"The Iron Duke and the Star-Spangled Banner"

Hello! I've been lurking here for... over a year now, but had resolved not to post anything until I had something to contribute. Or, at least, something to contribute that wasn't ridiculously guided and with a pre-determined outcome - though I suppose I might do one of those for fun, at some point (Venetian Republic wank, anyone)? Having not been able to find an introductions or welcome thread - possibly because I'm stupid - I've thought that this was as good a first post as any.

I've come up with several future-histories before, and played around with alternative histories, but this will be my first attempt to do one properly, for major 'public consumption'. However, there is the caveat that I'm also presently finishing my second degree this year; and so updates and continuations are likely to be sporadic - I really shouldn't be spending time on this at all, at the moment, but the procrastination instinct is strong, and I have my time-wasting skills honed to an art.

I will try to avoid this being a 'wank' for anything in particular, as I simply came up with the point of divergence earlier this evening during a time of inaction. This first post(s), in particular, will most likely look like Wellesleywank, but please do persevere, as this impression should hopefully be averted in subsequent updates. I will, however, see where it goes from here: I have a few ideas in mind, but I'm very much open to comment, criticism, and suggestions. My apologies if this has been done before – I haven’t exhaustively searched the boards – but I think I may well be taking it in a different direction from previous efforts anyhow, and my thoughts on possibilities - which are all mutable at the moment - extent up to the mid-20th century.

I make no claims for its absolute plausibility, being more in the line of a story than an attempt at serious analysis, though the ‘laws of reality’ will be obeyed throughout. Our point of divergence is a relatively small one, and takes place almost entirely inside the mind of Arthur Wellesley, 1st Duke of Wellington, with a slightly different character interpretation; both on my part and on that of his contemporaries. Just a few little tweaks, here and there, to individuals’ minds…

With that, I give you:


”The Iron Duke and the Star-Spangled Banner”
Part I: The Duke Diverges

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“The idea which has presented itself to our minds is that you should be appointed to the chief command in America, and that you should go out with full powers to make peace, or to continue the war, if peace should be impracticable, with renewed vigour…”
–Lord Liverpool, Prime Minister of Great Britain, in a letter to Arthur Wellesley, Duke of Wellington, November 4th, 1814 (OTL)

“It was suggested that [Wellington] might be given supreme command in America. The Regent was in favour of this plan, since ‘his name alone [would] reconcile the whole view & opinion of the Country’; and the Duke himself was not altogether averse to the idea, provided he were given authority to carry out negotiations when appropriate and bring the war to an end.”
-Christopher Hibbert, Wellington: A Personal History, 1997 (OTL)

“At first, the Iron Duke expressed a preference for America over Vienna, solely because it provided a better excuse for leaving Paris. On second thought, he had misgivings, communicated at length to Liverpool… the Duke began by asking to remain in Paris but agreed to leave if the cabinet insisted, as indeed it did. He proposed that the government recall him to serve on courts-martial, leaving a decision on the American mission to a later date. ‘Should Paris or Vienna break into flame’, Wellington wrote with characteristic self-assurance, ‘there is nobody but myself in whom either yourselves or the country, or your Allies, would feel any confidence.’ Departure for America was out of the question for some months. Although Wellington did not say so, the delay would mean that he probably would not arrive in the New World soon enough to negotiate peace before spring campaigns began.”
-Bradford Perkins, Castlereagh and Adams – England and the United States, 1812-1823, 1964 (OTL)

[1]


- - -


Paris, November 9th, 1814
Residence of the British Ambassador

This is ridiculous. Utterly ridiculous, in fact. Some whispers of a Bonapartist plot to kill me, and Liverpool wants me to go now, tail between my legs, as if I have been frightened away?

The Duke sighed, glancing down at the reply to the Prime Minister that lay half-written on the desk of the British Ambassador to France.

Arthur Wellesley did not think that the title suited him, very much. Duke, certainly. Ambassador? Certainly not. He was a soldier. A general. A leader of men. And he had not spent six years fighting the French in Iberia, taking his beloved ‘scum of the Earth’ and making them into the instruments of victory, to now be content to sit and talk with them, and make complaints about the seating arrangements at supper… and it seemed that even that would not remain long. The government had suggested that he might replace Viscount Castlereagh in the Congress at Vienna. Liverpool had asked him, too, what he thought of peace with America.

