The Guns of the Tawantinsuya

[Historico]

Overall, things are progressing along the lines of OTL in North America. There have been some minor changes in North America. For example, since Hernando DeSoto was killed along with Pizzaro in Peru, he never lead his march through the Southeast which spread disease which devastated the native peoples there. But then, just a few years later, Spanish missionaries moving north from Florida introduced the same diseases into the population, and it had much the same result, just a few years later. Elsewhere, it's pretty much as in OTL.

I don't really see the existence of the Tawantinsuyu Empire in South America affecting things much in North America, at least not so much as to derail the eventual emergence of the United States.

In what would become Alabama, this first European governor confronted
his most determined resistance, led by Chief Tuscaloosa. The Spanish
soldiers were ambushed at the native town of Mavilla in southcentral
Alabama. In a pitched battle, Tuscaloosa's warriors inflicted heavy
casualties on the Spaniards. Bushwhacked in the first stages of the
battle, the Spaniards took their vengeance. When it was over, the chief
was nowhere to be found. Whether he fled or was killed and his body
secreted away, Chief Tuscaloosa disappeared from the battlefield.
Mavilla was burned to the ground, and certainly hundreds, perhaps
thousands, of the chiefs warriors perished in its defense.


Now, With De Soto bieng killed in Pizzaro's does Tuscalossa still survive and his City of Mavilla be able to make an legitmate kingdom in Alabama and on the Mississippi?

 

[robertp6165]

Now, With De Soto bieng killed in Pizzaro's does Tuscalossa still survive and his City of Mavilla be able to make an legitmate kingdom in Alabama and on the Mississippi?

It probably survived for a while longer than in OTL, before collapsing along with the rest of the Southeastern Mississippian cultures as the European diseases reached it via Spanish missionaries and decimated the population. By 1700, things are probably settling down to be quite similar to OTL.

 

[robertp6165]

A shameless bump.

So, robert, is the next installment going to be a 100 years or less (as we get closer to modern day, I assume we'll go slower. I mean, on your third installment you'll be all the way to the year 1800! That's getting real close to the present)

Keep it up,
Darkest90

I'm thinking probably one more 100 year installment for the 18th Century...two 50 year installments for the 19th century...and then 20 year installments for the 20th Century. Although, because so much of import happened in the 18th Century, I may do two 50 year installments there instead as well.

 

[Darkest]

So do you think that 50 years might be done?

 

[Historico]

In 1526, a wealthy Spanish accountant by the name of Ayallon decided to found a Spanish colony on the coast of what is now South Carolina. This wasn't your typical Spanish slash-through-looking-for-gold effort. Ayallon wanted to build something permanent, and he planned carefully. He brought provisions to see the colonists through until crops could be grown, black slaves to help grow the crops, and a total of around 500 people for the settlement.

Everything that could go wrong went wrong. Most of the provisions were lost in a storm. Malaria spread from the slaves to the Spaniards. There may have been a slave revolt as the Spanish weakened from disease and hunger. The local Indians were initially friendly and willing to share their corn or trade for it, but they were nomadic part of the year, and didn't have corn to share after a certain point. Ayallon died, probably from a combination of malaria and starvation, as did the majority of the colonists. The survivors split into factions and may have even fought a mini civil war before they finally abandoned the colony. The malaria apparently burned itself out. The local Indian population probably wasn't dense enough to sustain it and it apparently didn't travel inland to the more densely populated areas where the Mississippian mound builders still survived. It is impossible to know exactly when malaria did spread into the American southeast, but it was apparently spreading into the area along the Mississippi River around 1670 when the first French explorers came through. Some European manufactured goods from the Ayallon colony did make it inland to the Mississippian areas eventually, and were found by the Desoto Expedition over ten years later.

