The Iron Eagle: An Adolf Hitler Presidency
- Thread starter IntellectuallyHonestRhino
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I never claimed he would be or not the leader of Germany.
I do agree that he was a better organizer than being a charismatic face of a movement. In Munich, he's speaking to party members in a small meeting, not conducting a rally.
Okay I'll admit it guys, Himmler will not become Chancellor. Any guesses who will? And Himmler may or may not be in government. And it doesn't necessarily have to be someone half crazy
. For all everyone knows, Ludwig Kaas could become Chancellor.Also, do people like the "All in the Family" Posts?
And @joelee77, indeed nobody expects the Spanish inquisition
.P.S. Also, I will not post anything on TTL/thread until my update on Friday. I will of course browse through and like comments, but not posting new posts until my Friday update is the best way to ensure I don't fall into unintentionally spamming.
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Ludwig Kaas (*23 May 1881 – 15 April 1952†) was a German Roman Catholic priest and politician during the Weimar Republic.
Leader of centrum Party with excellent connection to the Vatican
The centrum Party was one of biggest political Party in Weimar Republic, analog to today CDU
What for Twist: A priest as Chancellor
Ludwig Kaas (*23 May 1881 – 15 April 1952†) was a German Roman Catholic priest and politician during the Weimar Republic.
Leader of centrum Party with excellent connection to the Vatican
The centrum Party was one of biggest political Party in Weimar Republic, analog to today CDU
What for Twist: A priest as Chancellor
You sir, from essentially every post you have made on this TL, have demonstrated an extensive knowledge of a broad range of history. I am very impressed. (In general I love all the knowledge and ideas the whole audience is bringing. Makes the whole process super enjoyable.)
Would you say the Centre party is more like the CDU or the CSU? Since Bavaria is a very Catholic region in nature and the Centre party represented German Catholic interests primarily. Or since the CSU is a national party like the Centre party was, they are more similar in that sense. I definitely agree that the Centre party is not the predecessor to the SPD.
I promised not to make new posts in order to not get into spam, but this comment I had to respond to. I will respond to any other comment on Friday (gotta be disciplined).
Also every major party in OTL Weimar Germany throughout the 20's and 30's will appear.
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So an updated list of Hitler's potential cronies.
- William H. Murray
- Charles Coughlin
- Henry Ford
- William Dudley Pelley
- George Van Horn Moseley
- Orville Hubbard
Last post until Friday for I want to stay true to my word but this I think I should answer now. The reason why it is slow for I need to have the ideology of Hitlerism completely develop. The slower style suits this. I appreciate the constructive criticism and I always want that, but I personally feel that if I skip over certain things it will make less sense, be less developed, and overall, less enjoyable. That's just my opinion however. I don't think the WW1 experience will be that long really, but the slow and detailed process will in the end be worth it imo. But once again, thanks for the advice. I want everyone to know they can give me constructive criticism without me getting offended. I like constructive criticism, it shows the thought and time people put in to help my TL
.The Friday update will be bigger and cover more though.
To be fair to the author, this is no where near as slow as was the case with the infamous story regarding WWII Finland, where (seemingly) hundreds on hundreds of pages were dedicated to every finite detail preparing for the Winter War, without ever actually getting to the Winter War; that is, last I remember it was nowhere near that. Honest Rhino as far as I can see is walking that perfectly fine line between being properly prepared and being overly prepared, providing enough explanation for plausibility without making most of the audience bleary eyed, and I give him props for doing so successfully.
In large part the Center Party evolved into the modern CDU/CSU after WWII which has a similar ideology (although far less Catholic), although technically the Center Party still exists as a very minor party in modern Germany.
What about Gerald L.K. Smith? He was a Protestant minister, associate of Charles Coughlin, hardcore anti-Semite, and early Holocaust denier. His legacy is a 20 meter tall statue of Jesus he commissioned in rural Arkansas.
The Centre isn't the direct predecessor of either but the indirect predecessor of both. The big change in the reshuffle of political parties after WW2 was the end of political separation between Catholics and protestants on the centre-right. CDU and also CSU were explicitly founded to bring together members of both denominations whereas the Centre had been Catholics only. However, because West Germany was overwhelmingly Catholic (not only Bavaria, which by the way also has some majority protestant areas), it was Catholics who dominated both CDU and CSU. So you had many ex-Centrists in the new parties, but also members of the other defunct right-wing parties (DNVP, DVP and DDP/DStP, and also many former NSDAP members). But with the majority of the members being Catholic, and CDU even adopting the colour of the Centre (black) it's not surprising that many people see them as direct successors.