He must leave Paris – the government insisted on that. And these were his two options. America or Vienna. The peace negotiations with the United States in Ghent had been getting nowhere for months, as neither side wished to back down from their mutually incompatible demands. He might not enjoy being here in Paris – even though he felt that it was the best place to ensure no further complications happened, and keep the new French government stable – but he was settled now, damn it. And Liverpool wanted him to flee, leave his wife behind yet again, on the basis of nothing but vague phantasms of plots against his life.

The Duke had been keeping a close eye on the progress of the war against the Americans since it had broken out, in fact, and so Wellington had a great many opinions on it. He peered down at his letter, and began to write them down. At great - and scornful – length, mentally imbuing the flowing ink with vitriol.


London, November 13th, 1814
No. 10, Downing Street
The Prime Minister had had to read the Duke’s letter three times before he could bring himself to quote it aloud to the other members of the Cabinet. Wellington had… some nerve, to say the least. No subordinate would ever risk using language like this. A man who thought of himself as a new Nelson, on land, rather than at sea… a national hero, and one with the loyalty of most of the Army, at that. He considered himself indispensable to the country, and felt so secure in his position that he could criticise the government so viciously and blatantly.

The worst part was that Wellesley was correct in his assumptions.

Lord Liverpool took a long drink from his glass, and began to read the worst of it to the assembled gentlemen.
“I am willing to go to America, though I don’t promise myself much success there. We cannot prevent American incursions into Canada, nor press any offensive southward, until we have regained naval superiority on the lakes. Without this, I shall do you but little good in America; and I shall go there only to prove the truth of Prevost’s defence, and to sign a peace which might as well be signed now. My signature on a treaty of peace would reconcile England to terms of which they would not now approve. American forces still hold Canadian territory, and Sherbrooke might as well claim the ground on which his piquets stand, or over which his patrols pass. At the moment, you have no right to claim a concession of territory – why stipulate for the uti possidetis? You can get no territory, and you only afford the Americans a popular and creditable ground to avoid to make peace. I only wish to make sure you understand my position before you send me to America.” [2]
The cabinet room was silent for a long while, each minister and secretary mulling over what the Duke, hero of the Peninsula, might mean.

“He’s soft!” exclaimed Henry Bathurst, Secretary of State for War and for the Colonies, breaching the silence like the report of a pistol. “His judgement is gone thanks to his wanting of it. When has such a man ever written like that unless he desired peace and surrender to an enemy?”

“You cannot be right, sir,” said the Earl of Eldon, the Lord Chancellor, quivering slightly with the shock of it all. “The Duke is a man we have honoured many times most recently. You cannot say now that he has become a base coward in less than six months.”

The impressive figure of Henry Addington, the Viscount Sidmouth and former Prime Minister, rose his body and his voice. “My honourable friend must have misinterpreted the Duke’s words entirely. Surely, he means to criticise us for our own cowardice, in seeking peace before victory? The man explains it himself, in his own words. As things stand, he feels he could not give us a peace with honour. At Amiens, we were exhausted, and needed time to catch our breath until the next year, and so then I was architect of peace with France – but now, when we stand over our defeated enemy, will we now simply let another go?”

Liverpool cast his eyes around the room, though not before pouring himself another glass.
“I think that you may be correct, sir. And I do not need to mention the consequences for this government if the Duke makes these criticisms of our policies publicly. We might lose the confidence of the people – or worse, of Parliament! And we cannot know what would happen after that, without our guiding hands overseeing the establishment of peace in Europe as well as in the New World.”

The Prime Minister then looked to the two men whom had perhaps felt less indignation and more thought than most on the matter of the Duke’s letter. The Lords Melville and Musgrave – First Lord of the Admiralty, and Master-General of the Ordnance. “What do our honourable friends think – can Wellington do as he says, and win this war with honour?”

“The sea is already free of danger, but for a few American privateers.” First Lord Melville said, shortly and with great confidence. “Their coastal waters are practically ours as we speak.”

“With the end of the war with France, we will be able to shift our resources to further efforts. If the Treasury will provide, that is?” Master-General Musgrave raised a querying eyebrow to the Chancellor of the Exchequer.

