The scripts Brosnan got (Goldeneye excepted) were never as good as he deserved. Frankly, it might be better for him TTL to have the "Best Bond We Never Had" tag and pursue other work...
The Iron Age of Comics: Jim Shooter's Return to Marvel
- Thread starter Pyro
- Start date
The scripts Brosnan got (Goldeneye excepted) were never as good as he deserved. Frankly, it might be better for him TTL to have the "Best Bond We Never Had" tag and pursue other work...
Dropping in to give you an update on the latest chapter-in-progress. It's around half-done and was originally going to detail the fate of the New Universe--and still does--but ended up expanding in scope.
Like Tony Stark, which I believe Brosnan can channel his inner Bond into TTL.
Chapter 27 - The Cataclysmic End of the New Universe
The New Universe had been one of Jim Shooter’s most ambitious projects during his first stint at Marvel. Intended to represent “the world outside your window” in 1986, he had originally wanted to recruit top talent for the books, but budget cuts prevented that and Shooter’s firing the following year only placed the imprint in further disarray. It continued to languish for years until Marvel quietly ended the line in 1990, but Jim Shooter had not completely given up on it just yet. Editor and writer Mark Gruenwald [1] had expressed a desire to revisit the New Universe in Quasar for a storyline, an idea that Shooter not only liked, but expanded into a companywide crossover [2].
Gruenwald took inspiration from DC’s Crisis on Infinite Earths in terms of scope and using his encyclopedic knowledge of Marvel lore to craft a tale that would not only touch upon the 616 and New universes, but the entire multiverse itself. For that he brought on writers like Jim Starlin and Kurt Busiek for an event that the company promoted heavily as “Cataclysm.” It started with the prelude in Quasar when Wendall Vaughn finds himself stranded in the New Universe where he encounters characters such from Psi-Force and DP7.
Upon learning that the Star Brand possesses the power to return him to his native universe, he seeks out Ken Connell who agrees to assist him. However, in doing so, he inadvertently ruptures the multiverse that sets countless parallel universes (e.g. Days of Future Past, Squadron Supreme) on a collision course. To make matters worse, the cosmic entity, Oblivion, abducts Connell to prevent him from using the Star Brand to undo the damage.
Starlin co-plotted Cataclysm with Gruenwald and penned the eight issue mini-series, which served as the “spine” for the event. Vaughn, along with Adam Warlock, would then be forced to partner with Thanos to locate Connell. Meanwhile, Marvel’s earthbound heroes are left to deal with various “incursions” incursions from parallel universes and timelines. Most of these incursions were isolated events, notably in the X-Men and Spider-Man titles where the Children of the Atom fought an invasion of Sentinels from the “Days of Future Past” timeline and the Web Slinger teamed his multiversal counterparts (including Spider-Man 2099) to defeat the Goblin King.
Marvel left practically no timeline untouched and there were many casualties. Of note were the last stands of the Guardians of the Galaxy [3] and the Squadron Supreme whose attempts to save their colliding universe failed. Meanwhile, Iron Man’s character took a markedly darker turn in Force Works when he killed his unscrupulous 2020 counterpart, which foreshadowed the Avenger-centric “Forever War” event. Despite the best efforts of the heroes, the destruction of the multiverse continued unabated until only the 616 and the New Universes remained.
Vaughn and Warlock convince Marvel’s Cosmic Entities to intervene with Thanos' assistance while the heroes, villains, and Marvel’s intergalactic empires launch a final assault on Oblivion’s keep. What follows is a battle royale against Oblivion’s forces beautifully rendered by George Perez while Vaughn’s cosmic team recover Connell. However, it proves to be too little, too late as the two universes begin to collide. The only way to stop the end of everything is for both Galactus and Connell to release their combined energies to restart the Big Bang.
What follows is a soft “reset” of the Marvel Universe (which fans dubbed 717) where most of its history is intact, but update to better fit the times rather than this sixties. For example, Iron Man’s origin takes place in the Middle East during a Gulf War-like conflict instead of Vietnam. It would also alter history to “resurrect” the Spider-Man clone, which would throw the web-slinger’s world into chaos. However, Most of the changes are aesthetic, but the Flashback event that followed (with special -1 numberings) expanded on some characters’ backgrounds--like the mostly untold tale of Cap and Bucky’s fated last mission.