Another post-war change was about economic policy. The Centre had been a Catholic catch-all party with its economic policies ranging from unequivocal socialism to staunch conservatism. After the war the CDU at first embraced Christian socialism, but decided to abandon it in the 50s in favour of Ludwig Erhard's famous social market economy. The CSU is to this date sometimes called "bleeding-heart socialists" because they care more about the welfare state than you would expect from a conservative party. So when it comes to the economy, I'd say the CSU is closer to the Centre than the CDU is, because they retained elements that were characteristical of the old left-wing Centrists. Or to use Anglo vocabulary, CSU are Red Tories and CDU are Blue Tories.
Birth of an Ideology
A Warm Sumner Day (1907):
After a few weeks of study and course work, the big day had come. Circled on Adolph's calendar was the special event in which Professor William Graham Sumner of Yale, the first Sociology Professor in America, came for a lecture. Hitler could not wait to meet the man whose theories were beginning to change social understanding in its entirety.
Sumner discussed the major aspects of his work on Sociology, from folkways and social mores, to ethnocentrism and cultural diffusion. Adolph hungrily took down all the notes, fascinated by it's implications in history. He discovered all the major connections between societal frames and connected them with the rise and fall of societies as he jotted down his notes. However, as Sumner's illness impacted his ability to make a lengthy lecture, he could merely go over the basics. He apologized, suggested certain books, then lied down, close to collapse.
As most of the students walked away, many disappointed, Adolph walked towards Professor Sumner. He simultaneously excitedly and cautiously went towards the Professor, attempting conversation without intrusion. With great care, Adolph attentively asked, "Excuse me Professor, but are you doing well?" "I'm afraid not. I have had bad health since the decade before the century's end, and life has been quite difficult since. What is your name, young sir?". "Hitler, sir. Adolph Hitler." replied Adolph. "A German, aren't you? You're peoples are quite obedient ones." remarked Professor Sumner. "Well, I hope to adopt the industriousness and fitness of the American nation. I was in fact born in a town called Hancock in nearby Comal County, but I have lived in San Antonio for the past four years". "So you are in the process of cultural diffusion aren't you?" "I guess so sir" Adolph replied with a friendly laugh. "But seriously, that is what you are doing. You are assimilating into the American culture. But your Germanic heritage will make you different than Washington and Lincoln." "How so sir?" replied Adolph?
After a deliberate few seconds of intense thought and internal analysis, Professor Sumner replied, "because the cultural mores and folklore customs of the Englishman, such as the ancestors of Washington and Lincoln, have Americanized, their Americanization combines with that of Anglo culture, while your and your descendants Americanization will be that of a Germanic bent".
Intrigued, Adolph asked, "so does the distinctiveness of different peoples and races comes from their distinct social mores and societal customs?". "Yes. Their differing values is what truly separates them. For example, an Italian enjoys celebration and relaxation, and sees no problem with his siesta. To the German, that is a sign of laziness and ineptitude. The same actions and behaviors cause contradicting responses, leading to mutual distrust and eventually disdain."
Hitler was fascinated by the ideas being brought inside his impressionable mind. Many historians conclude that while Hitler always had the mild bigotry of his days, there was a chance that with his impressionable and intellectual mind he could have grown up to be a promoter of social harmony. However, historians point to Hitler's Presidential Diary and bestseller, My Struggle for the American People, the point of no return was when Adolph asked a certain question whose response would firmly plant the seed of his ideology's garden.
"Is that why the American and Mexican races could not live in peace with each other over the frontier?".
Professor Sumner was stunned by the question. Finally, a student of his, even much more a new one, had cracked the code of his understanding of the deep perils of ethnocentrism.
"Yes, do to differing social values and customs, the disdain easily turns into conflict over resources. Because the American and Mexican nations saw each other as aliens settling on their rightful national property, war was the only proper conclusion".
"And is the cultural divide why the Mexican government demanded that Steve Austin adopt the Spanish language and convert to Roman Catholicism?"
"Tongue and Creed provide the essential base for culture to evolve and specialize."
"And isn't it fair to point to the stunning victory of the American nation over the Mexican nation as a sign of the superiority of the American race?"
"That is certainly a fair conclusion. There is no other possible explanation greater than that to explain all the micro reasons for the American victory, as well as the scale of victory. As the English defeated the Spanish Armada, so did the American nation defeat the Mexican."
