful E-ring meeting.
One of the first officers assigned to Avery Island was a Seabee Captain. He and even more so, his wife, were excited about the assignment as they researched the history of Avery Island. His liaison visit to Vicksburg initially stirred up a tempest in a teapot, but in the long term found still more useful assets.
As a civil engineer, he knew all about the Waterways Experiment Station (WES) and the Mississippi Valley Division, US Army Corps of Engineers but had never had the opportunity to visit. Like most people at that time, he was unaware that a supercomputing center was located there and had never heard of ARPANET much less the existence of nodes in New Orleans, Baton Rouge, Monroe, Lafayette, Ruston, Oxford, Hattiesburg, and Starkville.
On top of finding a place pretty much in the middle of nowhere with several universities worth of PhD engineers, he found all sorts of things you wouldn't immediately think you'd find at an engineering lab. WES owned several reasonably modern armored vehicles that they drove around for roadway testing. There was also a cadre of demolition experts, people who blew up stuff for a living on a daily basis.
When he called on the Division Commander, he found out that the Army had not been brought on board to what was happening in New Orleans. Fortunately, the Captain called his boss in New Orleans and got the wheels turning for another fateful E-ring meeting.
Last edited:
vl100butch
Donor
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Arpanet_logical_map,_march_1977.png
here's a 1977 logic map...not exactly sure when Vicksburg was hooked up OTL....the Information Technology Lab at ERDC wasn't cranked up until 1986, but there was data processing there earlier....
7. Part 2 - What in the world...
vl100butch
Donor
What in the world are they doing down there?
Part 2
Part 2
After one of the weekly "tank" meetings, GEN Wickham asked Gen Kelley if he could come over to his office for a couple of minutes for a cup of coffee and to talk about some things he heard from the Chief of Engineers.
After the normal pleasantries, GEN Wickham asked what was the Corps up to in Louisiana and Mississippi. Gen Kelley told him that the sea services were working on a contingency plan to maintain continuity as well as command and control for the central Gulf states, primarily Louisiana and Mississippi. When GEN Wickham asked "Why there?", Gen Kelley handed GEN Wickham a bottle of TABASCO and asked him to read the label. Kelley then began to explain about Avery Island, what was there, and exactly who Walter McIlhenny was and what sort of political connections he had.
"You mean to tell me his father was a Rough Rider, commissioned by Teddy Roosevelt himself? His uncle caught a 19 foot alligator, the biggest ever in Louisiana? And then, he lives on an island paradise with a huge underground salt mine and oil wells?" Gen Kelley answered in one word, "Yep".
Gen Kelley invited GEN Wickham down for a quick weekend visit and suggested that he have the Mississippi Valley Division Commanding General stop down at the same time. GEN Wickham asked the critical question, "What exactly are you planning to do?" The short answer was to have a command and control element in a place that would survive the worst case scenario.
"Walt McIlhenny was on Guadalcanal, he understands what a shoestring operation is," said Gen Kelley. He continued on saying that this was going to be an operation that had to use whatever was on hand and that the Army Engineers in Vicksburg were part of that.
"If this does go to Hell, who will be in charge?" asked GEN Wickham. "Bob Barrow," answered Gen Kelley, "he's from down there." GEN Wickham thought about it for a few seconds and said it made perfect sense.
After the normal pleasantries, GEN Wickham asked what was the Corps up to in Louisiana and Mississippi. Gen Kelley told him that the sea services were working on a contingency plan to maintain continuity as well as command and control for the central Gulf states, primarily Louisiana and Mississippi. When GEN Wickham asked "Why there?", Gen Kelley handed GEN Wickham a bottle of TABASCO and asked him to read the label. Kelley then began to explain about Avery Island, what was there, and exactly who Walter McIlhenny was and what sort of political connections he had.
"You mean to tell me his father was a Rough Rider, commissioned by Teddy Roosevelt himself? His uncle caught a 19 foot alligator, the biggest ever in Louisiana? And then, he lives on an island paradise with a huge underground salt mine and oil wells?" Gen Kelley answered in one word, "Yep".
Gen Kelley invited GEN Wickham down for a quick weekend visit and suggested that he have the Mississippi Valley Division Commanding General stop down at the same time. GEN Wickham asked the critical question, "What exactly are you planning to do?" The short answer was to have a command and control element in a place that would survive the worst case scenario.
"Walt McIlhenny was on Guadalcanal, he understands what a shoestring operation is," said Gen Kelley. He continued on saying that this was going to be an operation that had to use whatever was on hand and that the Army Engineers in Vicksburg were part of that.
"If this does go to Hell, who will be in charge?" asked GEN Wickham. "Bob Barrow," answered Gen Kelley, "he's from down there." GEN Wickham thought about it for a few seconds and said it made perfect sense.
