the habsburg and valois unite

In 1490 philip the son of maximilian and mary the rich dies leaving as duchess of the burgundian territories his sister margaret. Realizing that his betrothed is much more valuable than anne of brittany charles viii decides to keep true to his betrothal and not go after anne. They are married in 1494 just before charles goes of to war and she is left pregnant. She gives birth to a healthy baby boy. Charles comes back from war as in otl but does not hit his head letting him live till 1519. And while he and margaret do have more children all the younger boys die as children leaving only adult sisters for his eldest son charles.

While charles is preparing for his next italian campaign scheduled for 1500 two things happen. First he buys the claim to the duchy of milan from his cousin louis. And second his father in law after years of trying to replace his male heir and failing is declared unable to have children by his doctors. So he decides to make his grandson his heir on 3 conditions. First he'll marry a hungarian princess when vladislaus ii produces one. Second the valois will add habsburg to there name. And third for hapsburg support in the Italy all the territory conquered by the french in Italy between the duchy of milan and the kingdom of naples will be given to maximilian and even those two territories he'll hold as a vassal to maximilian. If these terms are accepted maximilian will give the habsburg dynastic lands to his grandson and will try to get the electors to make the boy maximilian's successor as holy roman emperor. Knowing this is too big of an opportunity to pass up charles viii accepts.

So with a combined habsburg french army charles basically conquers all of italy even kicking the spanish out of sicily and sardinia over 10 years with the spanish giving up all claims to any italian territory. The pope even acknowledges maximilians superiority over him and gives him the papal states.

Charles viii son grows up to be a genius. He has great military and administrative ability and boundless energy and charisma. His personality is like that of ferdinand I of otl. He runs France from the age of 20 with his father living in retirement. In 1519 after marrying anne of hungary his father, grandfather and brother in law louis ii of hungary all die within weeks of each other. As the dauphin he succedes his father as king of france and succeeds his grandfather as holy roman emperor with massive bribes. In louis ii lands he is able to bribe his way onto louis three thornes. That election leaves him massive debt

How does charles IX handle all the problems of his reign. Can he handle Germany where he's viewed as French? How about protestantism? And his massive debt both accumulated by him and inherited from his father's italian wars? What about foreign powers like the ottomans? What about spain who is united with portugal thanks to butterflies and whose king is getting rich off trade from the indies and the new world while being bitter about losing all of the italian territory and claims to charles VIII. Can england still be a threat to this behemoth of an empire that has many more pressing enemies it must face? And lastly can Charles IX pass on his empire to one son or does it have to be divided amongst his sons sons? Also what would be the logical choice for Charles official capital? He would have to move around alot to properly govern but he would probably have an official capital. So where would it make most sense?
 
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Sorry but if the king of France has an only son, he will never ever ever ever accept that his only direct heir by Salic Law be raised in Austria by his maternal grandfather. The only way this can happen is if Charles VIII was made prisoner and forced to give his son as hostage in order to recover his own freedom. And when this happened to OTL Francis I, he retained one of his 3 sons in France in order to secure a direct heir for the crown of France.

Charles VIII will less even do it that Maximilian is but hereditary duke of Austria and of other OTL Austria provinces. There is no guarantee at all that Maximilian's heir will succeed him as holy roman emperor since this crown is elective.

For this kind of agreement of having the common heir raised by the maternal grandfather to be possible, you need the latter to be much more powerful than the father's side.

The rest of your POD is very interesting.

One point you may not have thought about is that Charles VIII was not very clever and that It may have been an opportunity for France that he died 28 years old.
 
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Sorry but if the king of France has an only son, he will never ever ever ever accept that his only direct heir by Salic Law be raised in Austria by his maternal grandfather. The only way this can happen is if Charles VIII was made prisoner and forced to give his son as hostage in order to recover his own freedom. And when this happened to OTL Francis I, he retained one of his 3 sons in France in order to secure a direct heir for the crown of France.

Charles VIII will less even do it that Maximilian is but hereditary duke of Austria and of other OTL Austria provinces. There is no guarantee at all that Maximilian's heir will succeed him as holy roman emperor since this crown is elective.

For this kind of agreement of having the common heir raised by the maternal grandfather to be possible, you need the latter to be much more powerful than the father's side.