Now it was Hitler's turn to be stunned. While still germinating in his mind, already the concept of the nation-state and it's relationship with Race, Creed, Tongue and the other was forming in his mind.
"Now Adolph- it's Adolph right? (Hitler nodded) I am not feeling quite well. Could you take me to a hotel? I have the finances available, from transportation to boarding."
"I definitely could sir, but may I suggest another, perhaps far superior alternative?"
A bit annoyed by the slightly disobedient response but still mightily curious by his new pupil's response, Sumner demandingly inquired, "What is this superior option?".
After a slight lump in his throat, Adolph responded, "Sir, my family has a home in this city. It is quite comfortable, and you would not be charged a penny for anything. My brothers work for it's maintenance, and my sisters care for it. There is a guestroom where my deceased mother used to sleep, and I would be honored if you boarded there sir."
Deeply moved by his new mentee's kindness, he responded merrily with, "I am touched by your generosity Mr. Hitler and gladly accept".
Hitler responded with a wide grin, helping the Professor pack his possessions and brought them to a local carriage, where he brought the Professor to his family home. After discussing the situation with his siblings in a mix of German and English, Paula Hitler, Adolph's 11 year old sister cutely stated, "Welcome to your new home, Mister Sumner."
Professor Sumner smiled. He was happy to be in good company. He lived in the Hitler household till his death in 1910, and for those years he frequently met Hitler when he came back to the house. For the next three years, along with Hitler's serial meetings with Professor Turner in his office and with Professor (now retired) Sumner in the Hitler household.
That evening, Adolph wrote in his diary, "I am seeing the patterns of the irrefutable importance of nationhood and how competing nation states will always find sport and rivalry between each other at best. I am also convinced that society requires an identity, or it will collapse."
(The Alamo would serve as a divine concept for Hitler and play a crucial role in the forming of Hitlerism. His visit of the site in 1908 would be of monumental importance to his ideological evolution and mindset.)
(Pages 4-5 of Hitler's entry for his Senior year Art Competition, A Visual Examination of the Different Races through the Tales of Terrance Towney, 1911. He used a jolly English traveler as his main character.)
After a few weeks of study and course work, the big day had come. Circled on Adolph's calendar was the special event in which Professor William Graham Sumner of Yale, the first Sociology Professor in America, came for a lecture. Hitler could not wait to meet the man whose theories were beginning to change social understanding in its entirety.
Sumner discussed the major aspects of his work on Sociology, from folkways and social mores, to ethnocentrism and cultural diffusion. Adolph hungrily took down all the notes, fascinated by it's implications in history. He discovered all the major connections between societal frames and connected them with the rise and fall of societies as he jotted down his notes. However, as Sumner's illness impacted his ability to make a lengthy lecture, he could merely go over the basics. He apologized, suggested certain books, then lied down, close to collapse.
As most of the students walked away, many disappointed, Adolph walked towards Professor Sumner. He simultaneously excitedly and cautiously went towards the Professor, attempting conversation without intrusion. With great care, Adolph attentively asked, "Excuse me Professor, but are you doing well?" "I'm afraid not. I have had bad health since the decade before the century's end, and life has been quite difficult since. What is your name, young sir?". "Hitler, sir. Adolph Hitler." replied Adolph. "A German, aren't you? You're peoples are quite obedient ones." remarked Professor Sumner. "Well, I hope to adopt the industriousness and fitness of the American nation. I was in fact born in a town called Hancock in nearby Comal County, but I have lived in San Antonio for the past four years". "So you are in the process of cultural diffusion aren't you?" "I guess so sir" Adolph replied with a friendly laugh. "But seriously, that is what you are doing. You are assimilating into the American culture. But your Germanic heritage will make you different than Washington and Lincoln." "How so sir?" replied Adolph?
After a deliberate few seconds of intense thought and internal analysis, Professor Sumner replied, "because the cultural mores and folklore customs of the Englishman, such as the ancestors of Washington and Lincoln, have Americanized, their Americanization combines with that of Anglo culture, while your and your descendants Americanization will be that of a Germanic bent".
Intrigued, Adolph asked, "so does the distinctiveness of different peoples and races comes from their distinct social mores and societal customs?". "Yes. Their differing values is what truly separates them. For example, an Italian enjoys celebration and relaxation, and sees no problem with his siesta. To the German, that is a sign of laziness and ineptitude. The same actions and behaviors cause contradicting responses, leading to mutual distrust and eventually disdain."