8. Information
vl100butch
Donor
this is for information.....
forces available for airlift in May 1984 (if airlift can be found and sent)
Number 3 Battery, Louisiana State Guard (2ea. M-102 105mm...used for salutes and left behind when 1/141 Field Artillery was mobilized) one gun is named "Dominique" the other is "Renalto" (one clue, Charles Boyer played Dominique in the movie...and he was real)
Vicksburg Armored Engineers - 1 M-56 Scorpion and 2 Walker Bulldogs manned by personnel from the Waterways Experiment Station
2ea M-42 "Dusters" twin 40mm tracked AA guns....crews from all over...
4 ea quad .50 machine guns on various military trucks....
Mortar Platoon, 9 ea WW2 type 60mm mortars manned by New Orleans area Vietnamese (these guys can shoot)....each carried on a M-151 and trailer....
Command and control support....USMC jeep monunted commo teams...4 of the Navajo code talkers are available but are not to get anywhere close to the front line...(remember, when the Marine mafia gets moving, they get moving)
a company's worth of infantry...scraped up platoons of Army and Marines from various places in the area....each platoon has a 106mm recoilless on a jeep....
all are armed with WW2 weapons....Garands, Carbines, grease guns....
APOD - Chennault Airport, Lake Charles, LA...lots of fuel
wheels can be there within 18 hours of notification, tracks in 36 hours....
forces available for airlift in May 1984 (if airlift can be found and sent)
Number 3 Battery, Louisiana State Guard (2ea. M-102 105mm...used for salutes and left behind when 1/141 Field Artillery was mobilized) one gun is named "Dominique" the other is "Renalto" (one clue, Charles Boyer played Dominique in the movie...and he was real)
Vicksburg Armored Engineers - 1 M-56 Scorpion and 2 Walker Bulldogs manned by personnel from the Waterways Experiment Station
2ea M-42 "Dusters" twin 40mm tracked AA guns....crews from all over...
4 ea quad .50 machine guns on various military trucks....
Mortar Platoon, 9 ea WW2 type 60mm mortars manned by New Orleans area Vietnamese (these guys can shoot)....each carried on a M-151 and trailer....
Command and control support....USMC jeep monunted commo teams...4 of the Navajo code talkers are available but are not to get anywhere close to the front line...(remember, when the Marine mafia gets moving, they get moving)
a company's worth of infantry...scraped up platoons of Army and Marines from various places in the area....each platoon has a 106mm recoilless on a jeep....
all are armed with WW2 weapons....Garands, Carbines, grease guns....
APOD - Chennault Airport, Lake Charles, LA...lots of fuel
wheels can be there within 18 hours of notification, tracks in 36 hours....
9. Unbelivable
vl100butch
Donor
Unbelivable
October 1983
October 1983
GEN Wickham's trip to Avery Island was disguised around a visit to Fort Polk with a stop at Jackson Barracks (the former Army post in New Orleans used as Headquarters for the Louisiana National Guard). To say he was amazed was to put it mildly and realized that not only the Avery Island salt mine, but all the salt mines in south Louisiana were assets. Over coffee on a porch with an amazing view, the four generals (Wickham, Kelley, McIlhenny, and the Mississippi Valley Division CG) discussed ideas of setting up for survival.
They realized that this location was in the public eye and assigning active duty military would rapidly bring more attention to the buildup on the island. Not only would command and control be required, but institutional knowledge to rebuild. The idea of calling up some retirees and putting together a list of others to be called up seemed to be an obvious solution after the suggestion was made.
(another future snippet--you'll meet the not-so-young-anymore Captain's parents later--this excerpt will NOT be from a military staff journal)
They realized that this location was in the public eye and assigning active duty military would rapidly bring more attention to the buildup on the island. Not only would command and control be required, but institutional knowledge to rebuild. The idea of calling up some retirees and putting together a list of others to be called up seemed to be an obvious solution after the suggestion was made.
(another future snippet--you'll meet the not-so-young-anymore Captain's parents later--this excerpt will NOT be from a military staff journal)
Coming Home
November 5, 1985
November 5, 1985
The train was a few minutes late coming into Laurel when the green-eyed girl and her mother got on the train to New Orleans. They were going down to for the girl to interview for a job as an operating room nurse and to hopefully then find a place for her to live. The old Pullman commuter railcars used for this service had seen better days and they were crowded.
The only place they could find to sit was in a spot where the seats faced each other. The spots closest to the window were taken up by a sleeping soldier wearing well worn BDUs with his cap over his eyes. What looked to be the soldier's worldly possessions were in a duffel bag under his legs and an ALICE pack on the other seat. As the train started moving, the solider stirred and quietly asked where was the train and how much further to New Orleans.