As for the New Universe, it would receive a complete reboot glimpsed at the end of Cataclysm’s final issue. A dying Connell’s arrival in this “new” universe triggers a new White Event with him passing the Star Brand to Kendra Connor as his final act. However, with total control over budget and promotion, New Universe 2.0 would defy expectations.
[1] Gruenwald had also written DP7, one of the New Universe’s better selling titles.
[2] To varying degrees. Some street level books like Daredevil remained unaffected.
[3] The original 1969 version and not the one most readers would be familiar with.
Gruenwald took inspiration from DC’s Crisis on Infinite Earths in terms of scope and using his encyclopedic knowledge of Marvel lore to craft a tale that would not only touch upon the 616 and New universes, but the entire multiverse itself. For that he brought on writers like Jim Starlin and Kurt Busiek for an event that the company promoted heavily as “Cataclysm.” It started with the prelude in Quasar when Wendall Vaughn finds himself stranded in the New Universe where he encounters characters such from Psi-Force and DP7.
Upon learning that the Star Brand possesses the power to return him to his native universe, he seeks out Ken Connell who agrees to assist him. However, in doing so, he inadvertently ruptures the multiverse that sets countless parallel universes (e.g. Days of Future Past, Squadron Supreme) on a collision course. To make matters worse, the cosmic entity, Oblivion, abducts Connell to prevent him from using the Star Brand to undo the damage.
Starlin co-plotted Cataclysm with Gruenwald and penned the eight issue mini-series, which served as the “spine” for the event. Vaughn, along with Adam Warlock, would then be forced to partner with Thanos to locate Connell. Meanwhile, Marvel’s earthbound heroes are left to deal with various “incursions” incursions from parallel universes and timelines. Most of these incursions were isolated events, notably in the X-Men and Spider-Man titles where the Children of the Atom fought an invasion of Sentinels from the “Days of Future Past” timeline and the Web Slinger teamed his multiversal counterparts (including Spider-Man 2099) to defeat the Goblin King.
Marvel left practically no timeline untouched and there were many casualties. Of note were the last stands of the Guardians of the Galaxy [3] and the Squadron Supreme whose attempts to save their colliding universe failed. Meanwhile, Iron Man’s character took a markedly darker turn in Force Works when he killed his unscrupulous 2020 counterpart, which foreshadowed the Avenger-centric “Forever War” event. Despite the best efforts of the heroes, the destruction of the multiverse continued unabated until only the 616 and the New Universes remained.
Vaughn and Warlock convince Marvel’s Cosmic Entities to intervene with Thanos' assistance while the heroes, villains, and Marvel’s intergalactic empires launch a final assault on Oblivion’s keep. What follows is a battle royale against Oblivion’s forces beautifully rendered by George Perez while Vaughn’s cosmic team recover Connell. However, it proves to be too little, too late as the two universes begin to collide. The only way to stop the end of everything is for both Galactus and Connell to release their combined energies to restart the Big Bang.
What follows is a soft “reset” of the Marvel Universe (which fans dubbed 717) where most of its history is intact, but update to better fit the times rather than this sixties. For example, Iron Man’s origin takes place in the Middle East during a Gulf War-like conflict instead of Vietnam. It would also alter history to “resurrect” the Spider-Man clone, which would throw the web-slinger’s world into chaos. However, Most of the changes are aesthetic, but the Flashback event that followed (with special -1 numberings) expanded on some characters’ backgrounds--like the mostly untold tale of Cap and Bucky’s fated last mission.
As for the New Universe, it would receive a complete reboot glimpsed at the end of Cataclysm’s final issue. A dying Connell’s arrival in this “new” universe triggers a new White Event with him passing the Star Brand to Kendra Connor as his final act. However, with total control over budget and promotion, New Universe 2.0 would defy expectations.
[1] Gruenwald had also written DP7, one of the New Universe’s better selling titles.
[2] To varying degrees. Some street level books like Daredevil remained unaffected.