Nicholas Vansittart closed his eyes. “We will have to take on more debts and continue taxation at current levels. The people expect their duties to return to normal now that Bonaparte is beaten – it will not be easy, my honourable friends. We have been at war almost constantly for more than twenty years.”

“So we must either face Wellington or face the debt, gentlemen...”


London, November 20th, 1814
No. 10, Downing Street

Wearing his full uniform once again – the first time since he had sat for his portrait in Paris - Field Marshal Arthur Wellesley, 1st Duke of Wellington, was ushered through the front door of the residence with a great deal of reverence. The Cabinet had given him his own choice of excuse for why he had left Paris in a hurry and rushed across the Channel on a frigate out of Calais, and he had chosen to say that he was, in fact, headed to England to sit on courts-martial, despite the heavy hinting from the Prime Minister that it was to do with America.

He could not say he was displeased, if he had cowed the entire Cabinet into acceding to his wishes and making peace immediately through him. Admittedly, the Duke had never expected it – indeed, he had felt it far more likely that they would send him off to Vienna, to get him as far away from London and any possibility of directing the attention of Parliament towards his complaints as possible. The Cabinet Room was full of expectant faces as he arrived, the gold lace catching the watery November sunlight from the window as he moved automatically to near the head of the table with the Prime Minister. He made sure that his hook-nosed figure dominated the commanding end of the table, not wishing to reduce the effect of his presence. [3]

“The honourable gentlemen of the cabinet have summoned me?” he asked, curtly, cutting straight to the point.

“His Majesty’s Government…” Lord Liverpool began, carefully choosing his words, “have decided to accede to your advice and avoid the shame you set upon us.”

Wellington could only just about hold back his smirk. Had they called him here simply to apologise in person?

“You are to be appointed His Majesty’s Commander-in-Chief for the Americas. Any asset or resource that is required for you to secure an honourable victory for England that it is in our power to provide will be yours. And we trust absolutely, your grace, that you will deliver it, and more!”


- - -


[1] These quotes are, of course, taken and interpreted out of context for the purposes of this timeline. The OTL Duke believed that war with the United States was pointless, and was in favour of peace being made immediately without dragging out the negotiations – and threatened to do so were he appointed to command the Americas with the full authority he requested. As you will see in footnote #2, however, the wording of his letters to the government can be interpreted in an entirely different manner without difficulty without altering their content.

[2] I have mixed direct quotes and paraphrasing, from Perkins’ account of Wellington’s response to produce this fictionalised, simplified account of his reply to Lord Liverpool. His intention in the OTL was to promote a peace by showing how the insistence on keeping conquered territory in the negotiations at Ghent was harmful. In this timeline, however, his thoughts were just a little different, and the Cabinet’s interpretation of them was altered accordingly. The following Cabinet meetings are, of course, entirely dramatized, fictional, and probably almost nothing like how such meetings actually proceeded, but I have made them so for the entertainment and convenience of the reader.

[3] Quite a few biographies and other books featuring Arthur Wellesley portray him as, on the personal level, what we might call today a ‘colossal douchebag’, and certainly he was very domineering, vain, and self-interested – though a great and inspirational leader nevertheless. For the purposes of this timeline, I have decided that focusing this aspect of his personality suits better than a more favourable one to create a point of divergence.
 
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This promises to be...interesting.

And I can't help but chuckle here:

Hello! I've been lurking here for... over a year now, but had resolved not to post anything until I had something to contribute. Or, at least, something to contribute that wasn't ridiculously guided and with a pre-determined outcome - though I suppose I might do one of those for fun, at some point (Venetian Republic wank, anyone)? Having not been able to find an introductions or welcome thread - possibly because I'm stupid - I've thought that this was as good a first post as any.

You have the bloody Iron Duke, given free access to anything Britain has to offer, and the outcome ISN'T predetermined to be a curb stomp of the US?


:D

More seriously, it should be interesting to see what exactly Wellington does with that sort of authority, even though I'm not sure I like the idea of him going into the War of 1812 as a timeline (not to discourage you, just seems odd to me).

Playing up his douchebaggery ought to lead to some very enjoyable - or agonizing - scenes.
 
This promises to be...interesting.

And I can't help but chuckle here:



You have the bloody Iron Duke, given free access to anything Britain has to offer, and the outcome ISN'T predetermined to be a curb stomp of the US?

