The Greater Norman Empire and its successor states.
- Thread starter AJNolte
- Start date
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_KalaphatesCaliphate is a Greek word?
A couple of points.
1.
You seem to be going with a "Christ-wank" with this Timeline, what with your earlier and more successful crusades, and the Nestorian Mongols. With this in mind, you may see, at some point in the future, a crusade on Timbuktu, considering how Islam would have shifted considerable more into Africa with a Christian Mediterranean and Muslim refugees and what not.
2.
This reminds a little bit of another timeline that was posted here ages ago called the Unholy Roman Empire if memory serves. It also had a crusader state in Tunisia (called Carthage in that timeline, which makes more sense from a European point of view than Tunisia). The POD was Barbarossa living longer if I recall. The way they delt with the "Turkish question" was to have a still pagan Turkish chieftain in Eastern Anatolia convert to Greek Orthodoxy, and eventually become Byzantine emperor. You may wish to try something similar. Of course that also had some fun involving the Cathars surviving by migrating to a still Muslim Spain, so that's out of the question here. How exactly do you plan on dealing with the poor Cathars ITTL?
1.
You seem to be going with a "Christ-wank" with this Timeline, what with your earlier and more successful crusades, and the Nestorian Mongols. With this in mind, you may see, at some point in the future, a crusade on Timbuktu, considering how Islam would have shifted considerable more into Africa with a Christian Mediterranean and Muslim refugees and what not.
2.
This reminds a little bit of another timeline that was posted here ages ago called the Unholy Roman Empire if memory serves. It also had a crusader state in Tunisia (called Carthage in that timeline, which makes more sense from a European point of view than Tunisia). The POD was Barbarossa living longer if I recall. The way they delt with the "Turkish question" was to have a still pagan Turkish chieftain in Eastern Anatolia convert to Greek Orthodoxy, and eventually become Byzantine emperor. You may wish to try something similar. Of course that also had some fun involving the Cathars surviving by migrating to a still Muslim Spain, so that's out of the question here. How exactly do you plan on dealing with the poor Cathars ITTL?
Christ-wank: yep, to some extent. I think Islam moving deeper into west Africa makes sense. In fact, in the long-run, I could see a Christian East Africa and a Muslim West Africa, which is sort of ironic.
2. I think the Kathars may be butterflied. However, if not, they won't have the French king to come down on them. It kind of depends on where the church is at that point.
To the Old Stalwarts of the GNE...
1. Are any of you still on the board?
2. Would you like to see the timeline continued?
3. Would you prefer this continuation to happen here, or somewhere else? And would you like to see a retcon or moving forward?
This project won't happen for at least another two weeks, but if there is enough interest I'm interested in doing it.
1. Are any of you still on the board?
2. Would you like to see the timeline continued?
3. Would you prefer this continuation to happen here, or somewhere else? And would you like to see a retcon or moving forward?
This project won't happen for at least another two weeks, but if there is enough interest I'm interested in doing it.
Well, I'm finishing up my last semester of grad school classes, and I figured this would be a good writing project to take up. So, yeah, there may be more. I need to reread the entire TL, and I may try to clean up some of the older sections.What is this?
More please!!!!!
AJNolte
Good to see this again, although I would probably have to read it from the start to catch up with events. Although I hated the initial idea, a Norman victory,
it was an interesting TL, albeit something of a Norman-wank with their gains elsewhere from what I remember? However definitely interesting and would welcome more.Steve
I would eagerly await updates on the fate of the peoples in this TL.
...especially Dawitts people.
...especially Dawitts people.
It does sound interesting, but you will need a much different POD for this 'Greater Norman Empire' TL, to work.
Teezer.
From: ?List of Important Events, 1100, Encyclopedia Anglica, 1911 edition:
The year 1100 was a consequential one in medieval history. In Scandinavia, this year marked Valdemar I's successful expedition to Iceland, and the conquest of this last pagan hold-out for the now Christian Scandinavian kingdom. As a result of this conquest, the surviving pagans, many of whom were already refugees from the mainland, decided to take ship west in the hope of finding a land there. Rumors abounded of a land west of the ocean, and even these pagans had doubtless heard of the Voyage of Saint Brendan, a popular medieval manuscript of the time. In their desparation, these pagans took all they had--their livestock, weapons, and those tools they could not easily replicate, and sailed westward in several large ships, landing at Greenland in 1101. Meanwhile, in Normandy, 1100 also saw great upheavals. Robert Curthose, the Norman emperor, died in a hunting accident in the summer of this year, leaving his younger brother Edward Beauclerc as his likely successor. Later chroniclers remain uncertain what role Edward played in this accident, and it has not been proven that he was directly responsible, but suspicion swirled around this beneficiary of his brother's misfortune. There was some talk of offering the crown to Richard the Moor, but he refused it, preferring to focus all his considerable talent on Jerusalem. It also seems likely that many of the Normans were wary of Richard because of his open embrace of many eastern ways. Edward would be crowned in 1101 at Rouin. 