The Heinkel He 100 is put into production

What if the Luftwaffe and RLM had put He 100 fighter into production albeit after some changes and saw action over France?

Just how hard will it for Britain to counter the He 100?
What improvements and marks would there be for the He 100?
Would the FW 190 still be created?
What kind of reputation and legacy would the German fighter have/leave?
 
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What if the Luftwaffe and RLM had put He 100 fighter into production albeit after some changes and saw action over France?

(1)Just how hard will it for Britain to counter the He 100?
(2)What improvements and marks would there be for the He 100?
(3)Would the FW 190 still be created?
(4)What kind of reputation and legacy would the German have/leave?

1 - With OTL fighters in service in 1940 - Spitfires stand some chance, Whirlwind too, Hurricanes are in deep problems. With Spitfire III (prototype was made before BoB, 400 mph unarmed), Spitfires with 2-stage engines, Typhoon - can do.
2 - Better engines as they became available (DB 601N, 601E, 605A), belt-fed cannon when available. Radiators in leading edge extensions (= surface cooling eliminated, slightly increased wing area). Bigger wing for more fuel or more cannons.
3 - Hopefully, me likes Fw 190 :)
4 - Mix between Bf 109 and Fw 190.
 

Driftless

Donor
Handsome aircraft. Wasn't part of the part of the selection of the Bf-109 over the He-100/113 political (Willy Messerschmitt v. Ernst Heinkel) and part the manufacturability differences between the two planes? I believe I've read that the Heinkel was more complex to make, so time and cost got factored in. Was that really the case and was it significant, or was that the "out" that was used for choosing the 109?
 

NoMommsen

Donor
Most likely you talk about the second batch of the 25 by Heinkel on his own account produced He-100 "D" variant, production numbers D-020 to D-025, equiped with 'normal sized permanent' cooler instead of the surface cooling with retractable auxillary cooler for take-off, the first batch, D-01 to D-019 were made alike.

WITH surface cooling german fighters would be ... clay pigeons as a vital system would constitute the largest thinkable target area. One shot and you would have to look for an emergency landing or bail-out place as in 10-20 (at best) minutes your engine would be without aany cooling at all.

But it would have to proove itself - aside the world-speed-record stunt - and has to be compared against the then german 'standard' fighter its production just having started :
the Me-109 E or famed "Emil".
Max speed : He-100 D
Range : He-100 D
Agility : more or less on par, maybe sligtly better Me-109 E (wee larger windspan and wing area)
Ceiling : more or less on par (11.000m He-100 D against 10.500m Me-109 E)
Armament : Me-109 E (in 19139 : He-100 D 1x20mm plus 2x7,92mm or 15,1mm, Me-109 E 2x20mm plus 2x 7,92mm, though on par with the following Me-109 F)​

So, in 1939 the He-100 D had the performance of the not even yet thought about follow-up model Me-109 F.


Aside from Görings personel problems with Heinkel and his and therefore the RLMs (almost ?) doctrinal unwillingness to let Heinkel produce fighter-crafts ... and the "problems" of setting up mass-production lines for a new fighter craft with the war already starting/going on (only "sensible" way would have been building completly new line while keeping on with the production of further Me-109, maybe 'forcing' Heinkel to pay for this production facility from his personal wealth ... as 'punishment') ...

Let's assume the He-100 D with the 'normal' cooler is accepted by the RLM (and Göring for whatwever almost asb-ish reasons). Consrtruction of a production facility is allowed at about September 1939.
The 5 IOTL built - lets call them "D-1s" - would undergo a thorough 'Rechlin-testing and with another maybe 25 numbers batch of preproduction "D-1s" join some field assessment-unit along the franco-german border as well as the scandinavian campaign at the change of 1939 to 1940.

Meanwhile a/the 1st production line/facility starts throwing out production models "D-2s" or perhaps even "He-100 Es" (?) in May/June 1940 (setting up such workshop barracks for airframes on the 'green field' didn't took much longer in the midth to late thirties, all other components came from ... subcontractors).
There might be some changes already in this model, maybe to the radiator type and its fitting/lining into the airframe, maybe another weapons-scheme (4 or even 5 MD 151/15 with more ammo ?), maybe some changes to armour-scheme (?), some other, different subcomponents ? Maybe due to test-pilot hints a bit enlarge wingspan and area, increasing agility ?

As often with the 'switch' from test to production there will be some loss of power-to-mass ratio and therefore speed.
But such a He-100 E will still - with around 600 km/h - outpace a Spitfire Mk I and be at least on par with a Mk II and being at least on par with both in terms of agility. With other engines 'in-the-pipe' as with the Mk III the He-100 will at least keep up with the former.
It will have a greater range as the Me-109 and therefore be able to stay longer in combat while sporting a heavier weaponry than its opponents.

Harder times for fighter command.
German bombers better escorted deper into Britain.

But ... we all know that Britain will OFC know long before about a will be fully able to improve the Spit and all other measures and means long before the first He-100 E might show up so that it would have no effect at all.

The Fw-190 would IMO still be created, as it exploits a different engine concept and was ordered exactly for that. A He-100 in swervice would not chnage that.
 
Handsome aircraft. Wasn't part of the part of the selection of the Bf-109 over the He-100/113 political (Willy Messerschmitt v. Ernst Heinkel) and part the manufacturability differences between the two planes? I believe I've read that the Heinkel was more complex to make, so time and cost got factored in. Was that really the case and was it significant, or was that the "out" that was used for choosing the 109?

RLM blame them for throwing out the FW 187 falcon in favour for inferior me 110. Germany shot themselves in foot on many technological fronts.
 
