The Insignificance of a Corridor: A TL of WWII and Beyond

"Hmm..."

Józef Beck kept a cool face, as one would in his position, but it would not have been out of character for his heart to pulse once or twice more than normal.

Outside, it was a typical cloudy gray for April's London. The Polish Foreign Minister could not have cared less about the weather, as his British counterpart, Edward Wood, discussed in whispers with his Prime Minister, Neville Chamberlain.

After a few moments, the two nodded and returned their focus to the visiting member of the Warsaw government. The interpreter came out of a half-sleep, one which Beck envied in such a tense environment, and the talks would resume.

"We are quiet sympathetic to the concerns of your government, Mr Beck," he translated. "I can assure you, we too have seen conquest at the hands of foreign empires."

Fucking bastards, thought Beck to himself. A few Dutchmen come into your country at the behest of your Parliament, and suddenly your strife compares to ours.

"However," he continued. "While we cherish the growing bond between our countries, we wish to be precocious in regards to this particular, rather delicate situation."

Beck nodded, keeping his unemotional face. After several seconds of confusing silence, the Polish diplomat began to speak.

"Yes, I understand the reasoning of you and your government, Your Excellency. It would be unwise to endanger the security of your country, and your people, in a fashion so rushed.

"I do, however, remind you that Germany is not to be trusted. After all, they have promised only to annex the Sudeten, and yet they have invaded the whole of Czechoslovakia.

"And while we wish to keep the peace as much as any good and decent fellow, we must be prepared for the worse: that the German war machine is activated against us.

"And let me assure you, Mr Chamberlain, that if Poland is to fall, then France, Belgium, Holland, Denmark would be next. And after that, though let us hope not, they would set their eyes on London.

"Such, is the truth of things."

The British Prime Minister nodded, but he could not hide his irritation. It was clear he did not appreciate the drama projected by the Polish visitor, and neither did his Foreign Minister.

"Such fears are not unfounded," responded Chamberlain via translator. "Once again, I assure you we are sympathetic to your concerns regarding German expansionism.

"But I am acting in the interests of His Majesty, and his United Kingdoms, and not in that of yours. A military alliance between our two countries must not appear as to be a deterrent, even a threat, lest we spark a conflict."

Beck could no longer keep the emotionless face. His hands clenched into fists, his face turned red. Spark a conflict? Is he a fool, or a simple coward?

"Your Excellency, why I do not wish to drag your people into another war, I can assure you that the National Socialist regime will find another way to provoke conflict. They do not wish peace, other than their peace. We must act now, or it would doom all free nations of Europe!"

"With all due respect," interjected Woods. "From my perspective, you are angling for war, rather than against it. We must promote the cause of peace, which will prevail if we steady our course. We want to support Poland, but not at the cost of stability."

Beck was, by this point, almost on the verge of crying. He could not believe that Britain, which led the Allied cause in the Great War, was simply cowering in the face of an unprecedented tyranny. He stared at their faces, but they were still.

"Mr Chamberlain, I am not asking you for your support. I am pleading. The situation for my country is dire. The Germans might invade in three months, or tomorrow morning. Either way, our Army would not stand up to theirs.

"Your people have introduced democracy to countries such as mine. Hitler has sought to demolish it. We must no longer appease the hungry warmonger. Rather, we must show him that we will stand up to any threat! Then, will he back down!"

But still, they were unmoved. Again, they decided to converse quietly. Beck was without recourse, realizing that the fate of Poland was in the hands of a few cynical Englishmen. Such, was the story of Poland.

"I am sure that we will continue to discuss the concept of cooperation, Mr Beck, but I am afraid that a mutual pact, of any sort, is not desirable."

Beck nodded, returning his items into his briefcase. Chamberlain held out his hand for a shake, but the Pole refused. There was no purpose as to it.
 
We don't know why Halifax and Chamberlain reached this decision - is this the POD or is that to be revealed as something already passed?

If thing are otherwise as in OTL, then whether or not there was a formal guarantee to Poland, public and parliamentary opinion would likely have forced the issue, particularly if France declared war in response to the German invasion of Poland. The question is whether Halifax and/or Chamberlain could survive being pressured into war against their policy. My guess would be not, and that Churchill would be forming his government three-quarters of a year earlier.
 
We don't know why Halifax and Chamberlain reached this decision - is this the POD or is that to be revealed as something already passed?

This is the POD.

If thing are otherwise as in OTL, then whether or not there was a formal guarantee to Poland, public and parliamentary opinion would likely have forced the issue, particularly if France declared war in response to the German invasion of Poland. The question is whether Halifax and/or Chamberlain could survive being pressured into war against their policy. My guess would be not, and that Churchill would be forming his government three-quarters of a year earlier.

There were informal negotiations before a formal agreement was reached.

As for France...
 
This looks interesting. There is an alternative which Poland had rejected in the original timeline. Poland could make a deal with the devil and agree with German requests in exchange for a partnership. Poland provides Germany with food and other natural resources in exchange for industrial equipment. Poland later helps Germany invade the Soviet Union and is rewarded with more land.

The other alternative is to ally with the Soviet Union and help invade Germany.

So Poland has to decide which devil will not eat them alive.

Regards

Stubear1012
 
This looks interesting. There is an alternative which Poland had rejected in the original timeline. Poland could make a deal with the devil and agree with German requests in exchange for a partnership. Poland provides Germany with food and other natural resources in exchange for industrial equipment. Poland later helps Germany invade the Soviet Union and is rewarded with more land.

The other alternative is to ally with the Soviet Union and help invade Germany.

So Poland has to decide which devil will not eat them alive.

Regards

Stubear1012

I say the first one.
 