The rest of your POD is very interesting.

One point you may not have thought about is that Charles VIII was not very clever and that It may have been an opportunity for France that he died 28 years old.
Okay then i'll remove the fostering aspect then. Also charles basically had luck on his side during his conquest of italy. And most of the actual ruling is done by his wife.
 
one big ugly inbreed family rules the Europe for ages
upload_2016-8-1_18-16-48.png
 

Is this guy's face uglier than the Windsors, the current Bourbons, Saxe-Coburg, Habsburgs, Savoy, Bush and Clintons ?

I don't think so.

Now, I think that a dynastic union between France and the Habsburg possessions in the HRE will be much weaker and crumbling than an alliance between France and the iberic kingdoms.

The HRE was a blackhole. The whole France-HRE will lack the common latin cultural background that existed between Italy, France and Spain. And there Will be the religious divide, beginning in 1517, that is before the union, that will cause most of the german States to turn protestant in order to try to stress, maintain and retain their independance from the french.
 
Charles VIII of France (b.1470: d.1519) m. Margaret, Duchess of Burgundy (b.1480: d.1530)

1a) Charles IX of France, Duke of Burgundy (b.1495: d.1548) m. Mary Tudor (b.1496: d.1522) (a) m. Margaret de Angouleme (b.1492: d.1549) (b)

1a) Henri de Valois, Dauphin of France (b.1513: d.1531)

2a) Louise de Valois (b.1516)

3a) Francis I of France (b.1520)

4a) Charles de Valois, Duke of Anjou (b.1521)

5b) Jeanne de Valois (b.1525)​

2a) Miscarriage (c.1499)

3a) Marie de Valois (b.1500: d.1567) m. Francis III, Duke of Brittany (b.1500: d.1524) (a), Francis de Valois, Count of Angouleme (b.1494: d.1547) (b)

1b) Francis de Valois, Count of Angouleme (b.1530)

2b) Miscarriage (c.1532)

3b) Jeanne de Valois (b.1535)​

4a) Louis de Valois, Duke of Anjou (b.1503: d.1507)

5a) Anne de Valois (b.1506: d.1510)

6a) Charlotte de Valois (b.1508) m. Henry II of Navarre (b.1502: d.1555) (a)

1a) Margaret of Navarre (b.1526: d.1530)

2a) Henri III of Navarre (b.1530)

3a) Miscarriage (c.1535)​

7a) Stillborn Son (c.1510)

8a) Peter de Valois, Duke of Anjou (b.1511: d.1513)

9a) Miscarriage (c.1515)
Anne, Duchess of Brittany (b.1477: d.1514) m. John IV of Chalon-Arlay (b.1443: d.1502) (a), Louis, Duke of Orleans (b.1462: d.1515) (b)

1a) Miscarriage (c.1495)

2a) Margaret of Brittany (b.1497: d.1500)

3a) Francis III, Duke of Brittany (b.1500: d.1524) m. Marie de Valois (b.1500: d.1567) (a)

4a) Miscarriage (c.1502)

5b) Claude I, Duchess of Brittany (b.1505: d.1528) m. Francis de Valois, Count of Angouleme (b.1494: d.1547) (a)

1a) Anne II, Duchess of Brittany (b.1521)

2a) Charles de Valois (b.1524: d.1528)

3a) Miscarriage (c.1525)

4a) Margaret de Valois (b.1528)​

6b) Miscarriage (c.1507)

7b) Miscarriage (c.1510)

8b) Marie de Valois (b.1511: d.1512)

9b) Renee de Valois (b.1513: d.1515)​
 
Is this guy's face uglier than the Windsors, the current Bourbons, Saxe-Coburg, Habsburgs, Savoy, Bush and Clintons ?

I don't think so.
Did I try to compare this guy to a ruling dynasty?

I don't think so.

Sometimes a little humor can be a welcome break. Sorry if it flew over your head.
 
Did I try to compare this guy to a ruling dynasty?

I don't think so.

Sometimes a little humor can be a welcome break. Sorry if it flew over your head.

Why can't you see humoriste on my side if you are aware of your own humorous purpose ? There can be both humor and accuracy in a statement. That was my intent.

