The history of the Dutch republic
- Thread starter pompejus
- Start date
The Grin Without a Cat
Banned
Nice you found a good name for Australia (sorry mean New Gelre). Are the British still intersted in it?
This TL is set in the early 17th century, the British won't be around yet for another 100 years, but to give your question an honest answer, the British weren't interested in Australia up until the the late 18th century, so that's a no.
I suspect a more Catholic friendly Netherlands, or at least one with more Catholics may make for a different Cape Colony - one that is rather less fiercely Calvinist. What the long term implications of that would be I do not know, but it could be interesting to see how that shaped ITTL Afrikaner culture
Looks nice so far.
What about Wesel, Gulik and the never exploited dash to the west of Frederick Hendrick in1632 after the successful campaign along the river Meuse?
Does the Republic include this time whole Gelre and Limbourg or just as in OTL some bits? What about East Frisia and Bentheim, both Calvinistic too, do they enter theRepublic as full memebrs or are they just protectorates as OTL and finaly dissolve in a, distant future, Germany?
Look more to the East of the new Republic, all time lines only focus on a more or less uniting the Burgunic kreis, which hardly lasted a generation, while some parts of the Counties and Prince Bishoprics in the East have more in common with the Republic than Flandres or Brabant, don't mention Arras or Hainaut.
Also please let this WIC get bust and never get it charter renewed. Like the traders of Amsterdam wanted. There is no room for an monopolistic company like the VOC on the trading lanes of the Atlantic. Please let it over to small trading companies. It gives you more freedom to let Brasil and Novo Belgica to thrive.
And just a hind let Kieft die of some typical medieval disease so he never can start the Indian war which was so bad for Nieuw Amsterdam.
What about Wesel, Gulik and the never exploited dash to the west of Frederick Hendrick in1632 after the successful campaign along the river Meuse?
Does the Republic include this time whole Gelre and Limbourg or just as in OTL some bits? What about East Frisia and Bentheim, both Calvinistic too, do they enter theRepublic as full memebrs or are they just protectorates as OTL and finaly dissolve in a, distant future, Germany?
Look more to the East of the new Republic, all time lines only focus on a more or less uniting the Burgunic kreis, which hardly lasted a generation, while some parts of the Counties and Prince Bishoprics in the East have more in common with the Republic than Flandres or Brabant, don't mention Arras or Hainaut.
Also please let this WIC get bust and never get it charter renewed. Like the traders of Amsterdam wanted. There is no room for an monopolistic company like the VOC on the trading lanes of the Atlantic. Please let it over to small trading companies. It gives you more freedom to let Brasil and Novo Belgica to thrive.
And just a hind let Kieft die of some typical medieval disease so he never can start the Indian war which was so bad for Nieuw Amsterdam.
I have my ideas what to do with those German parts, but I can tell you that at the moment the Dutch are not looking east for expansion. Actually they are barely looking south. They only recently got their independence and just trying to get as rich as possible through trade. But as I said, the borders will change, wether it be east or south (or maybe north or west, I could plan giving Groningen to the Germans, I am not going to tell yet).
At this point I only have a rough idea what to do exactly with the New Netherlands, but I will keep this in mind.
Internal troubles
At the end of the Dutch revolt it was not clear who the true rulers of the Netherlands were. The Republic was a ship with two captains. Both the stadholders as the wealthy merchants in Holland wanted to rule the new country, or at least prevent the other to rule it. In 1650 Willem II, stadholder of Holland, Zeeland, Utrecht, Overijssel, Gelderland and Groningen decided to strike first. At first they captured various opponents and locked them up in Slot Loevestein, a castle in Gelderland. After this Willem II raised an army to attack Amsterdam. The attempt failed when the states of Holland found out. They managed to arrest Willem II before his army was ready. The states of Holland removed his title of stadholder of Holland and he was stripped of all official positions in Holland and the states of Zeeland and Utrecht followed Holland’s example. They decided not to appoint a new stadholder. Willem II was locked up at first in Slot Loevestein, later in a palace built at Apeldoorn.