[3] The original 1969 version and not the one most readers would be familiar with.
Does Jim Shooter still buy Gold Key characters? If yes is Cataclysm when Jim Shooter introduce them into the Marvel universe?
Nope. Malibu Comics is licensing the Gold Key characters (and I should probably get back to them in the near-future.)
As for what the "new" New Universe will look like, it will likely use a combination of OTL's Valiant's original characters and Defiant's as well with some re-envisioned New Universe characters (with Star Brand taking the place of Solar.)
Do you mean Malibu's Ultraverse or part of their Protectors universe?
SOLD!
Hopefully all the other titles responded to the events not just carried on like some did after Crisis as this is the sort of event that should touch everyone even the Street characters (be funny if Daredevil met the 'Turtles'), is effected. Characters like Captain Britain with deep ties to the multiverse should definitely be effected and heavily involved. I wonder if Alan Davis, Chris Claremont, or even Alan Moore might be tempted to pen/art the Excalibur parts of this crossover?
Did Gruenwald dig out some of Marvel's more obscure characters and drop them on screen such as Woodgod or Man-Fish as Easter Eggs?
Is this Marvel Universe officially 717 or is it still 616? Leads to the possibility of using 616 later as a 'heroes all started in the 60's' timeline, similar to Earth 1998?
Interesting that the Spider-Man Clone Saga still takes place, but presumably its along the original outline rather than the bloated mess it became? Does Cataclysm change anything else with Spidey apart from Ben? Be interesting if Venom became and stayed a sane anti-Hero or Carnage was permanently killed.
Lots of 'reset' opportunities here- those No.1's probably serve as a good introduction to the new status quo- did the MU still start '10 years ago' thus in 1985?
A combination of the two as characters like Prime and Mantra still exist.
I forgot to include it it, but yes, Claremont and Davis reunite Excalibur's Cataclysm tie-in and even borrow Psylocke from the main X-Men titles.
I wouldn't put it past the Gru'.
Marvel eventually makes the 717 designation official and re-designates the previous iteration to TRN616 so it's possible the new 616 will be the universe without a sliding timeline.
Shooter is not the type to draw out the Clone Saga past its its original six months and as for other changes, Cataclysm also alters history slightly so that Mary Parker (Peter's mother) is alive and thus Peter goes on a quest to rescue for his "final" adventure as Spider-Man. Oops! Did I say that? Anyway, the purpose of bringing back Mary Parker is have her as a surrogate for Aunt May who will pass away for Amazing Spider-Man #400 for a kind of tie in to the Spider-Man film as she will be drawn to resemble Jamie Lee Curtis.
Venom/Eddie Brock will remain a sane anti-hero with Eddie making his peace with Spider-Man and assuming a new purpose: dispensing the (lethal) justice Spider-Man cannot. As such, Venom kills Cletus Kassidy at the end of TTL's Maximum Carnage and Carnage stays dead as Shooter enforces a strict "dead means dead" mandate. The symbiote is still alive, but in containment.
More or less.
SonOfSharknado
Banned
I have felt that things are a bit too rosy for Marvel given that, well, everyone hated Shooter. John Byrne talked about people literally burning him in effigy to celebrate his leaving. I feel like if he were to come back, more people would be leaving. But, the Cataclysm event and some of the movies sound pretty cool, even if it's a little too reminiscent of the 2016 Secret Wars event, and I can absolutely see DC taking legal action for how closely this mirrors the CoIE event,
I will take that under advisement. It is past time that Marvel suffer a setback and I think I know where to start: with the next update.
I just read this whole thing through, and it's pretty great!
I kinda feel McFarlane staying at Marvel is ASB, though - especially not for monetary reasons. He was already more-or-less independently wealthy. His attachment to creators' rights was definitely ideological. Lee staying makes sense - he was perfectly happy to work at Marvel, but the management managed to alienate him through bone-headed policies that Shooter, who understood the importance of keeping talent happy, would have been able to avoid - but I feel McFarlane would have left with Liefeld.