Absurd. Once Czechoslovakia happened, everyone knew that Hitler couldn't be trusted in anything. No way, none at all, the the Brits don't take action.
 

Zagan

Donor
ASB = magic / time travel / supernatural intervention / other impossible (not improbable) occurences.
So, what you wrote could be improbable, but it cannot be ASB.
Please go on.
 
So Poland has to decide which devil will not eat them alive.

I say the first one.

From an objective standpoint, the USSR is the "superior" choice for the Poles in much the same way being tortured is the "superior" choice to being tortured and then murdered. The Nazis will annex and murder all the Poles the first opportunity they get. The Soviets will merely turn the Poles into a communist puppet state and seize their Eastern territories. Also, without conquering and looting Western Europe, the Germans do not have the military (particularly logistical) assets to penetrate beyond the D'niepr river line, much less achieve what they did with OTL Barbarossa... which leaves the Soviets with all the military-industrial assets it needs to solo destroy the German-Pole alliance. Which is, in part, why Hitler is liable to attack the Anglo-French in 1940 regardless of what they do.

From the Polish standpoint, however, there is no choosing. They hate the Germans and the Soviets in equal measure and are determined to keep their independence from both. They will not ally with either. In that they are doomed but it is a fate they are (and were, as you'll recall that allying with the Anglo-French didn't work out in the end) willing to defy no matter how futile.

ASB = magic / time travel / supernatural intervention / other impossible (not improbable) occurrences.
So, what you wrote could be improbable, but it cannot be ASB.

Yes it can. In this case, the impossible occurrence is that the British Government continue to try and avoid war with Germany when it's public, to whom it is answerable too, is overwhelmingly demanding the opposite. Ditto the French.

Well, it's not too ASB, or anything like that. The UK was still suffering from World War 1, and they really did not what to get into another war.

And after Czechoslovakia, you would be wrong. The level of outrage the German dismemberment of Czechoslovakia created throughout the Anglo-French public was overwhelming, as was the new support for the containment of Germany even if that required war. It also quite clearly signaled to everyone in Europe where Germany's priorities lay. Chaimberlain himself called Germany's move as "a step in the direction of an attempt to dominate the world by force" and one of the British ministers noted that where Chaimberlain "was once a strong advocate of peace, he has now definitely swung around to the war point of view."

The long and short of it is that appeasement died a quick and swift death in March of 1939. The PoD posited by the OP is impossible under the prevailing geopolitical situation and if Chaimberlain was stupid enough to make it, the only alteration of note would be swiftly reversed by the downfall of his government and an emergency election. You would need a PoD further back to dodge the British guarantee to Poland.
 
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And after Czechoslovakia, you would be wrong. The level of outrage the German dismemberment of Czechoslovakia created throughout the Anglo-French public was overwhelming, as was the new support for the containment of Germany even if that required war. It also quite clearly signaled to everyone in Europe where Germany's priorities lay. Chaimberlain himself called Germany's move as "a step in the direction of an attempt to dominate the world by force" and one of the British ministers noted that where Chaimberlain "was once a strong advocate of peace, he has now definitely swung around to the war point of view."

The long and short of it is that appeasement died a quick and swift death in March of 1939. The PoD posited by the OP is impossible under the prevailing geopolitical situation and if Chaimberlain was stupid enough to make it, the only alteration of note would be swiftly reversed by the downfall of his government and an emergency election. You would need a PoD further back to dodge the British guarantee to Poland.

Is it too implausible to continue?
 
Is it too implausible to continue?

In my view, yes. If you don't agree with me and(/or agree with me but) just want to keep running with the scenario, then feel free to continue. My suggestion, though, would be a minor re-write that shifts the PoD and makes it different: instead of Hitler annexing the remaining Czech land, he strong-arms the abandoned Czechoslovak into appointing a fascist, pro-German government thereby de-facto turning them into a Nazi sattelite. Since Czechoslovakia's territorial integrity is not violated further, the Anglo-French's hackles are raised a bit but not to the point where they try and switch to a containment policy so rapidly.

It probably isn't a 100% sure thing that this would work, but it's certainly strikes me as more plausible set-up then Chaimberlain trying to do the diametric opposite of what the British public want him to do which just won't fly with them. With democratic societies (and, to a lesser extent, oligrachies) where policy is worked out by a interacting mixture of bureaucracy and politics, you need to lay the ground work for these kind kind of PoDs more then you do with one-man authoritarian/totalitarian states where policy is set by the leadership.
 
In my view, yes. If you don't agree with me and(/or agree with me but) just want to keep running with the scenario, then feel free to continue. My suggestion, though, would be a minor re-write that makes the PoD a bit different: instead of Hitler annexing the remaining Czech land, he strong-arms the abandoned Czechoslovak into appointing a fascist, pro-German government thereby de-facto turning them into a Nazi sattelite. Since Czechoslovakia's territorial integrity is not violated further, the Anglo-French's hackles are raised a bit but not to the point where they try and switch to a containment policy so rapidly.

It probably isn't a 100% sure thing that this would work, but it's certainly strikes me as more plausible set-up then Chaimberlain trying to do the diametric opposite of what the British public want him to do which just won't fly with them. You need to lay the ground work for these kind

Well, I will consider this. Thank you
 
Without the British harassing Germany I'd imagine that they would steam right through Europe and be at a considerable advantage when invading the Soviet Union. Without additional troops focused on Britain I think that Germany would be able to capture Moscow by at 1942.
 
Without the British harassing Germany

If Germany hits the French, then the British are not staying out. That alliance was solidified by events in 1914, not 1938 or '39.

Additionally, Anglo-French rearmament was started in August... even before Munich, so Germany's initial lead in armaments is already on a time limit and Hitler is well aware of it.
 
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