At the end of the Dutch revolt it was not clear who the true rulers of the Netherlands were. The Republic was a ship with two captains. Both the stadholders as the wealthy merchants in Holland wanted to rule the new country, or at least prevent the other to rule it. In 1650 Willem II, stadholder of Holland, Zeeland, Utrecht, Overijssel, Gelderland and Groningen decided to strike first. At first they captured various opponents and locked them up in Slot Loevestein, a castle in Gelderland. After this Willem II raised an army to attack Amsterdam. The attempt failed when the states of Holland found out. They managed to arrest Willem II before his army was ready. The states of Holland removed his title of stadholder of Holland and he was stripped of all official positions in Holland and the states of Zeeland and Utrecht followed Holland’s example. They decided not to appoint a new stadholder. Willem II was locked up at first in Slot Loevestein, later in a palace built at Apeldoorn.
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Staats-Amerika
From the moment of its foundation the New Netherlands and especially its capital slowly grew into a larger and wealthy colony, although the surrounding British colonies grew faster. A large reason for this was the WIC, who did not care for the settlement. It only cared for the profit that could be made with it, mostly in the form of the fur trade. This profit was extremely small compared to the profit that the WIC made from the plantations in New Holland and the Dutch west Indies or the slave trade from the African Gold coast. So the WIC cared less and less about the North American colony.
In 1652 the citizens of New Amsterdam had enough and sent an emissary to the Estate-General of the Dutch republic. There they asked to remove the WIC from power and become part of the Dutch republic. The Estate-General accepted the proposal. From that moment on the New Netherlands would be ruled by the Estate-General as an generality land, not unlike Dutch Brabant. In practice though the New Netherlands (or Staats-Amerika) had far more autonomy than the European Generality lands.
From the moment of its foundation the New Netherlands and especially its capital slowly grew into a larger and wealthy colony, although the surrounding British colonies grew faster. A large reason for this was the WIC, who did not care for the settlement. It only cared for the profit that could be made with it, mostly in the form of the fur trade. This profit was extremely small compared to the profit that the WIC made from the plantations in New Holland and the Dutch west Indies or the slave trade from the African Gold coast. So the WIC cared less and less about the North American colony.
In 1652 the citizens of New Amsterdam had enough and sent an emissary to the Estate-General of the Dutch republic. There they asked to remove the WIC from power and become part of the Dutch republic. The Estate-General accepted the proposal. From that moment on the New Netherlands would be ruled by the Estate-General as an generality land, not unlike Dutch Brabant. In practice though the New Netherlands (or Staats-Amerika) had far more autonomy than the European Generality lands.
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Pompejus... are you going not a bit too fast or is this an introduction of a time line in an other century rather than the 17th you now describes?
By the way 1652 for City rights of New Amsterdam is as in OTL happened by the effort of Mr van der Donckt. I think something must change earlier in Nieuw Amsterdam if you want to have an earlier success of New Amsterdam on the Hudson.
Also William II is first defacto dictator and next time he is imprisoned????
And what happened in England? Is it now a Commonwealth or what?? In OTL the Commonwealth truly wanted a union with fellow Protestant United Provinces, due to mis understanding a large and heavy diplomatic envoy arrived in the Hague from London only to discover that the Dutch never contemplated it as a serious idea. Now you suddenly made the son of William II pretender of the English throne???
By the way 1652 for City rights of New Amsterdam is as in OTL happened by the effort of Mr van der Donckt. I think something must change earlier in Nieuw Amsterdam if you want to have an earlier success of New Amsterdam on the Hudson.
Also William II is first defacto dictator and next time he is imprisoned????
And what happened in England? Is it now a Commonwealth or what?? In OTL the Commonwealth truly wanted a union with fellow Protestant United Provinces, due to mis understanding a large and heavy diplomatic envoy arrived in the Hague from London only to discover that the Dutch never contemplated it as a serious idea. Now you suddenly made the son of William II pretender of the English throne???
Instead of 1652, I accidentally typed 1852. I correced that and I assume you meant that. I did that before, I wonder why.
Eh huh? I never made Willem II a dictator and I barely mentioned England or any son of Willem II. Are you sure you are not confusing my timeline with another one?
Yes I partly confused with your Anglo-Dutch union, nad partly with you post of this time line ''internal troubles''
A failed assoult on Amstrerdam turned very, very wrong for William II, it reads as a 180 degree turn, which is in my opinion not possible. Given the fact that William has an Army and is Stadholder of most of the States. A failed assault on a city as Amsterdam, even if it pat that time the most power full city state of that time, the magistrates of Amsterdam would never have the power to imprisson William II after a failed attack. Even if his army is crumbling appart.