And Cataclysm, aside from being way too close to COIE (and considering the bad feelings regarding the whole Doom Patrol/X-Men plagiarism accusations, I think Marvel would already be lairy of the resemblance) kind of feels like it's taking away from Marvel's steadfast refusal to reboot, which was one of the big things they frequently pointed to as differentiating them from Marvel.
I wouldn't say everyone hated Shooter - certainly a lot of creators did, and some would leave in protest, but a lot of his more unpopular decisions as EiC had come down from above. If he'd been able to handle things his way, I think there'd be less bad blood.
Will Carol Kalish's death IOTL be butterflied away? I think that would have a major impact on the shape of the industry.
I kinda feel McFarlane staying at Marvel is ASB, though - especially not for monetary reasons. He was already more-or-less independently wealthy. His attachment to creators' rights was definitely ideological. Lee staying makes sense - he was perfectly happy to work at Marvel, but the management managed to alienate him through bone-headed policies that Shooter, who understood the importance of keeping talent happy, would have been able to avoid - but I feel McFarlane would have left with Liefeld.
And Cataclysm, aside from being way too close to COIE (and considering the bad feelings regarding the whole Doom Patrol/X-Men plagiarism accusations, I think Marvel would already be lairy of the resemblance) kind of feels like it's taking away from Marvel's steadfast refusal to reboot, which was one of the big things they frequently pointed to as differentiating them from Marvel.
I wouldn't say everyone hated Shooter - certainly a lot of creators did, and some would leave in protest, but a lot of his more unpopular decisions as EiC had come down from above. If he'd been able to handle things his way, I think there'd be less bad blood.
Will Carol Kalish's death IOTL be butterflied away? I think that would have a major impact on the shape of the industry.
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Thing about Shooter owning Marvel Entertainment is he is not EiC of the comics so he is a step(s) removed from the creators and thus I don’t think there would be the exodus like there would have been if he returned as Editor.
McFlarane staying works esp if he can launch his own owned titles under the Epic line. I have no issue with that, plus ITTL Liefield is a poison McFarlane is too canny to get attached too.
Sure Cataclysm is a little similar to Crisis in the outline here, but the devil would be in the detail of the scripts and beauty on the page- which we don’t get here. Certainly Marvel would not publish something without Legal checking it.
Marvel have done ‘relaunches’ or reboots before- the sliding timescale allows for ‘new No1’s’ at any time revamping a characters origins for ‘modern’ times. It’s how the FF don’t launch in 1961 but whenever 10 years before you reading the book is. Plus Ultimates, Apocalypse, and Onslaught where Universe Rebooting events, as was the recent Secret Wars. Marvel do it, they just didn’t have 1 Big blatant event before.
McFlarane staying works esp if he can launch his own owned titles under the Epic line. I have no issue with that, plus ITTL Liefield is a poison McFarlane is too canny to get attached too.
Sure Cataclysm is a little similar to Crisis in the outline here, but the devil would be in the detail of the scripts and beauty on the page- which we don’t get here. Certainly Marvel would not publish something without Legal checking it.
Marvel have done ‘relaunches’ or reboots before- the sliding timescale allows for ‘new No1’s’ at any time revamping a characters origins for ‘modern’ times. It’s how the FF don’t launch in 1961 but whenever 10 years before you reading the book is. Plus Ultimates, Apocalypse, and Onslaught where Universe Rebooting events, as was the recent Secret Wars. Marvel do it, they just didn’t have 1 Big blatant event before.
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The problem you have is that Liefeld and Mcfarlane were already friends and plotting to leave together at the POD. You characterising Liefeld as 'a poison McFarlane is too canny to get attached too' doesn't work.
And just from what we've seen, the resemblance seems way too strong to handwave it as 'oh it's different enough there will be no problem'. Certainly fans at the time are going to be spotting the resemblance in outline, and coming so soon after COIE is going to look like copying. Secret Wars in 2015 is far enough removed for Marvel to try its own multiversal epic, but this is too close I think.
