The Great War begins in 1908

Yes but the Model T was the only vehicle produced by assembly line which allowed later mass production of armoured cars and tanks. So any assembly line production would begin outside Ford plants in 1909 and not affect production until later that year or even 1910.

The production line concept was first used by Eli Olds before Ford took it up Fords then tried to sue any other manufacturer using it in order to secure their hold on the market.

The Wrights were the first to prove heavier than air flight. I do not see what significance any other people working on it could have to the development of aircraft?

What about this intrepid American pioneer aviator?http://www.hants.gov.uk/museum/aldershot/cody/flying.html

biplane.jpg


With this machine that flew in 1908. Aircraft and mass production would have happened anyway with different pioneers. Mans desire to kill of his fellow man in increasingly industrial quantities would have made sure of that.
 
Presumably since the Voisin (? memory failure ?) brothers in France were working on it before the Wrights, then managed to make it work after the Wrights (I think from 1906), then France would have the beginnings of its own aircraft industry in 1908, at a very primitive level but not requiring any contact with the USA

Best Regards
Grey Wolf

France did have its own aircraft industry in OTL and most of the planes used by the Allies on the Western Front were of French design or manufacture.

My point is the technological breakthroughs by the Wrights that were copied and modified by others were crucial to further development.

In 1908, the development of aircraft was primitive to say the least and if war breaks out then then the technological breakthrough of being able to sustain flight for long enough to be a viable machine of war was not demonstrated until that year by Wilbur Wright.
 
The production line concept was first used by Eli Olds before Ford took it up Fords then tried to sue any other manufacturer using it in order to secure their hold on the market.



What about this intrepid American pioneer aviator?http://www.hants.gov.uk/museum/aldershot/cody/flying.html

biplane.jpg


With this machine that flew in 1908. Aircraft and mass production would have happened anyway with different pioneers. Mans desire to kill of his fellow man in increasingly industrial quantities would have made sure of that.

Again like the viable Voison designs, it is later than 1908. Unless yet another POD is introduced, the world will have to wait until 1908 for Wilbur to demonstrate the technological advances that will allow areoplanes to stay aloft long enough to be an effective war weapon.
 
The production line concept was first used by Eli Olds before Ford took it up Fords then tried to sue any other manufacturer using it in order to secure their hold on the market.



What about this intrepid American pioneer aviator?http://www.hants.gov.uk/museum/aldershot/cody/flying.html

biplane.jpg


With this machine that flew in 1908. Aircraft and mass production would have happened anyway with different pioneers. Mans desire to kill of his fellow man in increasingly industrial quantities would have made sure of that.

Olds did introduce a form of mass production but Ford developed the assembly line. But whether he did or not is moot. History recalls the events as Fordism not Oldsism. Ford was successful in his assembly line production.

It was the Model T assembly line mass production techniques that meant that other vehicles like armoured cars and the later tanks could be manufactured in sufficent numbers to make a difference. As the Model T events occured in 1908, the time lag means it would be extremely unlikely that these methods could be used extensively in a war beginning in 1908.
 
While whe may have a few motorized ambulances Etc. I don't see any use of Armored cars or trucks, unless the war lasts 4-5 years, the same for Airplanes [scouting]

?So any Ideas how long this war will last?
 
Assuming the Germans get the nitrates they need, I don't think the war would last as long as WW1 did. Their would be little to no wide us of airplanes, armored vehicles, definately no tanks, etc..., essentially infantry and calvary, so very NOT modern. Lots of cool flags and bright uniforms. I think Germany would defeat Russia, but I think France would hold them, and Germany's navy would prove pretty weak to Britain's, especially if Japan and their navy joins in with the allies. Modest gains for Germany in the east, restabalization in the west, Germany keeps her colonies, I think it would be just another bloody, but mildly regional and short war, just like many other wars on the continent. Now I don't have quite the information that some here do have, but I say 6-12 months tops. And war is still seen as glorious when its over.
 
Again like the viable Voison designs, it is later than 1908. Unless yet another POD is introduced, the world will have to wait until 1908 for Wilbur to demonstrate the technological advances that will allow areoplanes to stay aloft long enough to be an effective war weapon.

Not necessarily. There were other inventors that were working on heavier than aircraft. Gustav Whitehead may have successfully flown before the Wrights, and Sir Hiram Maxim succeeded - to a degree. What is critical is the wing warping that allowed controlled flight. Santo-Dumont is definately a possible contender. A war will open lots of possibilities to many inventors - tho on the other hand it could be a tremendous hinderance at first also.
 
Early a/c don't have to be very good to do scouting, mapping, & arty obs. Also, if Japan gets in against Rus, & France DoW Japan, that brings Britain in against France,:eek: per AJNT.
 
Early a/c don't have to be very good to do scouting, mapping, & arty obs. Also, if Japan gets in against Rus, & France DoW Japan, that brings Britain in against France,:eek: per AJNT.