A failed assoult on Amstrerdam turned very, very wrong for William II, it reads as a 180 degree turn, which is in my opinion not possible. Given the fact that William has an Army and is Stadholder of most of the States. A failed assault on a city as Amsterdam, even if it pat that time the most power full city state of that time, the magistrates of Amsterdam would never have the power to imprisson William II after a failed attack. Even if his army is crumbling appart.
Even though I haven't updated this timeline for a while, I recently got inspired to write something. Not a continuation of it, but more of an idea were it ends. It is mainly about the decolonisation during the twentieth century, which includes some ideas of what I was planning with it. I left some of it rather vague, as I have no idea about it. Maybe this will get me thinking about it again.
The end of the Dutch colonial empire
At the beginning of the 20th century the Dutch Republic had one of the larger colonial empires in Europe. Although not as large as the English or the French to which it respectively had lost their North American and Indian colonies, it had colonies all over the world. In the Americas there were New Holland, Dutch Guyana and the Dutch west Indies, in Africa the Dutch Gold coast and the Cape Colony, in Asia Ceylon, Java, Bali, Celebes and the Spice Islands and finally in Oceania it controlled the colony of New Gelre.
The end of this empire started after the first Great War in which a large part of the Republic had been occupied by the French. Although the Dutch army and its allies had managed to protect the more populated parts behind the waterline, it still lost a large part of their industrial and manpower, including major cities like Antwerp. As the Dutch navy, especially in combination with the allied English navy, was one of the strongest in the world, the Dutch colonies were relatively safe and they were used as a source of soldiers. At the start they mainly came from the Cape Colony and New Gelre, but after a couple years the Dutch decided to use native troops in the European theatre as well. Native troops were at first used merely in the protection of the colonies, but as most Dutch colonies were relatively far away from French colonies, with the obvious exceptions of Dutch Guyana, Ceylon and the West Indies, it was decided to sent troops from the safer areas to unoccupied Netherlands to help defend it. These troops existed mainly out of upper and middle class natives, whose families already worked for the Dutch and were offered full Dutch citizenship after the war had ended. Although a large group of these soldiers remained in the Netherlands after the war, most of them returned home, which was one of the major causes of emancipation within the colonies.
The results of this would not be seen in most colonies for decades, but in the Cape Colony this was not the case. The Cape Colony was unique within the Dutch colonies, unlike most colonies it had a large number of European inhabitants, but unlike the Netherlands (and new Gelre) it also had a large number of natives. Generally speaking the native population had less rights than the people of European descent, with people of mixed or non-European-non-African descent somewhere in the middle. During the first Great War the Dutch promised and gave full citizen rights for those natives that fought in the Netherlands itself, including the ones from the Cape Colony. When the Great War had ended, they refused to treat the native Africans who had fought in it as full citizens. This lead to Dutch interference, who decided to force the issue on the colony. The relations between the Cape and the home country had been deteriorating at the end of the 19th century with the abolishment of slavery, the refusal of transferring the rule of the Dutch Gold Coast to the Cape Colony and troubles over more autonomy for the Cape. The citizens of the Cape resisted the Dutch interference, violently. The people in the Cape Colony refused to acknowledge the Dutch authority and after a couple of kerfuffles proclaimed themselves independent. Although the Dutch sent in the military, the citizens of the Cape had the advantage in knowledge of the terrain. The conflict was extremely unpopular in the Netherlands, as they were still recovering from the Great War. Besides that there was some sympathy for the citizens of the Cape, but most just did not care about the Cape. They did not want to die for a cause they did not care for. This lead to a crisis in Dutch politics, leading to a collapse of the Dutch government and new elections. With a new Dutch government an agreement was reached between the Netherlands and the colony before it could turn into a full scale war and in 1921 the Cape Colony became an independent country: the Cape Republic.
To avoid the same thing happening with the Colony of New Gelre the Dutch government made a deal to give them a large degree of autonomy. Although the Dutch government would still remain in charge in various matters, including foreign affairs and military matters, this would be the first step towards independence, which New Gelre officially got in 1967.