Handsome aircraft. Wasn't part of the part of the selection of the Bf-109 over the He-100/113 political (Willy Messerschmitt v. Ernst Heinkel) and part the manufacturability differences between the two planes? I believe I've read that the Heinkel was more complex to make, so time and cost got factored in. Was that really the case and was it significant, or was that the "out" that was used for choosing the 109?

Handsome aircraft indeed.
It was He 112 that lost vs. Bf 109, the 109 offering better performance on same engine.
He 100 was a whole different aircraft vs. He 112, but it came about later than the Bf 109 started being manufactured. Lack of DB 601 engines most likely killed the He 100, the Fw 190 was accepted because it was supposed to use a 14 cyl BMW 139 (and later used the BMW 801).

RLM blame them for throwing out the FW 187 falcon in favour for inferior me 110. Germany shot themselves in foot on many technological fronts.

RLM indeed made their fair share of mistakes. The Fw 187 was performing no worse than Bf 110C on just 2/3rds of engine power.
On the other hand, Bf 110 featured a big radio as used on bombers (important when cooperation with bombers is required at 500+ km from base), dedicated radioman, that also changed empty ammo drums for cannons with full ones. So, in the RLM eyes, the Bf 110 probably suited their needs better?
 
On the other hand, Bf 110 featured a big radio as used on bombers (important when cooperation with bombers is required at 500+ km from base), dedicated radioman, that also changed empty ammo drums for cannons with full ones. So, in the RLM eyes, the Bf 110 probably suited their needs better?

Then there's that the 110 was good at night fighting and other theatres like the early eastern front, north Africa and the Mediterranean.
 
Well one of the reasons it wasn't adopted in OTL was the serious issues Daimler were having producing the DB 601, an engine the Heinkel shared with the Bf109 so that will have knock on impacts
 
The real reasons for its cancellation is largely lost to time but one of the issues was production of the DB 601 Engines which production as already struggling with meeting the orders for the ME109 and ME110

Due to this issue production of the engine was limited to these 2 designs and I suspect this was the end of the HE 100 with the focus instead made on the FW190 using a different engine (BMW Radial) and Heinkel focusing on its Bombers.

Given the expectation of impending war I feel it makes sense to focus on the more mature ME109 and ME110 designs.

Charming looking plane though

So in answer to the OP

Just how hard will it for Britain to counter the He 100? Well they managed every challenge pretty well - don't see why not this one
What improvements and marks would there be for the He 100? Similair to the 109 I would imagine
Would the FW 190 still be created? Yes as above the demand for the DB601 would make the BMW radial powered FW190 very atractive - even if it was jsut as a replacement for the JU87
What kind of reputation and legacy would the German have/leave? Slightly better 109 (I imagine easier to land etc) not as robust as a FW190
 
The battle of Britain will be much harder with fights going all way to London.

The hurricane Mark 1 will have its work cut out for it IIRC the hurricanes top speed was 511-520 KMH against the 600+ KMH of the HE 100.

It's landing gear orientation means more pilots survive rather than crashing.
 
I had the notion that the Heinkel might get developed toward the niche carrier-based fighter freeing the Me109 to become the principal interceptor without an orphaned divergence. For me the Me110 is best suited to being developed as an escort fighter and heavy fighter/night fighter to tackle bombers as the Me109s strip off fighter protection over Germany, the Fw190 seems better suited to an air-superiority fighter covering the battlefield and later getting adapted into a carrier fighter and fighter-bomber. To me the Fw190 looks better suited to carrier use and could be a multi-purpose aircraft, fighter bomber or fighter torpedo, giving the navy a far better air frame than the Me109, and vaguely I see the Heinkel in the same light but still a potential dead-end. For me it was the "best" path to keep the Heinkel under development and give it some life beyond prototype.

As an aside I was contemplating the Air Force doing something other than the He111, freeing the DBs and hopefully accelerating radial powered twin bombers, likely focusing on the Do217 and Ju88 only. Of course I am using these as analogues in my own ATL for rough guides on aircraft. For me it makes Heinkel a partner with the Navy in development and perhaps later a specialist in ejection seats akin to Martin-Baker. I have Heinkel partner with Focke-Wulf to lead navalization of the Fw190 and align them for merger in future, creating a competitor to Junkers in civil aviation as an ATL German industry consolidates.
 

Germany never really got around to making an aircraft carrier or even converted merchantman. Simply because of politics or Germany's leader loving big cannons and no faith in the surface navy.

There was an me 109T a carrier based fighter it rarely saw action if any before being changed for the horrible 'Gustav' variant.
 
Germany never really got around to making an aircraft carrier or even converted merchantman. Simply because of politics or Germany's leader loving big cannons and no faith in the surface navy.

There was an me 109T a carrier based fighter it rarely saw action if any before being changed for the horrible 'Gustav' variant.
The graf zeplin was near completion, but was never finished. Because the war situation changed.
The 109t fought in norway.

Both the bf109 and the fw190 would have been horrible carier fighters, the 109 because of the weak undercariage and the 190 because of its landingspeed above 200kmh.
 
The graf zeplin was near completion, but was never finished. Because the war situation changed.
The 109t fought in norway.

Both the bf109 and the fw190 would have been horrible carier fighters, the 109 because of the weak undercariage and the 190 because of its landingspeed above 200kmh.

Huh.....

I thought the 109T was scrapped and didn't see action other than patrols.

In regards to carrier fighters that would leave the HE 100 fighter to be that fighter.
 
I thought the 109T was scrapped and didn't see action other than patrols
Well besides the first weaks after the invasion, all the 109t did was patroling as the british werent all that interested in norway, as they had other bigger problems. And when the allies got to norway the 109t was alredy hoplessly outdated.
 
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