Renee could marry James V and keep the Auld Alliance going. I have other ideas, but I need breakfast first.
To come back to this... Margaret Douglas could well end up marrying a northern English noble to keep peace in the Borders. Perhaps a Percy, if Henry Percy manages a son ITTL. Otherwise her OTL husband would probably still work.In Scotland, Margaret Tudor, now the Countess of Angus, has a daughter (Margaret Douglas) born in Oct 1515 (not to mention her son the King: James V born April 1512); Marie Tudor, now Dowager Queen of France and Regent for Charles IX, has both Renee of France (born Oct 1515) and her own daughter Elisabeth of France (born March 1517). We've got Hal (Jan 1511), John (1513), Mary Katherine (Feb 1516) in England. Charles V (Feb 1500) is the Duke of Burgundy since 1506, King of Spain (Castile and Aragon) since 1516 and, if things hold, he'll be HRE in 1519.
Can I get some suggestions about marital options for these (among themselves or with others)? Renee and Hal were once engaged, but that broke up with James IV started a war when H8 is overseas.
Does anyone else have (in an opinion) a chance of being HRE?
I've already got a TL where Anne wed Percy, so that's not gonna happen. The king is interested in the match and he's not going to fall for Anne, so he won't want it stopped. Anne is going to Ireland. Where she may be happier to reign in Hell than serve in Heaven, to steal a line from Milton. You never know, she may find bringing court manners/customs to Ireland and being regarded as an example of the good wife better than being a small fry in a small court. Remember, Henry has two sons now, doesn't have the end goal he had when he went after Anne.The point is who that match failed pretty soon for reasons who had nothing to do with Anne or Henry VIII… Anne being able to marry Percy in a way or the other is a likelier outcome (as neither the Boleyns or the Butlers were so interested in that match)… Else Anne can end married to another noble in the English court
I meant other world events, other political events, places being built etc. If you have not mentioned them as changed can we presume they still happened as OTL E.g the fall of Cairo to the Ottomans, or the building of Hampton Court?Okay, I'll bite: if H8 has (at current) TWO living sons, how can everything still happen as OTL?
Renée was born in 1510.Renee of France (born Oct 1515)
This...she would be better off with Henry and Katherine's 1511 son if need be...Renée was born in 1510.
Would you believe it was a deliberate mistake to see if anyone was paying attention and not me getting ahead of myself typing? No? Me neither.Renée was born in 1510.
Uh, I'm not worried about Cairo, since it doesn't involve Hal, John, or Mary Katherine. Hampton Court, so far as I know, is going up. (I can't cover every little detail, just the ones that matter to the TL.) However, if suddenly read about Hampton Court burning to the ground, that means I needed it gone. So, yeah, it's happening (unless the gaming dice at another point decide something else. But I'm not big on things. I'm into the people and the interactions.I meant other world events, other political events, places being built etc. If you have not mentioned them as changed can we presume they still happened as OTL E.g the fall of Cairo to the Ottomans, or the building of Hampton Court?
I'm thinking Katherine Willoughby (OTL Duchess of Suffolk) would make an excellent Duchess of York as John's bride here.We've got Hal (Jan 1511), John (1513), Mary Katherine (Feb 1516) in England.
Margaret Douglas can marry high into English nobility, probably to a Northern lord, her brother James will probably marry a French princess, either Renée or his little cousin Élisabeth.Can I get some suggestions about marital options for these (among themselves or with others)?
Mary, born 1516, can wed Francis III Duke of BrittanyMargaret Douglas can marry high into English nobility, probably to a Northern lord, her brother James will probably marry a French princess, either Renée or his little cousin Élisabeth.
Prince Henry can be paired with Charles V’s younger sister Catherine of Austria (b. 1507) or a surviving Maria of Portugal (b. 1511) a daughter of Manuel I and Maria of Aragon. His mother would surely approve of both girls.