Also, Ultimates was an alternate universe, Age of Apocalypse was a temporal alteration that went away when that story ended (although it would continue as its own universe) and Onslaught, or to be more precise Heroes Reborn was expressly a pocket universe (well, Counter-Earth, but same diff), and was received poorly - granted that probably had something to do with the poor quality of the stories. They've never done the kind of revamp of the existing origin where they put out a new book and say 'this is how it happened now' like you've suggested, with the exception of Spider-Man: Chapter One. That was extremely poorly received and was basically struck from canon. There's been stuff that's tried to build on the classic era - X-men: First Class, Untold Tales of Spider-Man, etc. but not outright negating the originals. As far as the Marvel universe is concerned, Spidey's origin is still AF#15, the FF's origin still more-or-less occurred as shown in FF#1, they just play down the more dated aspects. The wholesale importation of another line is definitely not something Marvel's done before, to my knowledge. Miles Morales and Angela are the exceptions that prove the rule.
Chapter 28 - The Rise and (Rapid) Fall of Defiant
Cataclysm was, by all measures, an unqualified success for Marvel with the mini-series and myriad tie-in dominating the sales charts throughout 1994. However, the fan and critical reception was mixed. Many fans accused the series of copying the plot of DC’s Crisis on Infinite Earths in addition to a chorus of industry professionals. What rankled some readers was not so much the similarities to the groundbreaking DC maxi-series as it was that it appeared to be a promotion for Marvel’s newest imprint: Defiant.
Defiant was conceived as a complete rebooting of the New Universe and enjoyed heavy promotion during the latter half of Cataclysm, even more than mainstream Marvel’s Flashback event. The premise was the same as the New Universe of 1986 where it was designed as, “the world your window,” but with somewhat more relaxed rules. It started with the “White Event” seen at the end of Cataclysm, which brought several dark forces in the new “New Universe” to light.
Defiant launched November 1994 with six titles.
Star Brand - Written by Shooter himself as the flagship, which probably drew the most vitriol from fans who criticized it as completely derivative of the original NU title, but with a gender-flipped protagonist.
Harbinger - A reimagining of sorts of DP7 and Psi Force that reveals that “paranormals” existed in the shadows before the White Event. The story follows Peter Stanchek, a psionic of great potential and his friends, who oppose the similarly powerful Toyo Harada and his Harbinger Foundation. Essentially a “road trip” movie, Pete grows in both power and his role of leader while on the run from Harada.
Prudence and Caution - Written by Chris Claremont and drawn by Jim Fern. An unlikely superpowered duo inspired in part by The Odd Couple. Much like Harbinger, it features two paranormals on the run. However, the duo gets drawn into sticky (and sometimes outlandish) situations where they must use their powers and their wits to get out of.
Dogs of War - Follows the adventures of ex-military officer Elvis Mazerov who gains regenerative powers similar to Wolverine’s from the White Event, however, a shot to his head leaves him with amnesia [1]. His unscrupulous superior officer presses him into service with promises of revealing parts of old life in exchange for taking wetworks missions.
Ninjak - Son of of British spy trained in the art of ninjitsu who works as an enforcer for the mysterious Weaponeer while searching for his father’s murderer.
Nightmask - A rebooted version of the original New Universe title. Unlike Star Brand, it is a complete re-envisioning of the title that devolves into voodoo featuring an all-new character Jack Boniface [2].
Despite initially promising sales, Defiant attracted both controversy and negative publicity when Malibu Comics filed a lawsuit against claiming that the Star Brand and premise of the universe was an infringement of their Solar: Man of the Atom title. While the lawsuit proved to be more damaging to Malibu than to Marvel, tanking sales caused Marvel to pull the plug on the Defiant imprint. Shooter would cite “market saturation” as the reason for Defiant’s quick demise, but most industry observers acknowledge that it was the post-Cataclysm backlash and the lawsuit.
Defiant’s reputation would be rehabilitated over time as many critics did praise the quality of the titles (the much-reviled Star Brand being the sole exception.) Claremont and Fern would later return to Prudence and Caution, which moved to the Epic imprint with Nightmask by decade’s end. Elvis Mazerov would make the jump to the 717 universe as a supporting character in Wolverine. However, Defiant will be remembered as one of the industry’s biggest disasters of the decade.
[1] Uses the character name from OTL Defiant’s Warriors of Plasm with elements of Valiant’s Bloodshot.
[2] Essentially the Valiant character, Shadowman, under another name.
