The internment of German fleet at Scapa Flow

[HJ Tulp]

Hey guys and gals,

For a timeline I have been working on for a year now (and yet haven't written a single word!) I've got a few questions on the surrender/internment of the German fleet after the end of WWI.

1. I know the fleet was escorted on both sides by the Royal Navy. Were there any civilian ships watching the show? I can imagine that there were quite a lot of people willing to pay more than a penny to watch this sight.

2. Does anyone know the exact route of the German fleet when it sailed to the Firth of Forth?

3. Edinburgh is located on the shore of the Firth of Forth. Could people see the fleet (and it's British guards) from the shore?

4. I assume that Scapa Flow was a closely guarded, restricted base in the period that the German fleet was interned. Is that correct?

 

[Aber]

3. Edinburgh is located on the shore of the Firth of Forth. Could people see the fleet (and it's British guards) from the shore?

4. I assume that Scapa Flow was a closely guarded, restricted base in the period that the German fleet was interned. Is that correct?

3 Looking north from high ground around Edinburgh
http://www.alamy.com/stock-photo-vi...ng-edinburgh-and-firth-of-forth-11977244.html

4 Scapa Flow is a gap between inhabited islands with a very long perimeter; population 20,000+

 

[HJ Tulp]

3 Looking north from high ground around Edinburgh
http://www.alamy.com/stock-photo-vi...ng-edinburgh-and-firth-of-forth-11977244.html

Thanks for the tip! Do you perhaps know of any accounts from Edinburghians (Edinburghers?) who actually saw operation ZZ taking place?

4 Scapa Flow is a gap between inhabited islands with a very long perimeter; population 20,000+

I knew that Wasn't it restricted while it was a RN base though?

The reason I want to know is that in this TL I'd like a Dutch naval officer to either see the German fleet be interned or see it being captive at Scapa Flow as that will give him a epiphany. PODs and all that you know

 

[naraic]

The reason I want to know is that in this TL I'd like a Dutch naval officer to either see the German fleet be interned or see it being captive at Scapa Flow as that will give him a epiphany. PODs and all that you know

There would have been Naval attaches from the Dutch embassy on board the British fleet.

Is it appropriate for your Dutch officer to have a diplomatic background?

 

[AlanJWhite]

1. I know the fleet was escorted on both sides by the Royal Navy.

Not initially they were not. The whole was met by one CL, HMS Cardiff and lead for some hours to a rendezvous
After rendezvous the guard included both British and US Battleships plus others in loose formation

Airships also kept watch and filmed http://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/1060023166

HMS Cardiff kept the lead all the way to Scapa.

AFAIK no civilian vessels were permitted.

3. Edinburgh is located on the shore of the Firth of Forth. Could people see the fleet (and it's British guards) from the shore?

I strongly doubt that .

Scapa is approximately 300 miles north of Edinburgh.
Wilhelmshaven is approx 480 miles ESE of Edinburgh

So any track direct W to S will be more than 100 miles offshore from E

 

[HJ Tulp]

There would have been Naval
attaches from the Dutch embassy on board the British fleet.

Is it appropriate for your Dutch officer to have a diplomatic background?

Hmmm, not really. His careerpath makes it unlikely that he would be naval attache at this point.

Not initially they were not. The whole was met by one CL, HMS Cardiff and lead for some hours to a rendezvous
After rendezvous the guard included both British and US Battleships plus others in loose formation

True. However, given the dangers of mines and such I doubt I can orchestrate a rendez-vous of a Dutch ship with the HSF before it meets HMS Cardiff.

AFAIK no civilian vessels were permitted.

It seems that the Allies were seriously (and rightfully) concerned that the HSF might want to go out with a bang so that seems logical. And frustrating

I strongly doubt that .

Scapa is approximately 300 miles north of Edinburgh.
Wilhelmshaven is approx 480 miles ESE of Edinburgh

So any track direct W to S will be more than 100 miles offshore from E

Hmm, my sources do say that the HSF and the Grand Fleet met at the Firth of Forth. Are they wrong or do they simply have a inflated idea of what the Firth of Forth is?

 

[naraic]

Hmm, my sources do say that the HSF and the Grand Fleet met at the Firth of Forth. Are they wrong or do they simply have a inflated idea of what the Firth of Forth is?

You are right, i hadn't known that before but the actual surrender took place join temporary achorages inside of inchkeith island in the firth of forth. The German fleet was moved under escort to Scapa over a number of days.

Present was the Grand Fleet including an American battlesquadron and ships from the French and Italian fleets as well as ships from a number of minor allied navies. 350 allied ships meeting 71 ships.

Inchkeith as you can see is close enough to Edinburgh that if ships achoured past that point they would be visible.

https://goo.gl/maps/jjDjRukP9ap