I suspect the OP was referring to what may happen in Europe without Wellington on the scene...

Playing up his douchebaggery ought to lead to some very enjoyable - or agonizing - scenes.

It shouldn't be overdone - Wellington was perfectly capable of adjusting his behaviour to meet his audience's expectations. Whether he'd bother with the Americans is a different matter of course.
 
I suspect the OP was referring to what may happen in Europe without Wellington on the scene...

Now that could be interesting.

It shouldn't be overdone - Wellington was perfectly capable of adjusting his behaviour to meet his audience's expectations. Whether he'd bother with the Americans is a different matter of course.

Capable, sure, but willing might be another matter. Wellington with full authority is a Wellington free to deal with annoyances as he wants to.
 
I am told Wellington didn't want the job because the only waty to achieve victory would have been to wage war against civilians on a scale carried out by the French in Spain. The Whitehouse probably wouldn't have been burnt and Wellington would have tried to reach a negotiated settlement if it was within his remit but like Howe in the American Revolutionary War his heart would not have been in the job
 
You also know that "Iron Duke" is wildly anachronistic here.
The Iron Duke

This commonly used nickname possibly became popular after an incident in 1832, in which he installed metal shutters to prevent rioters breaking windows at Apsley House
 
@Elfwine: My undergraduate dissertation was actually on the question of 'who won the War of 1812' (answer: both sides won and lost simultaneously, in essence). The United States' army was actually quite well-organised by late 1814 and resisting the influx of British reinforcements capably, and the OTL British government lacked any confidence that they could win - at least without continuing ruinously expensive fighting on the same scale as they had been doing in Europe.
As for the Duke going to America to take command... it was certainly a very real possibility, as I have chosen OTL historians' quotes to show.

@RPW: On the immediate level, as this post will show, there is, at very least, going to be a lack of the presence of the 23,000 British troops who were hanging around in Belgium during the next year, amongst all the other deployments... but no, Wellington is certainly not evil, just self-interested. I mean to say that he is definitely not a humble man, as all of his letters ooze self-assurance and a feeling of superiority, regardless of whom he is writing to. He really did send a letter blatantly criticising the government policy and subtly threatening to go public with it unless they did as he asked - and so they sent him off to Vienna and instructed the diplomats at Ghent to make peace as speedily as possible without demands.

@Andrew Hudson: The burning of Washington has already happened (August 1814), and the Battle of New Orleans will occur while Wellington is in transit (January 1815). We know that he did disapprove of the burning of Washington, however, though he would not permit the French to criticise it after their actions. So I don't think we'll be seeing those kinds of tactics from him.

@Dathi THorfinnsson: Yes, very much anachronistic. For that reason, I haven't included it in the in-universe texts, just the historiography. It just makes a catchier title than my original 'Arthur Wellesley, 1st Duke of Wellington, and the Star-Spangled Banner'. :p


”The Iron Duke and the Star-Spangled Banner”
Part II: Eyes Fixed on Vienna

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Robert Stewart, 2nd Marquess of Londonderry (known as Lord Castlereagh)

"As the Congress at Vienna continued, Castlereagh was able to bury himself deeply in his work there and dedicate himself to the cause of a fair peace. There were rumblings from London that he might be replaced with someone more assertive for British interests - letters between the Duke of Wellington and Lord Liverpool's government show that the former was considered as a candidate, though the famous 'American Meeting' on the 20th of November put paid to any chance of this occurring. By January, the new Commander-in-Chief for the Americas had already given his orders for the transportation of British forces across the Atlantic for his campaign in the spring, and had already the crossing to Canada himself aboard HMS Bellerophon in order to prepare the existing forces there for the coming exertions. In the event, therefore, the Foreign Secretary was able to continue his work of establishing a peace in Europe that would come under British influence, but without requiring the expenditure of any effort. Castlereagh was keenly aware that the country could ill-afford further commitments on the Continent, thanks to the continuing commitment to the American war.