Everything that could go wrong went wrong. Most of the provisions were lost in a storm. Malaria spread from the slaves to the Spaniards. There may have been a slave revolt as the Spanish weakened from disease and hunger. The local Indians were initially friendly and willing to share their corn or trade for it, but they were nomadic part of the year, and didn't have corn to share after a certain point. Ayallon died, probably from a combination of malaria and starvation, as did the majority of the colonists. The survivors split into factions and may have even fought a mini civil war before they finally abandoned the colony. The malaria apparently burned itself out. The local Indian population probably wasn't dense enough to sustain it and it apparently didn't travel inland to the more densely populated areas where the Mississippian mound builders still survived. It is impossible to know exactly when malaria did spread into the American southeast, but it was apparently spreading into the area along the Mississippi River around 1670 when the first French explorers came through. Some European manufactured goods from the Ayallon colony did make it inland to the Mississippian areas eventually, and were found by the Desoto Expedition over ten years later.

......So Rebuffed in South America...Would that push the Spanish to pursue North America instead. Would they try reastablish the Colony in North Carolina?

 

[Anthony Appleyard]

With a Tawantinsuyu naval base on or near Tierra del Fuego, how long before they claim or land on or try to settle the Antarctic Peninsula? Even with European-type ships, sailing across the Antarctic Ocean will be rather hairy. The garrison would be cut off every winter and would have to live Eskimo-fashion on seals and penguins and fish.

 

[robertp6165]

In 1526, a wealthy Spanish accountant by the name of Ayallon decided to found a Spanish colony on the coast of what is now South Carolina. This wasn't your typical Spanish slash-through-looking-for-gold effort. Ayallon wanted to build something permanent, and he planned carefully. He brought provisions to see the colonists through until crops could be grown, black slaves to help grow the crops, and a total of around 500 people for the settlement.

Everything that could go wrong went wrong. Most of the provisions were lost in a storm. Malaria spread from the slaves to the Spaniards. There may have been a slave revolt as the Spanish weakened from disease and hunger. The local Indians were initially friendly and willing to share their corn or trade for it, but they were nomadic part of the year, and didn't have corn to share after a certain point. Ayallon died, probably from a combination of malaria and starvation, as did the majority of the colonists. The survivors split into factions and may have even fought a mini civil war before they finally abandoned the colony. The malaria apparently burned itself out. The local Indian population probably wasn't dense enough to sustain it and it apparently didn't travel inland to the more densely populated areas where the Mississippian mound builders still survived. It is impossible to know exactly when malaria did spread into the American southeast, but it was apparently spreading into the area along the Mississippi River around 1670 when the first French explorers came through. Some European manufactured goods from the Ayallon colony did make it inland to the Mississippian areas eventually, and were found by the Desoto Expedition over ten years later.

......So Rebuffed in South America...Would that push the Spanish to pursue North America instead. Would they try reastablish the Colony in North Carolina?

Probably not. The Spanish of that time period, unlike the English who settled later, were not primarily interested in setting up colonies, but rather in seeking gold and silver. The Ayallon colony in South Carolina was an exception to the rule, but being an exception, also was something no likely to be repeated once it failed.

One indicator of the relative lack of interest of the Spanish in establishing colonies is the fact that so few Spaniards actually came to the New World, averaging about 2,000 a year. Some interesting population statistics for the period 1500 to 1600 are found here.

 

[robertp6165]

With a Tawantinsuyu naval base on or near Tierra del Fuego, how long before they claim or land on or try to settle the Antarctic Peninsula? Even with European-type ships, sailing across the Antarctic Ocean will be rather hairy. The garrison would be cut off every winter and would have to live Eskimo-fashion on seals and penguins and fish.

This is one of those cases where one has to ask, WHY would they want to go there? The land there is not really habitable, and there is little there they can find which would make profitable trade goods.

 

[robertp6165]

Here are some additions to earlier segments of the timeline, in preparation for the next installment of the timeline itself, which I anticipate finishing in the next couple of days.

ADDITIONS TO EARLIER SEGMENTS OF THE TIMELINE

c. A.D. 1620--First contacts between the Tawantinsuya and French traders. The contacts
are at first hostile, as the French are Roman Catholics, and thus are considered enemies
by the Tawantinsuya. But as time goes on, contact continues, and attitudes among the
Tawantinsuya toward the French begin to soften. By the end of the century, regular trade
between France and the Tawantinsuyu Empire will be a reality, somewhat to the chagrin
of the other major trading partner of the Tawantinsuya, England. The contact with
France will also begin to erode the anti-Catholic prejudices of the Tawantinsuya, as they
slowly come to realize that, just as all Christians in general are not the same, so all
Catholics are not the same. But the Tawantinsuya will remain highly suspicious of
Catholics in general, despite these contacts, for some time to come.

