I dont think the brasil plan can work for the would continent but I think that mexico with the yanks at its north cant aford a century of civil war between liberals and conservatives. They need one of them to win fast and start arming and settling the north, meanwhile I would like to see Gran Colombia doing their own thing with Bolivar. We dont need to be one giant country we just need to keep the territories of the old viceroyalties together and avoid imploding in 20 countries.
The Great Turk returns - Alternate resurging Ottomans (1747-1947)
- Thread starter Koprulu Mustafa Pasha
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Remember that what ended spanish rule in Mexico wasnt popular revolution, but the distaste of the mexican elite of the new liberal government in Spain.
In a loosely united latin amercia ie they all work togather would they still want the Panama canal to exist or not?
I think Spanish never got to push a republic as was too french for them or too much division, a republic would have saved them a lot of headaches of the Carlist war and the hate of Borbouns in XIXth century too.
The Irony as Fernindand VII just payed lipservice to those guys, but again a mexico under FVII or isabella would be even worse defeated against the USA.
Of course would exist, the idea of good going from peru directly to the carribean and europe without the long trip to brazil and viceversa would worth it massively(ditto for colombia for both pacific and carribean coast)
Its hard because the elitescof the big capitals of Hispanoamerica are awful and would rater see the country croumble then sede a minimal amount of power. USA started relativly small and highly connected and expanded from then one. Every latin american country is more connected to some foreing great power than to its neighbors.
So we need to shoot the elites of latin america to save latin america?
Which of vice royalities had the best chance to survive?
Maybe Gran Colombia if Bolivar is successful or maybe Mexico if things go well for them once.
Maybe successful Artigas Protectorate over all of La Plata? We have a cemetary of fascinating projects of union.
Koprulu Mustafa Pasha
Gone Fishin'
I can't stop their expansion. But how, where and how much is yet to be seen...
Koprulu Mustafa Pasha
Gone Fishin'
A developed Latin America as an alliance is something I really like. But I want to learn the possibilities first...
Koprulu Mustafa Pasha
Gone Fishin'
Also, about Latin America right now this in happening in ttml: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inca_plan .
@Koprulu Mustafa Pasha , have fun.
Will consider it, can't promise it...
Dont worry, we are just brainstorming here, not every idea is serious proposal. You are the storyteller, take whatever you found useful and fun and let go of what doesnt work with the story.
Koprulu Mustafa Pasha
Gone Fishin'
I like the idea. Not that I'm changing my TL for your demands or so. But I want to know the possibilities of it. Like, why did it not work out, can it be in combination with what I plan. These kinda things.
I'm so glad to hear you say that. I've been lurking for a couple dozen pages now and seeing how much you let other people influence the direction of the TL has always bothered me a fair bit, ever since the surprise poll on Australia that only some people saw in a spinoff thread that never got linked here. You should commit to writing out your vision for the world.
Koprulu Mustafa Pasha
Gone Fishin'
The only reason I make polls is because I have not decided on some matters. I really considered Ottoman or Spanish ruled Australia but decided my followers can decide on this matter. Not that I wanted something but I did not know about my decision yet. Same with South Africa. I have ideas and I present them. If I really want something I will write it.
There were suggestions that the Crimea should be annexed, Qajars should rule Persia etc... I refused to heed those suggestions as I already something planned for them.
The english wikipedia article on the Inca Plan is surprisingly complete. Whta calls my attention is that in TTL some of your changes have affected some fundamental thing about the plan: in otl one the two candidates of this posible throne, Juan Bautista Tupac Amaru Monjarras (brother of Tupac Amaru II), at the time of the proposal in 1816 was being held in a Spanish prison in Ceuta. Of course, the rest of the family was kill by the Spanish after the failure of Tupac Amaru II revolt, and his brother had been in Ceuta since 1783 in otl, and I don´t remember in wicht year Morocco took it in ttl. Assuming it was after maybe the moroccans just let him go. If it was before he probably is in another prison outside Spanish America. Whats is also interesting about this proposal its that todays sound outlandish but in its time had alot of suport and power behind it: in the Congress of Tucuman this proposal was approved by a simple majority (but failed to win the necessary 2/3 majority thanks to Buenos Aires opposition), it was overwhelmingly supported by the alto peruvian (modern Bolivia) representatives (at the time Alto Peru was part of VR of La Plata thanks to the bourbons but under loyalist control), and also by the representatives of the northern and western provinces of Argentina (all the eastern ones but Buenos Aires were under control of Artigas who had already proclamed independence the year before, and demanded to have the capital be "anywhere but Buenos Aires"), and By San Martín (at the time preparing the liberation of Chile as gobernor of Cuyo) and Martin Miguel de Güemes (Caudillo of Salta and defender of the frontier against the loyalist), so basically the biggest oposition was Buenos Aires but their objection was only centered on the point of moving the capital from Buenos Aires to Cusco. The monarchy was supposed to be strictly constitutional, and the candidate to the crown was really old anyway (Juan Bautista was liberated in 1823 and moved from Ceuta to Buenos Aires, and died in 1827), so the big point was including the indigenous peruvian nobles and peasant communities into the political order and moving the capital far away from Buenos Aires (wicht basically everyone wanted but Buenos Aires).
EDIT: some maps
![argentina1816[1].jpg](/forum/proxy.php?image=http%3A%2F%2F2.bp.blogspot.com%2F_r_8Ve0fmxII%2FSP5Y4s0bvTI%2FAAAAAAAAAEI%2FLJy4ROMIGEE%2Fs1600%2Fargentina1816%5B1%5D.jpg&hash=fbad9cbb078bcda88f95fa3616bd37fd)
Also nice map of Mexico:
And Hispanoamerica:
You could say the white elite of buenos aires ruinned the chance for an unify South Cone..what a waste(at least bolivar fought for unity and abolition till his bitter death)
When they heared the point of moving the capital they started calling the the Inca candidate the "King of the house of the chocolates" and saying that "if crowned they would have to search for him in a tavern". Maybe the Congress of Tucuman could try to get Artigas and his League to their side.
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