AjNT is a defensive treaty I think, So If Japan entered of its own accord, It probably would not obligate Britain to enter. 2) since both parties had agreed under the treaty to consult fully Britain would no doubt have attempted to dissuade the japanese from such a course. thus if Britain is not predisposed to entering on either side, its likely Japan will not either unless her interests in China and Korea are directly threatened.
 
With the whole airwar, this give Zeppelins a chance to shine, if aircrafts is still to erratic to be used.

Ahem - this one:

As the Zeppelin disaster near Echterdingen happened in this year, perhaps German Zeppelin development has no bearing on the war either.

So very little initial air activity. And as already pointed to activity in this sphere would depend on a prolonged war. Something more than 8 months.

RN:
Fisher may still want his landing in Mecklenburg to march on Berlin!
 
at this point in time isnt france heavily dependant on german chemicals to fill their munitions as well... i thought a lot of thei chemicals came from krupp and ig farben
 
There's an 800 pound gorilla in the room that the Great Powers will likely ignore.
Teddy Poosevelt was pro-Britian--but even more, a devoted defender of American rights. If the British are as high handed regarding American trade as they were in 1914, things could get very nasty.
The ink is just dry on The Hague Treaties of 1907, and I think that a cynical disregard of them by the British would have both short term and long term results.
Short term: When American merchants try to ship cargo to neutral Denmark, Belgium, and the Netherlands, and it's seized by Britian, Tedy Roosevelt delivers a hard line to the British.
(Nitrates would be contraband of war if delivered to Germany--but there is no such thing as contraband delivered to a neutral nation. The British rejected the doctrine of Continuous voyage in the US Civil War, so I don't think Roosevelt would accept Britian's changing the rules arbitrarily)

Long Term: The idea of rules of war could easily be discredited if Britain's seizures are allowed to happen. If you discard rules only a year after agreeing on them, what happens next time?

This is interesting. If England tries to restrict American trade, TR is definitely going to get his back up and possibly send escorts out with merchant ships. There's still going to be a LOT of trade with the UK though, so the Germans will get their hackles up as well. Any attack on any US Merchant ship isn't going to be met with Wilson's "Too Proud To Fight" routine, instead you'd likely see TR's "Big Stick."

If the UK attacks to prevent nitrate or any goods getting to Germany, they're risking an embargo or even war.

If Germany sinks an American ship to try and cut off the UK, they're really risking war too.

Either way the US will be militarizing and the threat of US intervention may force both sides to just ignore blockading the other and the US could stay out of it entirely.

But if it does come in against the CP and Japan is on their side, that gets interesting too.
 
The cruise of the USN's Great White Fleet will be affected. The historical dates of this around the world cruise were from 16 December 1907 to 22 February 1909. Leaving Norfolk, VA, the fleet traveled south and then around South America, arriving in San Francisco, CA on 6 May 1908.
 
Not necessarily. There were other inventors that were working on heavier than aircraft. Gustav Whitehead may have successfully flown before the Wrights, and Sir Hiram Maxim succeeded - to a degree. What is critical is the wing warping that allowed controlled flight. Santo-Dumont is definately a possible contender. A war will open lots of possibilities to many inventors - tho on the other hand it could be a tremendous hinderance at first also.

These people you mentioned did not demonstrate powered flight before 1908. If the war starts in 1908 the planes available will be based on the Wright machine.

To us the difference beteen the Wright plane and the Sopwith Camel may seem small, but in reality it was enormous. A war in 1908 will not see the development of planes to a degree necessary for them to be used as a weapon. Unless you start introducing PODs all over the place. Or unless the war lasts a decade and this seems very unlikely.
 
The cruise of the USN's Great White Fleet will be affected. The historical dates of this around the world cruise were from 16 December 1907 to 22 February 1909. Leaving Norfolk, VA, the fleet traveled south and then around South America, arriving in San Francisco, CA on 6 May 1908.

With no change to their OTL sailing schedule the fleet could still arrive in Australia and then escort the ANZACs to Europe. No need for Japanese ships to do the job? Freeing up Allied fleet units for more patrolling against German raiders? The implications are significant.
 
Well,in 1908 we have a war more similar at 1870 French-Prussian war that at the Great war in our timeline.
But the question is how long is the 1908 world war in this conditions?
four years is possible?
And the tecnological development in first half of XX century is more slow with a world war in 1908?
 
AjNT is a defensive treaty I think, So If Japan entered of its own accord, It probably would not obligate Britain to enter. 2) since both parties had agreed under the treaty to consult fully Britain would no doubt have attempted to dissuade the japanese from such a course. thus if Britain is not predisposed to entering on either side, its likely Japan will not either unless her interests in China and Korea are directly threatened.
I think you mistake me. I'm presuming Japan enters against Russia, with no objection from Britain (or do you see one?), then France (by treaty) DoW in support of Russia, & Britain (by ANJN) DoW against France.
 
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