1100 also saw the formal corronation of Conrad as Holy Roman Emperor, and his investiture with real temporal power. Conrad would quickly establish a reputation as very different from his father, seeking close relations with both the Norman Empire and the Pope, and focusing his talents on the internal reorganization of the Empire's affairs. First, however, Conrad faced a war with King Stephen of France, who sought to recover the county of Champagne. The Champagne War, beginning in 1101, would demonstrate to the world that the rumors of France's death had been exagerated. Though France was eventually defeated, largely due to the fact that all of her neighbors proved entirely unwilling to help, the conflict was not nearly so lopsided as wars during the French Partition had been. The princes of northern Europe were forced to recognize that King Stephen was a much more able French monarch than his Capetian predecessors. In Europe, the other consequential event of this year was the birth of a son to Owein ApBleddyn and Constance of Britany. The boy, christened Idris ApOwein, or Arthur to his Breton subjects, would prove one of the most consequential European princes of the mid twelfth century, particularly in the period known throughout the successor states of the Greater Norman Empire as the Years when God's Angel's Wept Blood. In far-off Abysinia, this year saw Dawit RazAmman, son of Edgar the Atheling and Princess Deborah of Abysinia, formally invested as Nagus of Ethiopia, thus beginning the long-running and effective Davidic dynasty. Dawit's star had been rising throughout the thirteen years since his return from England, and he was entrusted by the then Nagus with many key missions, such as the reorganization of the Ethiopian army and a number of missions to the Nubian kingdoms of Macuria, Noubatia and Elodia-Alwa. Thus, at age 32, it was perhaps not surprising that the vigorous and exceptional young Ethiopian prince was named Nagusa Nagus by near unanimous acclamation. The Fatimid Caliphate also saw a change-over in leadership, as Mustafa Ibn-Ali died, to be succeeded by his son Hussein Ibn-Mustafa. Hussein the Lion would spend most of his long Caliphate at war with the vastly superior forces of the Caliphate of Baghdad, first in a series of low-level border wars, or fitna, and later in the mailstrom that was the Jihad of the Icwan Al-Islam. In this battle for the soul of Islam, and, so many thought, for it's very survival, Hussein was perhaps the most pivotal figure over his nearly half century of rule.
From: ?List of Important Events, 1100, Encyclopedia Anglica, 1911 edition:
The year 1100 was a consequential one in medieval history. In Scandinavia, this year marked Valdemar I's successful expedition to Iceland, and the conquest of this last pagan hold-out for the now Christian Scandinavian kingdom. As a result of this conquest, the surviving pagans, many of whom were already refugees from the mainland, decided to take ship west in the hope of finding a land there. Rumors abounded of a land west of the ocean, and even these pagans had doubtless heard of the Voyage of Saint Brendan, a popular medieval manuscript of the time. In their desparation, these pagans took all they had--their livestock, weapons, and those tools they could not easily replicate, and sailed westward in several large ships, landing at Greenland in 1101. Meanwhile, in Normandy, 1100 also saw great upheavals. Robert Curthose, the Norman emperor, died in a hunting accident in the summer of this year, leaving his younger brother Edward Beauclerc as his likely successor. Later chroniclers remain uncertain what role Edward played in this accident, and it has not been proven that he was directly responsible, but suspicion swirled around this beneficiary of his brother's misfortune. There was some talk of offering the crown to Richard the Moor, but he refused it, preferring to focus all his considerable talent on Jerusalem. It also seems likely that many of the Normans were wary of Richard because of his open embrace of many eastern ways. Edward would be crowned in 1101 at Rouin. 1100 also saw the formal corronation of Conrad as Holy Roman Emperor, and his investiture with real temporal power. Conrad would quickly establish a reputation as very different from his father, seeking close relations with both the Norman Empire and the Pope, and focusing his talents on the internal reorganization of the Empire's affairs. First, however, Conrad faced a war with King Stephen of France, who sought to recover the county of Champagne. The Champagne War, beginning in 1101, would demonstrate to the world that the rumors of France's death had been exagerated. Though France was eventually defeated, largely due to the fact that all of her neighbors proved entirely unwilling to help, the conflict was not nearly so lopsided as wars during the French Partition had been. The princes of northern Europe were forced to recognize that King Stephen was a much more able French monarch than his Capetian predecessors. In Europe, the other consequential event of this year was the birth of a son to Owein ApBleddyn and Constance of Britany. The boy, christened Idris ApOwein, or Arthur to his Breton subjects, would prove one of the most consequential European princes of the mid twelfth century, particularly in the period known throughout the successor states of the Greater Norman Empire as the Years when God's Angel's Wept Blood. In far-off Abysinia, this year saw Dawit RazAmman, son of Edgar the Atheling and Princess Deborah of Abysinia, formally invested as Nagus of Ethiopia, thus beginning the long-running and effective Davidic dynasty. Dawit's star had been rising throughout the thirteen years since his return from England, and he was entrusted by the then Nagus with many key missions, such as the reorganization of the Ethiopian army and a number of missions to the Nubian kingdoms of Macuria, Noubatia and Elodia-Alwa. Thus, at age 32, it was perhaps not surprising that the vigorous and exceptional young Ethiopian prince was named Nagusa Nagus by near unanimous acclamation. The Fatimid Caliphate also saw a change-over in leadership, as Mustafa Ibn-Ali died, to be succeeded by his son Hussein Ibn-Mustafa. Hussein the Lion would spend most of his long Caliphate at war with the vastly superior forces of the Caliphate of Baghdad, first in a series of low-level border wars, or fitna, and later in the mailstrom that was the Jihad of the Icwan Al-Islam. In this battle for the soul of Islam, and, so many thought, for it's very survival, Hussein was perhaps the most pivotal figure over his nearly half century of rule.