Consequently, he refused to support the proposals that each state should keep 150,000 soldiers mobilised and ready to uphold the treaties should 'any power' breach them. Not only did Britain lack the manpower or money to agree to such a clause, but Castlereagh felt that mandating the minimum size standing armies by treaty would only create a hostile atmosphere not conducive to the peace, especially as it would encourage France, now an ally of all, to feel threatened. The Prussian delegation, in particular, felt most outraged by what they saw as unwillingness to stick by whatever terms were agreed, and the Prussian chancellor, von Hardenburg, stormed out of the negotiations by the end of 1814, leaving his assistant, the scholar Wilhelm von Humboldt, to represent Prussian interests. King Frederick, too, withdrew from many negotiations, sending orders that the army remain prepared for French aggression and having many private meetings with Tsar Alexander."
-Harold Nicolson, The Congress at Vienna: A Study in Disunity, 1946


Prince_Metternich_by_Lawrence.jpeg

Prince Klemens Wenzel von Metternich

"Together, the Foreign Minister and the Foreign Secretary steadily assembled and planned for a lasting peace in Europe. Though it was Castlereagh's brainchild, Prince Metternich wholeheartedly embraced the idea of a 'Congress System', in which the disputes of the continent would be discussed in conference and resolved through words, rather than wars. Both men connected through their idealism, and a personal friendship developed between them, but the already-diverging forces of national interest were pulling them apart, even as they tried to stitch together a lasting peace from many different and incompatible sections of cloth.

Castlereagh tried to maintain the illusion that Britain wished to remain actively involved in continental affairs, and that they fully supported the reactionary plans to ensure that republicanism and liberalism would never again appear - but especially given the commitment to America, and Britain's self-identification as a liberal democracy, this was transparently false. As he could not take - nor wished to take - any actions to back his words, the other powers of Europe quickly grew towards distrust of 'perfidious Albion' yet again, privately suspecting that Britain cared little for the fate of their nations so long as they maintained the right to trade freely throughout the continent.

Prince Metternich himself, in his private letters, seemed to understand Castlereagh's plight, and attempted to use his considerable influence to help his friend and wrestle Europe towards peace. Austria, however, had far too many issues and disagreements of her own to contend with - and Metternich was caught right in the middle. While he was not unused to putting on different faces for different people, as a diplomat, the contortions that the Prince had to put himself through at Vienna were spectacular, though perhaps no more so than those of the other major powers. He negotiated with Talleyrand, but presciently distrusted his motives, and so carried on parallel private negotiations with King Louis of France.

He was tasked with forming a close bond with Russia, to prevent Prussian militarism from starting another war, but also had to rely on the promises of Talleyrand to keep in check the Russo-Prussian negotiating alliance on the Polish-Saxon issue. On the 3rd of January, Talleyrand proposed a secret alliance between Britain, Austria, and France against Prussia and Russia should they insist upon their demands, but Castlereagh was unable to commit any British forces to such an endeavour, as Parliament had little interest in rejecting the claims, and the proposal was shelved. Later events made clear, however, that the idea of a renewed alliance between France and Austria remained in the minds of both Metternich and Talleyrand, despite their evident personal distrust and dislike of each other."
-Henry K. Singer, An Opportunity Lost - Castlereagh, Metternich, Talleyrand and the Problems for Peace, 1814-1817, 1957


talleyrand.jpg

Charles Maurice de Talleyrand

"Distrust reigned supreme in the diplomatic circles of Europe in that winter. Ostensibly a gathering of victorious allies redrawing the map in the name of peace, it had become one thing in public and another in private entirely by the beginning of 1815. Almost every ambassador performed Janus-like feats of dissembling, aligning themselves with other nations in favour of their interests in one area while plotting against them with the others. The Russians and Prussians sought to create a Kingdom of Poland under Tsar Alexander and to annex Saxony to Prussian rule, opposed by the Austrians and French. Meanwhile, the Austrians and Prussians agreed on the formation of a German Confederation out of the German states, against the secret opposition of France and the more open opposition of Russia. All opposed republicanism and French aggression in principle, but Talleyrand was careful to ensure that France was not weakened by the treaties, using Austrian fears of a belligerent alliance between Russia and Prussia as leverage.