A.D. 1668--First French trading post and factory, at Surat, established in India. This will
be the beginning of a century of competition for dominance in India between the French
East India Company and it’s counterpart, the English and Tawantinsuya East India
Company.

A.D. 1687 onward--In the newly independent Brazilian Quilombo, the jubilant victorious
ex-slaves are faced with a major problem, namely the formation of a government which
will be acceptable to all. The former slaves of Brazil come from many different tribal
backgrounds, many of which were hostile to each other back in Africa. To some extent,
the shared experience of slavery has created a bond between them, but old hatreds still
remain, and with the removal of the common Portuguese enemy, centrifugal forces
threaten to tear the Quilombo apart. The charismatic personality of Zumbi, who is
universally respected by all as the leader who brought freedom to all, for the time being
keeps this from happening. Zumbi tries to instill a crusading zeal among his fellow
freedmen, as he points to the neighboring Dutch and French colonies in the Guianas,
where slavery is still being practiced, and argues that the Quilombo will never be truly
safe until all slaves on the continent are freed. His fiery rhetoric stirs the hearts of the
freedmen, and over the next decade, the Quilombo will be the springboard for numerous
raids on the neighboring Dutch and French colonies in which whites are killed and slaves
are freed and brought back to the Quilombo. The Dutch and French protest to the
Tawantinsuya, but the Tawantinsuya refuse to intervene.

Zumbi also recognizes that in order for the Quilombo to survive, the population must be
expanded. He hits on a novel solution. With Tawantinsuya aid, the Quilombo will build
a small merchant fleet and begin trading the cacao, sugar, rum, and other products they
produce to the Tawantinsuya...since no European nation will trade with the Quilombo,
which will be an international pariah for quite some time...in exchange for cash (they
also, as mentioned elsewhere, get a windfall when gold is discovered in 1697 in the
Minas Gerais region of Brazil). Armed with this cash, Quilombo ships make regular
visits to the great slave-trading ports of west Africa, where they buy slaves, transport
them to the Quilombo, free them, and give them land to cultivate. Zumbi’s plan allows
many thousands of Africans who would have ended up as slaves in various European
colonies to avoid this sad fate, while also dramatically increasing the population of the
Quilombo. By the end of the century, the population of the Brazilian Quilombo will have
nearly doubled as a result of these efforts. In the short term, this is good, as it allows more
land to be cleared and brought into cultivation, economic production to be increased, and
a larger military force to be maintained. In the long term, however, the arrival of these
people creates additional problems for the Quilombo, as the newly arrived “immigrants”
have no shared experience of slavery under the Portuguese to balance against their old
tribal loyalties. Thus, while their arrival adds to the population (good from an economic
and military standpoint), it also adds to the centrifugal forces which lurk just beneath the
surface of the Quilombo.

A.D. 1690--News of the successful slave revolt in Brazil, and Tawantinsuya support of it,
has caused much consternation in England. Many in England are horrified that their
erstwhile allies would support such an indiscriminate massacre of Christians, even if they
are "papists." But even more fundamentally, the revolt in Brazil has pointed out a serious
weakness inherent in the slave system of labor which is gradually spreading through
England's colonies in the New World...the possibility that foreign powers could incite
rebellions and massacres by the slaves. For example, in North America, the English share
borders with both Spanish and French colonies, which could easily become conduits for
smuggling of arms to the slaves. And the recent massacre carried out by the French and
their Indian allies at Schenectady, New York, in January 1690 only serves to heighten
fears as to what the French might resort to next...if the French are capable of butchering
women and children by their own hands, or of using Native Americans to do the same,
why would they be squeamish about using slaves for the same purpose? A debate in
Parliament rages over this subject for several months in mid-1690 as lawmakers argue
over the economic consequences of ending slavery versus the very real threat which
foreign-supported slave rebellions cause. Finally, in September 1690, Parliament passes
the Abolition Bill. The new law states that effective on January 1, 1691, it shall be illegal
to import slaves into any English colony. New indentured servants may be imported, but
black indentured servants shall enjoy all legal protections given to white indentured
servants, and no indentured servant thus imported shall be indentured to labor for more
than seven years. Furthermore, all children of slaves or indentured servants born after
January 1, 1691 will be free. In order to cushion the economic impact of the abolition
law, all slaves held in bondage prior to January 1, 1691 will become the indentured
servants of their current masters for a term of twenty years, with all the legal protections
given to white indentured servants.