To the other colonies this autonomy as not extended, as most had only a small population of full citizens, mainly people of European descent, but recently it included former soldiers. The Dutch government, after a long time neglect, had introduced a better form of education and started to develop the colonies in the late 19th century. The educated natives were often used as local military, civil servants, clerics and other important tasks that lacked the European manpower, but were still necessary for ruling the colonies. These people, especially the soldiers returning from Europe became the foundation of the independence movement. At first these were merely local groups who tried to gain more autonomy and investments, usually through legal means.
This changed after the second Great War. Although the Dutch had managed to remain neutral during it, the aftermath of it was felt also in the Dutch Republic. The French and English colonies in Asia revolted against their soon former masters. As both were quite exhausted after the war, they were not able to respond quickly and soon a full scale rebellion erupted. This rebellion spread in 1951 to the Dutch colonies, from India to Ceylon and and a year later from Sumatra first to Java, but quickly to Bali, Celebes and even the Spice Islands. Although the Dutch managed to crush the rebellion in the Spice Islands and Celebes relatively quickly, Java and Bali were a bigger problem. When in 1953 Sumatra became independent from England and started to support the Javanese rebels, the Dutch began to lose ground quickly. In 1954 Java became an independent nation, Bali and Ceylon became independent a year later and in 1959 the Spice Islands (as the Moluccan Islands) Celebes, besides the Christian northeast which was added to the mainly Christian Moluccan Islands.
The revolts in Asia set in motion a process of general decolonisation, including in the Dutch Republic. The other colonies were prepared for independence and in 1960 the Dutch Gold Coast became independent; in 1975 New Holland as Recife and in 1985 Dutch Guyana became two independent countries: former French Guyana (which the Dutch had gained from the French, together with St Maarten and St Bartolomeus after the first Great War) became Cayenne and the rest of Dutch Guyana became merely Guyana.
The independence of Guyana was rather controversial. According to some sources a majority of the people in Guyana (with the exception of Cayenne) had not actually wanted independence, but independence had been forced on them. Many Guyanese preferred living in the Netherlands than in their new independent country and moved en masse to Europe. Some estimate that Guyana lost ¼ of their population. This lead to a delay of the independence of the only Dutch colonies that were left: the Dutch West Indies, split in preparation of independence in three groups, which should have formed new countries: The Dutch Virgin Islands (Tortola, Virgin Gorda, St Thomas and and Jost van Dijk), The SSSS islands (St Maarten, Saba, St Eustatius and St Bartolomeus) and the ABC Islands (Aruba, Bonaire and Curacao). Although the official standpoint of the Dutch government is that these islands should become independent nations, this has been postponed until the inhabitants of the islands vote for independence in a referendum. So far roughly 60% prefers to remain part of the Dutch Republic.
The end of the Dutch colonial empire
At the beginning of the 20th century the Dutch Republic had one of the larger colonial empires in Europe. Although not as large as the English or the French to which it respectively had lost their North American and Indian colonies, it had colonies all over the world. In the Americas there were New Holland, Dutch Guyana and the Dutch west Indies, in Africa the Dutch Gold coast and the Cape Colony, in Asia Ceylon, Java, Bali, Celebes and the Spice Islands and finally in Oceania it controlled the colony of New Gelre.
The end of this empire started after the first Great War in which a large part of the Republic had been occupied by the French. Although the Dutch army and its allies had managed to protect the more populated parts behind the waterline, it still lost a large part of their industrial and manpower, including major cities like Antwerp. As the Dutch navy, especially in combination with the allied English navy, was one of the strongest in the world, the Dutch colonies were relatively safe and they were used as a source of soldiers. At the start they mainly came from the Cape Colony and New Gelre, but after a couple years the Dutch decided to use native troops in the European theatre as well. Native troops were at first used merely in the protection of the colonies, but as most Dutch colonies were relatively far away from French colonies, with the obvious exceptions of Dutch Guyana, Ceylon and the West Indies, it was decided to sent troops from the safer areas to unoccupied Netherlands to help defend it. These troops existed mainly out of upper and middle class natives, whose families already worked for the Dutch and were offered full Dutch citizenship after the war had ended. Although a large group of these soldiers remained in the Netherlands after the war, most of them returned home, which was one of the major causes of emancipation within the colonies.
