The Heirs of Henry VIII and Katherine
- Thread starter desmirelle
- Start date
Sorry but I still think it’s completely unrealistic for the legitimate daughter of a Portuguese king to marry a second son…just not done
Maria Manuela had only a brother and so her possible inheritance of the Portuguese crown was quite strong but we are NOT talking about her and her line NEVER got the Portuguese’s crown as her only child died without heirs before her nephew
Neither of them particularly likely but they are better than Margaret Howard so they can get a roll each
I always do that. I keep forgetting it's via Isabella, not Maria. Nonetheless, a Portuguese marriage could be beneficial to England. Especially if they pay Portugal well enough.
Portugal would want any girl they send off to be the queen (whether current or future), not duchess of York...
Would they get that though? If not, would they risk Spain possibly getting the Portuguese throne in some way?
Manuel’s younger daughters are totally irrelevant for the succession and Portugal has little to gain sending one of their Princesses to be Duchess of York, specially when France has a young King who could be a match for the same princess (1513 Maria would be four years older, Maria of Viseu four years younger)
I've said it before and I'll say it again. Anthony Woodville/Mary of Burgundy. It wasn't a necessarily serious proposal OTL, but it was a proposal. In light of that, John of York/a Portuguese infanta looks eminently sensible. It doesn't have to be his final match, but as a childhood betrothal? It works just fine.
Mary of Burgundy was an heiress. Heiresses did not necessarily need husbands who were already super powerful and prestigious, and in fact sometimes it works out better when they marry someone like Anthony Woodville. Haven't changed my mind on a Portuguese infanta as duchess of York.
Mary of Burgundy to Anthony Woodville, who was Earl Rivers and brother-in-law of the King of England and a good commander was far from being a proposal without sense, specially around 1474-1475 when Edward’s brothers were both married and Anthony widowed (and in any case Edward had excellent reasons for NOT trusting George for a match with the heiress of Burgundy)
Agreed and I also continue to see that match extremely unlikely (for the 1513 Maria. No way in the hell for Maria of Viseu)
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The only Portuguese girl would be a butterflied 1513 Maria.
But: Anne Parr [Katheryn's sister], Margaret or Bridget or Maud Vaux [daughters of Nicholas Vaux and 2nd wife Anne Green]?
But: Anne Parr [Katheryn's sister], Margaret or Bridget or Maud Vaux [daughters of Nicholas Vaux and 2nd wife Anne Green]?
None of them is likely but they are not unlikelier than Margaret Howard so I guess they can get a roll each…
@desmirelle updated list of possible brides for John
Likeliest choices (extra rolls for both)
Anne Bourchier (she was her father’s heiress presumptive)
Katherine Howard (Norfolk’s eldest daughter, she would get a great dowry and has a very prestigious ascendency)
Unlikely but possible
Anne Stanhope (a decent heiress with good relationship with the Court, but more than two years older than John, likely 4/5 years older)
Catherine de Medici (niece of the Pope and the Duke of Albany, her family is barely of noble rank but on her mother‘s side she is a French heiress with good lands)
Longshot (only one entry each)
Anna or Amalia of Cleves (they would bring a decent dowry and foreign alliance, but neither England or Cleves have reasons for being much interested ATL and the Duke is far likelier to search a ruler/heir than the second son of a king, specially one with John’s reputation)
Margaret Howard: daughter of an Howard cadet, without money, need to be an elopement or a shotgun wedding
Maria of Portugal (born 1513): extremely unlikely who her brother would be willing to marry her off to a simple Duke of York, specially when he can try to marry her to the King of France
Katherine Parr: a little old, not a great dory, but she lived a court
Anne Parr: unlikely match, but at least Anne Parr lived at court….
Margaret or Bridget or Maud Vaux: unlikely matches, but if you want them…
Likeliest choices (extra rolls for both)
Anne Bourchier (she was her father’s heiress presumptive)
Katherine Howard (Norfolk’s eldest daughter, she would get a great dowry and has a very prestigious ascendency)
Unlikely but possible
Anne Stanhope (a decent heiress with good relationship with the Court, but more than two years older than John, likely 4/5 years older)
Catherine de Medici (niece of the Pope and the Duke of Albany, her family is barely of noble rank but on her mother‘s side she is a French heiress with good lands)
Longshot (only one entry each)
Anna or Amalia of Cleves (they would bring a decent dowry and foreign alliance, but neither England or Cleves have reasons for being much interested ATL and the Duke is far likelier to search a ruler/heir than the second son of a king, specially one with John’s reputation)
Margaret Howard: daughter of an Howard cadet, without money, need to be an elopement or a shotgun wedding
Maria of Portugal (born 1513): extremely unlikely who her brother would be willing to marry her off to a simple Duke of York, specially when he can try to marry her to the King of France
Katherine Parr: a little old, not a great dory, but she lived a court
Anne Parr: unlikely match, but at least Anne Parr lived at court….
Margaret or Bridget or Maud Vaux: unlikely matches, but if you want them…
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She is already in the line up. I've got enough 'options' for Prince John, so the nominations are closed.
She was not, the Katherine in that list was Norfolk’s daughter but I added her together with her sister and cousins… Tell me is our lists are the same o I missed some other name
Yes, I edited the list in that post for including her after reading your post…