Maybe, given in the last Germany chapter the Israelis seemed to have done the Six-Day War 8 years early.
The Iron Eagle - The History of the Cold War
- Thread starter Kaiser of Brazil
- Start date
Going by the poll, it's likely that Speer is going to do some sort of false flag attack to get rid of Hess and Goebbels.
I see the US and the allies start working on better tanks and armor doctrine after the ural war.
They’ve already learned one thing: never engage in a tank battle with the Germans without complete air superiority. Now they just need to make tanks that can match the Germans.
Hey it can be either of those, depends if I am feeling particularly murderous towards Europeans.
Did you know one of Goebbels's main divergences in his early days with Hitler was that he wanted to reclaim South Tyrol and did not see Italy as an ally?
Yeah I agree. And I mostly voted for Goebbels because I’m more interested in seeing how a Nazi cultural revolution (which I’m still convinced is gonna happen if he wins) would look like compared to what path Speer would take Germany, even if he’s probably better for the country in the long run. Granted if Goebbels doesn’t consider the Italians as allies that adds a whole new layer to what happens if he takes power.
I'm not sure if Mao's reaction to this very odd Deja vu would be of complete horror that actually saves millions of Chinese, or it would be as if he was being challenged and ends up doubling down on it.
Could be both, or maybe there’s a middle ground where Mao does a smaller scale version if the carnage in Germany is bad enough to make him do that.
Yeah right, they need to suffer from the effects of decades of Vodoo economics and MFEO bills. Either the Reich pays or its people suffer or both.
Finally the SS and RHSA begin to make sense.
Noooo... Resurrect the Mongolian People's Republic.
So it was Mongolia's destiny to be a mere province. Not even an autonomous region like Tibet or even Inner Mongolia? Or there is no concept of Autonomous region in this PRC?
The operation doesn't seem like a bad move. If I were Mao and likely facing the Heer, an existential threat which is advancing fast towards you. You would want to keep up a buffer.
But how can that operation burn bridges with the Americans given the events in Korea? The relationship can be said to be just short of war.
With decreasing plausibility from highly plausible to ASB
A coup in Berlin/Germania or a power struggle that destabilizes the situation for the Germans in the Home Front.
A massive rebellion in occupied territories deep behind enemy lines.
Darnand France collapses as Free France invades Algeria.
France somehow manages to switch sides.
Russian nuke shows the Germans sunshines in 3D rather than boring old 2D painting like form from a distance.
MFEO bills lead to increase in Taxes, that leads to people losing confidence in the Fuhrer and disastrous consequences for the Reich.
Mao decides to join the Russians in bashing the Nazis and the prophecy of Asiatic Hordes come true and the Germans are driven out of Russia clinging to their helicopters only to find that the PLA has reached Germania
Im mostly hoping Goebbels pull the Cultural Revolution in Germany and then Speer comes in later on to be the Deng figure as unlikely that is
yea i agree that would be the most interesting szenario, i wonder how such a culture would look like long term where germany and its sphere is simply not part of the west anymore
Don't be mistaken, there is nothing democratic in Speer. He would not be that much of a reformist either. Sure, his government will want to look "technocratic" but this man is one of the main creators of a slave system meant to work millions to death.
Deng Xiaoping decentralized the government and rebuilt a bureaucracy that was shattered by the Cultural Revolution. He did allow for some Market openings too but even many conservatives went along with his reforms.
Wegener was more similar to Deng in the sense of strengthening the party structure and rationalizing a chaotic bureaucracy, decentralizing the power to local Gauleiters while weakening the figure of a single centralized Führer. And now he is dead after betting his chips on a failed war.
Speer represents Centralization and the return of the figure of the powerful Führer. He wants a powerful ministry with the support of the ruling economical class to strengthen German industry and economy. He wants a strong figure in the Bismarckian ideals, a true successor to Hitler instead of a second place follower like Hess.