The results of this would not be seen in most colonies for decades, but in the Cape Colony this was not the case. The Cape Colony was unique within the Dutch colonies, unlike most colonies it had a large number of European inhabitants, but unlike the Netherlands (and new Gelre) it also had a large number of natives. Generally speaking the native population had less rights than the people of European descent, with people of mixed or non-European-non-African descent somewhere in the middle. During the first Great War the Dutch promised and gave full citizen rights for those natives that fought in the Netherlands itself, including the ones from the Cape Colony. When the Great War had ended, they refused to treat the native Africans who had fought in it as full citizens. This lead to Dutch interference, who decided to force the issue on the colony. The relations between the Cape and the home country had been deteriorating at the end of the 19th century with the abolishment of slavery, the refusal of transferring the rule of the Dutch Gold Coast to the Cape Colony and troubles over more autonomy for the Cape. The citizens of the Cape resisted the Dutch interference, violently. The people in the Cape Colony refused to acknowledge the Dutch authority and after a couple of kerfuffles proclaimed themselves independent. Although the Dutch sent in the military, the citizens of the Cape had the advantage in knowledge of the terrain. The conflict was extremely unpopular in the Netherlands, as they were still recovering from the Great War. Besides that there was some sympathy for the citizens of the Cape, but most just did not care about the Cape. They did not want to die for a cause they did not care for. This lead to a crisis in Dutch politics, leading to a collapse of the Dutch government and new elections. With a new Dutch government an agreement was reached between the Netherlands and the colony before it could turn into a full scale war and in 1921 the Cape Colony became an independent country: the Cape Republic.
To avoid the same thing happening with the Colony of New Gelre the Dutch government made a deal to give them a large degree of autonomy. Although the Dutch government would still remain in charge in various matters, including foreign affairs and military matters, this would be the first step towards independence, which New Gelre officially got in 1967.
To the other colonies this autonomy as not extended, as most had only a small population of full citizens, mainly people of European descent, but recently it included former soldiers. The Dutch government, after a long time neglect, had introduced a better form of education and started to develop the colonies in the late 19th century. The educated natives were often used as local military, civil servants, clerics and other important tasks that lacked the European manpower, but were still necessary for ruling the colonies. These people, especially the soldiers returning from Europe became the foundation of the independence movement. At first these were merely local groups who tried to gain more autonomy and investments, usually through legal means.
This changed after the second Great War. Although the Dutch had managed to remain neutral during it, the aftermath of it was felt also in the Dutch Republic. The French and English colonies in Asia revolted against their soon former masters. As both were quite exhausted after the war, they were not able to respond quickly and soon a full scale rebellion erupted. This rebellion spread in 1951 to the Dutch colonies, from India to Ceylon and and a year later from Sumatra first to Java, but quickly to Bali, Celebes and even the Spice Islands. Although the Dutch managed to crush the rebellion in the Spice Islands and Celebes relatively quickly, Java and Bali were a bigger problem. When in 1953 Sumatra became independent from England and started to support the Javanese rebels, the Dutch began to lose ground quickly. In 1954 Java became an independent nation, Bali and Ceylon became independent a year later and in 1959 the Spice Islands (as the Moluccan Islands) Celebes, besides the Christian northeast which was added to the mainly Christian Moluccan Islands.
The revolts in Asia set in motion a process of general decolonisation, including in the Dutch Republic. The other colonies were prepared for independence and in 1960 the Dutch Gold Coast became independent; in 1975 New Holland as Recife and in 1985 Dutch Guyana became two independent countries: former French Guyana (which the Dutch had gained from the French, together with St Maarten and St Bartolomeus after the first Great War) became Cayenne and the rest of Dutch Guyana became merely Guyana.
The independence of Guyana was rather controversial. According to some sources a majority of the people in Guyana (with the exception of Cayenne) had not actually wanted independence, but independence had been forced on them. Many Guyanese preferred living in the Netherlands than in their new independent country and moved en masse to Europe. Some estimate that Guyana lost ¼ of their population. This lead to a delay of the independence of the only Dutch colonies that were left: the Dutch West Indies, split in preparation of independence in three groups, which should have formed new countries: The Dutch Virgin Islands (Tortola, Virgin Gorda, St Thomas and and Jost van Dijk), The SSSS islands (St Maarten, Saba, St Eustatius and St Bartolomeus) and the ABC Islands (Aruba, Bonaire and Curacao). Although the official standpoint of the Dutch government is that these islands should become independent nations, this has been postponed until the inhabitants of the islands vote for independence in a referendum. So far roughly 60% prefers to remain part of the Dutch Republic.