Defiant was conceived as a complete rebooting of the New Universe and enjoyed heavy promotion during the latter half of Cataclysm, even more than mainstream Marvel’s Flashback event. The premise was the same as the New Universe of 1986 where it was designed as, “the world your window,” but with somewhat more relaxed rules. It started with the “White Event” seen at the end of Cataclysm, which brought several dark forces in the new “New Universe” to light.
Defiant launched November 1994 with six titles.
Star Brand - Written by Shooter himself as the flagship, which probably drew the most vitriol from fans who criticized it as completely derivative of the original NU title, but with a gender-flipped protagonist.
Harbinger - A reimagining of sorts of DP7 and Psi Force that reveals that “paranormals” existed in the shadows before the White Event. The story follows Peter Stanchek, a psionic of great potential and his friends, who oppose the similarly powerful Toyo Harada and his Harbinger Foundation. Essentially a “road trip” movie, Pete grows in both power and his role of leader while on the run from Harada.
Prudence and Caution - Written by Chris Claremont and drawn by Jim Fern. An unlikely superpowered duo inspired in part by The Odd Couple. Much like Harbinger, it features two paranormals on the run. However, the duo gets drawn into sticky (and sometimes outlandish) situations where they must use their powers and their wits to get out of.
Dogs of War - Follows the adventures of ex-military officer Elvis Mazerov who gains regenerative powers similar to Wolverine’s from the White Event, however, a shot to his head leaves him with amnesia [1]. His unscrupulous superior officer presses him into service with promises of revealing parts of old life in exchange for taking wetworks missions.
Ninjak - Son of of British spy trained in the art of ninjitsu who works as an enforcer for the mysterious Weaponeer while searching for his father’s murderer.
Nightmask - A rebooted version of the original New Universe title. Unlike Star Brand, it is a complete re-envisioning of the title that devolves into voodoo featuring an all-new character Jack Boniface [2].
Despite initially promising sales, Defiant attracted both controversy and negative publicity when Malibu Comics filed a lawsuit against claiming that the Star Brand and premise of the universe was an infringement of their Solar: Man of the Atom title. While the lawsuit proved to be more damaging to Malibu than to Marvel, tanking sales caused Marvel to pull the plug on the Defiant imprint. Shooter would cite “market saturation” as the reason for Defiant’s quick demise, but most industry observers acknowledge that it was the post-Cataclysm backlash and the lawsuit.
Defiant’s reputation would be rehabilitated over time as many critics did praise the quality of the titles (the much-reviled Star Brand being the sole exception.) Claremont and Fern would later return to Prudence and Caution, which moved to the Epic imprint with Nightmask by decade’s end. Elvis Mazerov would make the jump to the 717 universe as a supporting character in Wolverine. However, Defiant will be remembered as one of the industry’s biggest disasters of the decade.
[1] Uses the character name from OTL Defiant’s Warriors of Plasm with elements of Valiant’s Bloodshot.
[2] Essentially the Valiant character, Shadowman, under another name.
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Could we get a lineup of both sides?
Will this have elements of Archer & Armstrong?
Any elements from Marc Hazard Merc?
Does he look more like Nightmask, Shadowman, or a combination of the two?
So I assume Steve Gerber's not coming back to Marvel ITTL, given his (mutual) dislike of Shooter. So I guess we lose his later Man-Thing stuff in Marvel Comics Presents.
Kinda wonder who would take over his other books (She-Hulk, Cloak & Dagger). I think Dwayne McDuffie would be good on Cloak & Dagger.
Actually speaking of him, what does this timeline mean for the Milestone creators? Do they come together under Epic Comics instead?
Kinda wonder who would take over his other books (She-Hulk, Cloak & Dagger). I think Dwayne McDuffie would be good on Cloak & Dagger.
Actually speaking of him, what does this timeline mean for the Milestone creators? Do they come together under Epic Comics instead?
If Shooter is running the company. not Editor-in-Chief of the Comics, why would Gerber not come back given the management layers between him and Shooter?
Because of his deep personal loathing of the man? If anything, Shooter running the whole show is more likely to keep him away, IMO.