The girl answered "Laurel and about three hours." The soldier mumbled thank you and went back to sleep. When the train left Hattiesburg, the soldier woke up and started to look around. He was amazed at the undamaged countryside and people getting on with the normal business of living. The soldier finally noticed the green-eyed girl and her mother and said hello. The girl asked the solider where he was going and he said, "Home." She asked where was home and he told her, "New Orleans, actually Belle Chasse on the Westbank, but most people have never heard of it." TO BE CONTINUED
The only place they could find to sit was in a spot where the seats faced each other. The spots closest to the window were taken up by a sleeping soldier wearing well worn BDUs with his cap over his eyes. What looked to be the soldier's worldly possessions were in a duffel bag under his legs and an ALICE pack on the other seat. As the train started moving, the solider stirred and quietly asked where was the train and how much further to New Orleans.
The girl answered "Laurel and about three hours." The soldier mumbled thank you and went back to sleep. When the train left Hattiesburg, the soldier woke up and started to look around. He was amazed at the undamaged countryside and people getting on with the normal business of living. The soldier finally noticed the green-eyed girl and her mother and said hello. The girl asked the solider where he was going and he said, "Home." She asked where was home and he told her, "New Orleans, actually Belle Chasse on the Westbank, but most people have never heard of it." TO BE CONTINUED
Last edited:
Dirk_Pitt
Banned
From where is this weary soldier returning home from?
Also the situation seems a bit better than it should be. Even by Nov. '85 the rail lines should still be a crapshoot. The rail lines themselves shouldn't be much of a problem but the rail heads, which would naturally be in irradiated areas, would be a pain to rebuild. That was the general consensus in the main story thread.
But maybe I'm wrong here.
Also the situation seems a bit better than it should be. Even by Nov. '85 the rail lines should still be a crapshoot. The rail lines themselves shouldn't be much of a problem but the rail heads, which would naturally be in irradiated areas, would be a pain to rebuild. That was the general consensus in the main story thread.
But maybe I'm wrong here.
vl100butch
Donor
I really need to do a map, then things will be a lot clearer....small towns, lots of agriculture were undamaged and a LOT of railroads were untouched.... clearing and restoring the tracks through Jackson and Meridian was relatively simple compared to some places...
the line I'm using here is the route of the Crescent, which took some damage south of Birmingham...from Birmingham NORTH and EAST....that's a totally different story...
what I figure is operational by mid 1984....
East-west:
Ruston, LA through Monroe, Vicksburg, MS, to west of Meridian (working to get tracks cleared and restored to the North-South Line at Meridian)
New Orleans to Beaumont: two lines...one through Houma and Lafayette, the second through Baton Rouge and Opelausas
North-South:
Southhaven, MS (or somewhere close to there) - New Orleans
south of Birmingham - New Orleans
the 1996 Illinois Central Map shows two north-south lines in Mississippi...
What's hosed...
Alexandria, LA is the key location in central Louisiana...once one of the lines there is repaired, you can get trains to the outskirts of Shreveport...
West and north of Beaumont, TX
North of De Ridder, LA (Fort Polk)
Pass Christian, MS east....
as far as the soldier is concerned, he survived the north shoulder of the Fulda Gap and had an easier time getting home than his great-great-grandfather did from Richmond in 1865...he could get rides on the odd military vehicle and maybe an airplane...once he got to Tuscaloosa, he could get on a train...
but by the end of 1984, there is enough of the Navy left (including Military Sealift Command, and NSTS) to do repatraition of what's left of US Forces in Europe.....particularly once a central government is firmly in place...there is a LOT of work those servicepeople can be doing at home...and a couple of division's worth of troops will ensure that a lot of people with ideas behave themselves...
figure out of around a million servicepeople in place when the shooting started around 100,000 made it home....
Last edited:
Actually, it was discussed in the original, in flatwater and in land of sad songs.
Right now, at least as of May 29, 1984 the gathering order is still being organized. Most of the remaining U.S. Navy is making their way back to Washington State. There have some repatriations to come in summer '84 into fall into '85.
As far as the European theatre a lot of the troops were separated. Many stayed settled or unfortunately died where they were. P&S prime talks about this at the end .
Flatwater has characters still in Europe helping with the remnant forces
Right now, at least as of May 29, 1984 the gathering order is still being organized. Most of the remaining U.S. Navy is making their way back to Washington State. There have some repatriations to come in summer '84 into fall into '85.
As far as the European theatre a lot of the troops were separated. Many stayed settled or unfortunately died where they were. P&S prime talks about this at the end .
Flatwater has characters still in Europe helping with the remnant forces
vl100butch
Donor
http://www.epa.gov/rpdweb00/docs/er...nse-to-nuclear-detonation-2-edition-final.pdf
found this today, don't know if it's been posted...although they use a 10KT as their max, there is still interesting information
found this today, don't know if it's been posted...although they use a 10KT as their max, there is still interesting information