There is much outcry in some of the colonies, especially in Jamaica, Barbados, and other
Caribbean sugar islands which depend heavily on slavery, when news of this law reaches
them. The outcry is much less in the North American colonies, where slavery has not yet
taken deep root. But King William makes in known that he will enforce the law and deal
with any who resist it as traitors, and the law does function as intended. Within twenty
years, there are no African slaves in any of the British colonies (a trade in illegal Native American slaves does arise, as will be discussed elsewhere, however), and no indentured servants bound
for more than seven years labor. Black indentured servants are not treated markedly
differently than white ones are, and blacks who have completed their indentures are living
in sizable numbers as free men throughout the colonies. Many will continue to work as
paid laborers on the plantations and farms where they were formerly indentured, while
others, not wishing to remain where they are and lacking land of their own, will take the
westward trails in the upcoming century, forming a major part of the impetus for
westward expansion of the British American colonies, alongside the Scots Irish and other
major immigrant groups.

A.D. 1690 onward--The effect of the English Abolition Act on the development of the
British colonies in America and the Caribbean is profound. The development of some
of the colonies in the southeastern portion of North America is significantly slowed, as
sufficient numbers of men willing to labor in the hot, humid, malaria and yellow-fever
infested region cannot be easily found. Plantation agriculture, which had begun in
Virginia earlier, never spreads to any great degree to most of the other Southern colonies.
Instead, the Carolinas and Georgia will be settled primarily by hardy, independent
Scots-Irish, German, or freed African farmers who each till their own small farms.

Many of the plantations of Virginia itself do not continue much beyond the end of the
17th century, as the labor to make them economically viable is no longer to be had.
Those that do survive (and this model applies also to the plantations of the Caribbean
sugar islands) do so by instituting a system similar to the old manorial system which
existed in Europe during the Middle Ages. The former indentured servants are given title
to small plots of land by the plantation owner, which they can farm for their own profit
and subsistence. In exchange, they agree to labor on the lands owned by the plantation
owner on certain days of the week. This offer proves attractive to many former slaves
and indentured servants, who have no means to acquire land of their own otherwise, and
allows the plantation owner to continue to receive the benefits of labor without paying
wages for it.

Another, less savory option for plantation and factory owners who refuse to give up the
benefits of slave labor is an illegal trade in Native American “indentured laborers”...in
actuality slaves...who are ruthlessly captured by English raiding parties, or more often, by
the Native American allies of the English, and forced to work on the farms and in the
industries of the English colonies. These laborers are brutally treated, and although they
are technically given seven year indentures...as specified by law...in practice, many are
held far longer than seven years. Ironically, many of the most successful and ruthless
raiders are former African slaves who, having been set free, see this as a lucrative trade
and a way to make a comfortable living (many of them come from slave-raiding cultures
in Africa itself, so this is not a major moral dilemma for them). This trade has
devastating impacts on the Native American tribes of the South especially, where it
results in nearly constant inter-tribal warfare...for the purpose of capturing prisoners who
can be sold to the English...and the decimation of whole tribes by slavers.

However, for the most part, slavery ceases to be a major part of the South’s agricultural
system, and the lack of a slave-based agricultural system will prevent the dominance of a
“Planter Class” from arising in the South in the ATL. Indeed, the South will begin to
industrialize as entrepreneurs begin to set up industries to exploit the region’s resources.
Within a short time major industries dealing in timber, rosin, turpentine, and other “naval
stores” derived from the South’s immense stands of pine trees will arise, companies
producing pottery and bricks from Southern clays, as well as many others. There will
even be attempts to produce silks for export (via the introduction of mulberry trees and
silkworms from China), with mixed results. As a result, the economy, political structure,
and population of the South will be markedly different from that of OTL, and this will
have dramatic impacts as time goes on.