The royal inbred dynasties produced many ugly faced. And there are quite many ugly faces in the current political dynasties of western democracies.

Greetings
 
And I am in full agreement that there can be both accuracy and humor in a statement. Must have been the lack of coffee...
 
Charles VIII of France (b.1470: d.1519) m. Margaret, Duchess of Burgundy (b.1480: d.1530)

1a) Charles IX of France, Duke of Burgundy (b.1495: d.1548) m. Mary Tudor (b.1496: d.1522) (a) m. Margaret de Angouleme (b.1492: d.1549) (b)

1a) Henri de Valois, Dauphin of France (b.1513: d.1531)

2a) Louise de Valois (b.1516)

3a) Francis I of France (b.1520)

4a) Charles de Valois, Duke of Anjou (b.1521)

5b) Jeanne de Valois (b.1525)​
2a) Miscarriage (c.1499)

3a) Marie de Valois (b.1500: d.1567) m. Francis III, Duke of Brittany (b.1500: d.1524) (a), Francis de Valois, Count of Angouleme (b.1494: d.1547) (b)

1b) Francis de Valois, Count of Angouleme (b.1530)

2b) Miscarriage (c.1532)

3b) Jeanne de Valois (b.1535)​
4a) Louis de Valois, Duke of Anjou (b.1503: d.1507)

5a) Anne de Valois (b.1506: d.1510)

6a) Charlotte de Valois (b.1508) m. Henry II of Navarre (b.1502: d.1555) (a)

1a) Margaret of Navarre (b.1526: d.1530)

2a) Henri III of Navarre (b.1530)

3a) Miscarriage (c.1535)​
7a) Stillborn Son (c.1510)

8a) Peter de Valois, Duke of Anjou (b.1511: d.1513)

9a) Miscarriage (c.1515)​
Anne, Duchess of Brittany (b.1477: d.1514) m. John IV of Chalon-Arlay (b.1443: d.1502) (a), Louis, Duke of Orleans (b.1462: d.1515) (b)

1a) Miscarriage (c.1495)

2a) Margaret of Brittany (b.1497: d.1500)

3a) Francis III, Duke of Brittany (b.1500: d.1524) m. Marie de Valois (b.1500: d.1567) (a)

4a) Miscarriage (c.1502)

5b) Claude I, Duchess of Brittany (b.1505: d.1528) m. Francis de Valois, Count of Angouleme (b.1494: d.1547) (a)

1a) Anne II, Duchess of Brittany (b.1521)

2a) Charles de Valois (b.1524: d.1528)

3a) Miscarriage (c.1525)

4a) Margaret de Valois (b.1528)​
6b) Miscarriage (c.1507)

7b) Miscarriage (c.1510)

8b) Marie de Valois (b.1511: d.1512)

9b) Renee de Valois (b.1513: d.1515)​
Um charles IX marries a hungarian princess as per my op
LOL
 
Is this guy's face uglier than the Windsors, the current Bourbons, Saxe-Coburg, Habsburgs, Savoy, Bush and Clintons ?

I don't think so.

Now, I think that a dynastic union between France and the Habsburg possessions in the HRE will be much weaker and crumbling than an alliance between France and the iberic kingdoms.

The HRE was a blackhole. The whole France-HRE will lack the common latin cultural background that existed between Italy, France and Spain. And there Will be the religious divide, beginning in 1517, that is before the union, that will cause most of the german States to turn protestant in order to try to stress, maintain and retain their independance from the french.
Interesting. Anything more specific to add?
 
The Habsburgs did unite with a Valois branch, Valois-Burgundy, and they continued quite a number of their traditions and institutions, most prominently the Order of the Golden Fleece. A unification between the main Valois branch and the house of Habsburg is unlikely, but like the historic union between the Habsburgs and Trastamaras, it could happen by chance in a 'dynastic lottery'.
 
The Habsburgs did unite with a Valois branch, Valois-Burgundy, and they continued quite a number of their traditions and institutions, most prominently the Order of the Golden Fleece. A unification between the main Valois branch and the house of Habsburg is unlikely, but like the historic union between the Habsburgs and Trastamaras, it could happen by chance in a 'dynastic lottery'.
Like I have in the op the valois-habsburgs win it
 
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