Britain, comparatively, stood aloof and alone, her eyes clearly diverted across the Atlantic, though her influence outside of Europe was more than enough to secure her some colonial territorial gains, and much of Castlereagh's plan did come to fruition. The United Kingdom of the Netherlands was formed under the House of Orange-Nassau, and several German states, including British-allied Hanover, made large territorial gains, over French objections. There were several other disputes between minor powers that continued incessantly, such as border disputes between Portugal and Spain, but these were very much pushed aside, the great powers being far more concerned with their own interests. [1]

With Castlereagh's support on European matters holding little weight, the defeated French and the Austrians were unable to prevent the resolution of the 'Polish-Saxon Crisis' in terms unfavourable to them. The Kingdom of Saxony would be annexed to Prussia, and a large Polish client state under Russia would be created. Alexander I, still in Vienna, triumphantly pronounced to Metternich that 'I shall be the King of Poland, and the King of Prussia will be the King of Saxony.' If they disagreed, he pointed out, Russia had 450,000 troops in the area, which the Austrians were 'welcome to attempt to remove' [2]. So threatening seemed Alexander's rhetoric that Emperor Francis had his own troops begin to move east, in preparation to defend the country against a possible attack.

Alexander's confident and belligerent behaviour outraged the Austrians, but there was little they could do about it - there was no appetite for any further wars, especially not one which Austria
stood little chance of surviving, even with the support of the recently-defeated French. Metternich recognised that Austria was fortunate to have come away with their desired territorial gains in northern Italy, and chose to count his blessings, dropping the issue and grudgingly agreeing to sign in agreement, along with Castlereagh and Talleyrand [3]. War seemed to have been averted, regardless of the means.

Some historians of the latter half of the last century have suggested that more conciliatory treatment of the Austrians and some kind of compromise might have kept the nations of Europe in concert with each other, but events moved faster than anticipated. On the 26th of February - even as the diplomats consigned Saxony to Prussia and all Poland to Russia - Napoleon, the exiled Emperor of France, left his imposed exile on the island of Elba and travelled north, landing in southern France on the 1st of March, unknown to the bickering delegates. The confident assurance of the victorious nations was soon to be shockingly shattered."

-Harold Nicolson, The Congress at Vienna: A Study in Disunity, 1946


- - -


[1] In short, I'm trying to say that any changes to the real Treaty of Vienna not explicitly mentioned happened as they did in OTL, though I'm absolutely certain that I've missed some consequences of a Britain less involved in continental affairs, and with an ambassador to the congress retained who disagreed with his own government on how to proceed (which he did in OTL, too, over the Polish-Saxon Crisis). Suggestions and comments are, as usual, welcome.

[2] In the OTL, these comments by Tsar Alexander were made to Castlereagh, not Metternich. I've changed their target to reflect Britain's lesser role in the Congress negotiations.

[3] I know that the idea of the Polish-Saxon Crisis sparking an immediate war of Russia, Prussia vs Austria, France, Britain has been done before... but this time, there's no Britain, and consequently no war... in the form of the prior timelines, at least. The 'balance of power' in Europe is now dangerously unstable, however, with Britain weighing so lightly upon the scales. Oh, and I wanted to put a map of the Russian and Prussian claims in, but I have no map-making capability at the moment and I couldn't find one. If anyone happens to have one lying around, it'd be very appreciated.
 
Consequently, he refused to support the proposals that each state should keep 150,000 soldiers mobilised and ready to uphold the treaties should 'any power' breach them.
OTL, Britain got off by promising to contribute money instead of troops. OTOH, money might be scarcer, too. Oh, I see you cover that.

"Together, the Foreign Minister and the Foreign Secretary steadily assembled and planned for a lasting peace in Europe. Though it was Castlereagh's brainchild, Prince Metternich wholeheartedly embraced the idea of a 'Congress System', in which the disputes of the continent would be discussed in conference and resolved through words, rather than wars.
true

Castlereagh tried to maintain the illusion that Britain wished to remain actively involved in continental affairs, and that they fully supported the reactionary plans to ensure that republicanism and liberalism would never again appear
false
Britain repeatedly and specifically refused to let the Quintuple Alliance have anything to do with suppressing liberalism.