Hitler was fascinated by the ideas being brought inside his impressionable mind. Many historians conclude that while Hitler always had the mild bigotry of his days, there was a chance that with his impressionable and intellectual mind he could have grown up to be a promoter of social harmony. However, historians point to Hitler's Presidential Diary and bestseller, My Struggle for the American People, the point of no return was when Adolph asked a certain question whose response would firmly plant the seed of his ideology's garden.
"Is that why the American and Mexican races could not live in peace with each other over the frontier?".
Professor Sumner was stunned by the question. Finally, a student of his, even much more a new one, had cracked the code of his understanding of the deep perils of ethnocentrism.
"Yes, do to differing social values and customs, the disdain easily turns into conflict over resources. Because the American and Mexican nations saw each other as aliens settling on their rightful national property, war was the only proper conclusion".
"And is the cultural divide why the Mexican government demanded that Steve Austin adopt the Spanish language and convert to Roman Catholicism?"
"Tongue and Creed provide the essential base for culture to evolve and specialize."
"And isn't it fair to point to the stunning victory of the American nation over the Mexican nation as a sign of the superiority of the American race?"
"That is certainly a fair conclusion. There is no other possible explanation greater than that to explain all the micro reasons for the American victory, as well as the scale of victory. As the English defeated the Spanish Armada, so did the American nation defeat the Mexican."
Now it was Hitler's turn to be stunned. While still germinating in his mind, already the concept of the nation-state and it's relationship with Race, Creed, Tongue and the other was forming in his mind.
"Now Adolph- it's Adolph right? (Hitler nodded) I am not feeling quite well. Could you take me to a hotel? I have the finances available, from transportation to boarding."
"I definitely could sir, but may I suggest another, perhaps far superior alternative?"
A bit annoyed by the slightly disobedient response but still mightily curious by his new pupil's response, Sumner demandingly inquired, "What is this superior option?".
After a slight lump in his throat, Adolph responded, "Sir, my family has a home in this city. It is quite comfortable, and you would not be charged a penny for anything. My brothers work for it's maintenance, and my sisters care for it. There is a guestroom where my deceased mother used to sleep, and I would be honored if you boarded there sir."
Deeply moved by his new mentee's kindness, he responded merrily with, "I am touched by your generosity Mr. Hitler and gladly accept".
Hitler responded with a wide grin, helping the Professor pack his possessions and brought them to a local carriage, where he brought the Professor to his family home. After discussing the situation with his siblings in a mix of German and English, Paula Hitler, Adolph's 11 year old sister cutely stated, "Welcome to your new home, Mister Sumner."
Professor Sumner smiled. He was happy to be in good company. He lived in the Hitler household till his death in 1910, and for those years he frequently met Hitler when he came back to the house. For the next three years, along with Hitler's serial meetings with Professor Turner in his office and with Professor (now retired) Sumner in the Hitler household.
That evening, Adolph wrote in his diary, "I am seeing the patterns of the irrefutable importance of nationhood and how competing nation states will always find sport and rivalry between each other at best. I am also convinced that society requires an identity, or it will collapse."
(The Alamo would serve as a divine concept for Hitler and play a crucial role in the forming of Hitlerism. His visit of the site in 1908 would be of monumental importance to his ideological evolution and mindset.)
(Pages 4-5 of Hitler's entry for his Senior year Art Competition, A Visual Examination of the Different Races through the Tales of Terrance Towney, 1911. He used a jolly English traveler as his main character.)
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Very interesting. I have read more about modern German politics as of recently, and this greatly helps bring context to the CDU-CSU coalition (the Red-Blue Tory analogy greatly helps).
One correction. I am almost 100% sure that Protestants and Catholics were around equal in population, with Protestants eking out in size. Did you just mean that there were more Catholic Chancellors? Adenauer and Kohl were both Catholic, so I see what you mean there.
I will look him up. Was he the guy associated with Huey Long? I barely know him.
Some of these people will be prominent ITTL, and some will be barely mentioned if at all.
Shall they be friend, foe, or neither? That is the question.
Thoughts on the latest update?
Btw, for the curious minded,
Next few updates:
1) The Romanian Revolution (hope you enjoy this one @Blebea Cezar-Iulian)
2) The 1908 election (elections will play a big role ITTL)
3) Adolph and the Alamo (Here we will truly see the Texan side of Hitler)
Btw, for the curious minded,
Next few updates:
1) The Romanian Revolution (hope you enjoy this one @Blebea Cezar-Iulian)
2) The 1908 election (elections will play a big role ITTL)
3) Adolph and the Alamo (Here we will truly see the Texan side of Hitler)
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