He is NOT Deng Xiaoping or even close to it. A man who was completely power-hungry, centralizing everything around his ministry and pushing arrogantly to have his way while stealing the credit for the ideas of others is not the same as Deng.
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This is an important point. The myth of the Speer the 'efficient reformist technocrat' is ever enduring, and inaccurate.
His personality was incredibly self-aggrandising and supercilious, which is one of the reason he clashed with the Gauleiters. He habitually ran roughshood over other authorities that got in the way of his quest for power and fame, invoking his connection to Hitler, as for example the municipal government of Berlin, the finance ministry and rival architects learned. Contrary to his reputation for opposing 'wasteful wonderweapons', he was a supporter of them since they made for good propaganda.
He was also a rather difficult boss to work for as armaments minister since while he delegated a lot of work, he refused to share any credit. Hans Kehrl, one of the top managers of the ministry, complained about his tendency to play off subordinates against each other. Once he asked his boss for an overview of the political and military situation, and Speer threw a fit.
Contrary to his post-war claims of having been in a life or death struggle with Himmler and the SS, his relationship with both was cozy for the most part, and went back to the mid-30s. He gushed about the horrible slave factory Kammler built for him. One of his top men in the armaments ministry was Karl-Otto Saur, a thug known for his brutality.
A Führer Speer would rule in a more 'traditional' and calculating fashion, relying on his power base among industrialists, the armaments bureaucracy and the civil service. But it would nonetheless continue to be a brutal, repressive regime, except the guy on top isn't an unhinged quack.
His personality was incredibly self-aggrandising and supercilious, which is one of the reason he clashed with the Gauleiters. He habitually ran roughshood over other authorities that got in the way of his quest for power and fame, invoking his connection to Hitler, as for example the municipal government of Berlin, the finance ministry and rival architects learned. Contrary to his reputation for opposing 'wasteful wonderweapons', he was a supporter of them since they made for good propaganda.
He was also a rather difficult boss to work for as armaments minister since while he delegated a lot of work, he refused to share any credit. Hans Kehrl, one of the top managers of the ministry, complained about his tendency to play off subordinates against each other. Once he asked his boss for an overview of the political and military situation, and Speer threw a fit.
Contrary to his post-war claims of having been in a life or death struggle with Himmler and the SS, his relationship with both was cozy for the most part, and went back to the mid-30s. He gushed about the horrible slave factory Kammler built for him. One of his top men in the armaments ministry was Karl-Otto Saur, a thug known for his brutality.
A Führer Speer would rule in a more 'traditional' and calculating fashion, relying on his power base among industrialists, the armaments bureaucracy and the civil service. But it would nonetheless continue to be a brutal, repressive regime, except the guy on top isn't an unhinged quack.
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Well then the Deng Xiaoping comparisons are still reasonably on point.
Yea i dont know if i worded it wrong but i am specifically hoping that he is NOT shown that way (democratic reformer) because it is completely unreasonable to assume any Nazi after a victorious WW2 would want to become democratic or "wholesome". With reforms I was also not referring to Dengist reforms particulary or the inner workings of China but more to the overall Role of a Nazi Germany in the World. I have seen many fics where either German had some gradniouse bang which lead to a violent color revolution (out of thin air) or a final Invasion of the Allies OR a Germany where the Leaders suddenly ditch their whole worldview and reform into "wholesome dengist democratic reform Germany" and i think both szenarios are overused and atleast most of the times not very realistic.
Now i agree also that Speer is often mischaracterized, stuff like TNO popularized the democratic Speer myth in recent years imo but i also think people tend to overcorrect him into some madman in disguise which also seems wrong to me.
I still wonder how a NS-Cultural Revolution would look like or how Speers Model of Germany would play out, i think it would also be interesting if both sort of happen. The big Question for me would be the economy and here it seems like Speers style of government would probably win out, altho i am not sure what Göbbels would do. Wasnt he aligned with the "left" wing of the party atleast in the beginning ?