For John, a minor princess would, like Isabella of Navarre (b. 1512), Marie de Guise (b. 1515), Marie de Bourbon and heiresses Anne Bourchier (b. 1517) or Katherine Willoughby (b. 1519).
For Mary, I’d propose Charles of France, James of Scotland or John of Denmark (b. 1518), son of Christian II, if his father can avoid being deposed.
Lady Grey?Two men at dice:
"I've heard naught of your wedding plans, Charles," said the King to the Duke of Suffolk. "Isn't it time you claimed Lady Grey as your own?"
Charles shook his head as he rolled. "She's not yet begun her woman's bleeding. To tell the truth Majesty, I've got my eyes set on another. She's full grown, beautiful and a gracious woman."
"Oh?" The King stopped short of rolling. "And who is this lucky woman?"
"Mary Boleyn, the older of Sir Thomas' daughters. We've talked and I think she prefers me to that William Carey her father's looking at. But he and I are not always friends, and I'm not sure he'd be pleased with me as a son-in-law."
Henry rolled. "You do not find Lady Grey worth waiting for?" He frowned at the result of the throw."
"I want a son to follow me, like you. For that, like you, I need a woman. She's a child yet. She has the figure of a child yet. If she were to don breeches and cut her hair, she'd make me a great page." Both men chuckled and Charles continued, "Mary has a woman's curves, a pleasant countenance, and soothing words. Who would want a boy compared to that?"
"I think we can both think of several here at court," Henry replied, laughing heartily. Charles joined in. Henry continued. "I'll ask her majesty if Lady Mary would prefer you to any others. If she gives a pleasant answer, I shall talk to Sir Thomas. He will prefer a Duke to a gentleman of the court, I'm sure. Perhaps Will Carey would like to be a Viscount, even if he has to wait for a wedding night."
Charles nodded. "From your lips to God's ears." The pair continued dicing.
Elizabeth Grey would be know as Lady Lisle NOT lady GreyTwo men at dice:
"I've heard naught of your wedding plans, Charles," said the King to the Duke of Suffolk. "Isn't it time you claimed Lady Grey as your own?"
Charles shook his head as he rolled. "She's not yet begun her woman's bleeding. To tell the truth Majesty, I've got my eyes set on another. She's full grown, beautiful and a gracious woman."
"Oh?" The King stopped short of rolling. "And who is this lucky woman?"
"Mary Boleyn, the older of Sir Thomas' daughters. We've talked and I think she prefers me to that William Carey her father's looking at. But he and I are not always friends, and I'm not sure he'd be pleased with me as a son-in-law."
Henry rolled. "You do not find Lady Grey worth waiting for?" He frowned at the result of the throw."
"I want a son to follow me, like you. For that, like you, I need a woman. She's a child yet. She has the figure of a child yet. If she were to don breeches and cut her hair, she'd make me a great page." Both men chuckled and Charles continued, "Mary has a woman's curves, a pleasant countenance, and soothing words. Who would want a boy compared to that?"
"I think we can both think of several here at court," Henry replied, laughing heartily. Charles joined in. Henry continued. "I'll ask her majesty if Lady Mary would prefer you to any others. If she gives a pleasant answer, I shall talk to Sir Thomas. He will prefer a Duke to a gentleman of the court, I'm sure. Perhaps Will Carey would like to be a Viscount, even if he has to wait for a wedding night."
Charles nodded. "From your lips to God's ears." The pair continued dicing.
Elizabeth Grey, Viscountess Lisle, (1505-1519). Charles Brandon's ward and erstwhile fiancee.Lady Grey?
Oh, her.Elizabeth Grey, Viscountess Lisle, (1505-1519). Charles Brandon's ward and erstwhile fiancee.
Charles and Mary Boleyn? There's a pair I've never considered, but am very much looking forward to hearing more about!
Fixed, milady.Elizabeth Grey would be know as Lady Lisle NOT lady Grey