A.D. 1693--King William III of England writes a new charter for the English East India
Company (the English portion of the English and Tawantinsuya East India Company). He
doubles the capital and broadens the membership of the East India Company. This is a
response to the following objections to the Company: narrow membership, exorbitant
profits, and involvement in costly wars. The Tawantinsuya agree to the provisions of the
new charter, and continue their partnership in the company.

A.D. 1696--A rival company forms in England to challenge the East India Company’s
dominance over the Far Eastern trade.

 

[Darkest]

Hey, nice to see you back and working on this ATL, it was one of my favorite.

 

[robertp6165]

Hey, nice to see you back and working on this ATL, it was one of my favorite.

Sorry it took so long. Between work, volunteer work I do for various historical societies, and health issues, it has been hard to do much on any of my timelines for a good while. It is good to be back.

 

[Tom_B]

This is still an interesting TL. Incan hostility towards Catholicism may soften into AntiJesuitism.

Tom

 

[Codeman]

wow this is a very cool timeline i have been wondering myself how to get a native superpower very good job

 

[MerryPrankster]

If slavery is all but dead in the British Empire (with the exception of the Indian slaving, which will probably be small-scale) and thus there is no planter class, how will the American Revolution come about?

You'd still have the Northern mercantile interests and the Puritan/Presbyterian clergy (who saw Catholic conspiracies under every bush), but you won't have such people as Jefferson or Washington.

I recall you said that the existance of the mega-Inca in South America wouldn't butterfly the USA away, but in TTL, the American Revolution will be somewhat different.

 

[Wendell]

This is certainly an interesting timeline. Any chance that the U.S. (if it happens) will be nicer to its indians in TTL? Are they still called Indians?

 

[robertp6165]

If slavery is all but dead in the British Empire (with the exception of the Indian slaving, which will probably be small-scale) and thus there is no planter class, how will the American Revolution come about?

You'd still have the Northern mercantile interests and the Puritan/Presbyterian clergy (who saw Catholic conspiracies under every bush), but you won't have such people as Jefferson or Washington.

I recall you said that the existance of the mega-Inca in South America wouldn't butterfly the USA away, but in TTL, the American Revolution will be somewhat different.

The same pressures toward Revolution...namely the British taxation measures made necessary by their victory in the Seven Years' War...would still exist in this timeline, and most of the agitation which sparked the Revolution took place in the northern colonies anyway. But I agree, most likely the South's participation in it will be greatly different. I agree that Washington, Jefferson, Madison, Patrick Henry, etc. probably don't exist in this timeline. Possibly the South is much more thoroughly loyalist than in OTL, and doesn't join the Revolution at all.

It does raise some interesting questions...which I have not yet resolved in my own mind (suggestions welcome...)

1) If George Washington doesn't exist, who is given command of the Continental Army in 1775? Without Washington at the helm, will the Revolution succeed (most of the likely alternates do not impress me as being capable of leading the Revolution to victory)? If the Revolution does succeed, does the commander of the Continental army do as Washington did, and voluntarily give up power at the end of the war? Possibly we have some sort of monarchy, or military dictatorship?

2) If Thomas Jefferson does exist, who writes the Declaration of Independence, and what is it's content? Does it contain the famous assertion that "all men are created equal," and the claim of inalienable rights to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness which have inspired freedom-loving people the world over ever since?

 

[Wendell]

I would think that Washington and Jefferson would both likely still exist. Expect a more equality-oriented Declaration of Independence though, or so I would think.

 

[Tom_B]

The same pressures toward Revolution...namely the British taxation measures made necessary by their victory in the Seven Years' War...would still exist in this timeline, and most of the agitation which sparked the Revolution took place in the northern colonies anyway. But I agree, most likely the South's participation in it will be greatly different. I agree that Washington, Jefferson, Madison, Patrick Henry, etc. probably don't exist in this timeline. Possibly the South is much more thoroughly loyalist than in OTL, and doesn't join the Revolution at all.