"Distrust reigned supreme in the diplomatic circles of Europe in that winter. Ostensibly a gathering of victorious allies redrawing the map in the name of peace, it had become one thing in public and another in private entirely by the beginning of 1815. Almost every ambassador performed Janus-like feats of dissembling, aligning themselves with other nations in favour of their interests in one area while plotting against them with the others. The Russians and Prussians sought to create a Kingdom of Poland under Tsar Alexander and to annex Saxony to Prussian rule, opposed by the Austrians and French.
Oh yeah. The Congress was... interesting.... Yeah, that's it. Interesting.
Oh, and I wanted to put a map of the Russian and Prussian claims in, but I have no map-making capability at the moment and I couldn't find one. If anyone happens to have one lying around, it'd be very appreciated.
The Susano/Valdemar MAP early on in my TL has those claims - along with a bunch of other stuff. (Like Silesia going to the Austrians...) But it gives a nice view of Russia's Poland desires.

alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?p=2856326&highlight=susano#post2856326
 
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Britain repeatedly and specifically refused to let the Quintuple Alliance have anything to do with suppressing liberalism.

OTL, yes - ITTL, Castlereagh doesn't have the backing of the government as OTL Wellington did, and is having to pay lip service to the idea - in a wishy-washy, non-commital manner - in order to remain relevant in the negotiations and avoid being shut out entirely. Of course, that doesn't mean that the Cabinet would back his words if they knew exactly what he was saying... but with the speed of communications (or lack of it), he's saying whatever he feel he needs to say in order to stay in the game. Which will, of course, have consequences for his career later - OTL, he was warned for overstepping his authority in siding Britain with Austria and France on the Polish-Saxon question, after all, but was replaced with Wellington before the end of negotiations. ITTL, that's taking a bit of a different form. Especially as Castlereagh is attempting to create peace in Europe, he's liable to go along at least in words with what is generally popular and agreed upon.
 
OTL, yes - ITTL, Castlereagh doesn't have the backing of the government as OTL Wellington did, and is having to pay lip service to the idea - in a wishy-washy, non-commital manner - in order to remain relevant in the negotiations and avoid being shut out entirely. Of course, that doesn't mean that the Cabinet would back his words if they knew exactly what he was saying... but with the speed of communications (or lack of it), he's saying whatever he feel he needs to say in order to stay in the game. Which will, of course, have consequences for his career later - OTL, he was warned for overstepping his authority in siding Britain with Austria and France on the Polish-Saxon question, after all, but was replaced with Wellington before the end of negotiations. ITTL, that's taking a bit of a different form. Especially as Castlereagh is attempting to create peace in Europe, he's liable to go along at least in words with what is generally popular and agreed upon.
OK. It's a difference between TLs. I still don't believe it's plausible. OTOH, the problems Castlereagh got into disregarding instructions weren't on that issue, IIRC, and I simply don't see ANY British government wanting to pay even lip service to the idea.

I mean, look at OTL. The British government vetoed QA support for Frances' intervention in Spain AND Austria's intervention in Naples. So, NO ONE on the British side, that I can see would support that. Nor do I see anything here that would cause that change.

Ummm... Would this work. Castlereagh proposes the Alliance, the others jump on board, write a draft that is ambiguous in meaning, Castlereagh wants it firmed up one way, the others want it firmed up the other way, the ambiguous wording is left in, and the other Great Powers just interpret the wording the way they always wanted, and are very annoyed, even betrayed, when the British start objecting vocally? ??

That I could see with a push to peace, like what you have. And it would give you most of what I think you want?

Still, it's your TL.
 
Castlereagh proposes the Alliance, the others jump on board, write a draft that is ambiguous in meaning, Castlereagh wants it firmed up one way, the others want it firmed up the other way, the ambiguous wording is left in, and the other Great Powers just interpret the wording the way they always wanted, and are very annoyed, even betrayed, when the British start objecting vocally?

That'd be a good explanation... but as it happens, the issue of the Quadruple Alliance is going to already be moot by the time it was decided to renew it in OTL. Over the 1814-1815 winter, Castlereagh is simply making vaguely supportive ambiguous statements. There'll be consequences for him later, but European events are taking a different turn well before November.
 
An interesting idea, I look forward to seeing how things will develop in Europe without Wellington. Consider me subscribed.
 
As an admirer of the Duke, I'm certainly interested in any TL wherein he plays a large role. I'd disagree with you slightly on his character assesment. He was a control freak, quick to exasperation and quite demanding with allies, but he still had some warmer qualities that were sometimes overlooked and always put duty before anything else. I'll subscribe to this certainly as it promises to be interesting.
 
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