It does raise some interesting questions...which I have not yet resolved in my own mind (suggestions welcome...)

1) If George Washington doesn't exist, who is given command of the Continental Army in 1775? Without Washington at the helm, will the Revolution succeed (most of the likely alternates do not impress me as being capable of leading the Revolution to victory)? If the Revolution does succeed, does the commander of the Continental army do as Washington did, and voluntarily give up power at the end of the war? Possibly we have some sort of monarchy, or military dictatorship?

2) If Thomas Jefferson does exist, who writes the Declaration of Independence, and what is it's content? Does it contain the famous assertion that "all men are created equal," and the claim of inalienable rights to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness which have inspired freedom-loving people the world over ever since?

How about putting Benedict Arnold in charge of the Continental Army???

As for the Declaration of Independence how about a collaboration between Ben Franklin and Tom Paine?

 

[MerryPrankster]

How about putting Benedict Arnold in charge of the Continental Army???

As for the Declaration of Independence how about a collaboration between Ben Franklin and Tom Paine?

Yeah...Benedict Arnold was from the north, wasn't he? He might not get butterflied away in TTL. Franklin and Paine too.

 

[robertp6165]

How about putting Benedict Arnold in charge of the Continental Army???

Yeah...Benedict Arnold was from the north, wasn't he? He might not get butterflied away in TTL.

Benedict Arnold was certainly a capable officer, but there is virtually no chance that he would have been selected as he was an unknown shop keeper when the war broke out.

A clue as to who the likely possibilities were would be to look at who was commissioned as Major General (second in rank to Washington) at the time Washington was commissioned as Commander-in-Chief. You have four people...Artemas Ward, Charles Lee, Philip Schuyler, and Israel Putnam. It is reasonable to assume that had Washington not been there, one of these four men would have been chosen Commander-in-Chief. As it happened, Artemas Ward was named second in command to Washington...so he is, perhaps, the most likely to have ended up with the top spot in the absence of Washington.

Artemas Ward was respected, but was a much better politician than soldier. His principal military "achievement" was to fail to supply sufficient ammunition to enable the fortifications on Breed's Hill to be held on June 17, 1775. So the thought of him in command does not engender a lot of confidence.

The other three are little better.

Although he was probably the most militarily skilled of the four, Charles Lee would likely have never been chosen because he was "too English" (indeed, Lee might not even be on the rebel side, as in OTL he had come to America and become a Virginia planter...a career choice that probably is not available to him in the ATL). Philip Schuyler did not distinguish himself in the commands he held during the war, and Israel Putnam also, for the most part, did not demonstrate any special skill.

Assuming that Ward becomes the Commander in Chief, about the only good thing that can be said is that he won't hold the position all that long. He was forced to resign from the army by health issues in March 1777. Of course, the Revolution may well be lost by then.

If the Revolution is not lost by then, then the field is opened up to people who have distinguished themselves in the early fighting. You might well see Benedict Arnold selected, or possibly Nathaniel Greene (Greene was one of the original eight Brigadier Generals who were commissioned at the same time as Washington and Ward et al). Either of which would have made a fine Commander-in-Chief.

But I seriously question whether the Revolution lasts through the winter of 1776 with Ward in overall command.

As for the Declaration of Independence how about a collaboration between Ben Franklin and Tom Paine?

Franklin and Paine too (might not get butterfiled away.

Expect a more equality-oriented Declaration of Independence though, or so I would think.

Benjamin Franklin certainly would be involved, but I doubt Tom Paine would. Paine only emigrated to America in 1774, was not even a member of the Continental Congress, and so would not have been selected for the committee which composed the Declaration. And Franklin likely would have done as in OTL, and refused to be responsible for the main body of the document, but served only in an editorial role.

My guess is that the main document is written by John Adams. If so, I would expect that it would be quite legalistic in nature (Adams was a lawyer by profession) and without any sweeping generalizations about inalienable rights and equality. That could mean a much more authoritarian and less democratic United States later on (Adams' involvment in the later Alien and Sedition Acts while President would tend to support this, as well).