The Great Republic Of South America

Could the Gran Republic have survived into the 20th Century and added more states? What would its relations with other countries such as Brazil and Argentina have been like? Could it have remained a democracy?
 
Do you mean Gran Colombia?

I doubt it, just because of the power struggle between Caracas and Bogota. Both cities and their inhabitants think that they are the dominant force in the region, and the competiton between the two was one reason for the split in the first place.

I could see a TL where the Guianas are part of Gran Colombia, and maybe Costa Rica and Nicaragua either join or get annexed after a war of some sort. They wouldn't be getting any of Brazil, and I don't think Lima would join because Lima believed itself to be the most important city in the Americas at that time, and I doubt they'd want to submit themselves to Grancolombian rule.

Perhaps if it were arranged as a federation it might be possible, but I don't think so.

BTW, being half Colombian and half-descended from Vienna WV, this may be one of my favorite threads ever.
 
A Great Republic of SA could have existed but it would have had to get rid of many elites in many of the different regions. Like I commented in another post that is what Paraguays first President Francia did. If he had not done that Paraguay would most certainly not exist today.

And Brazil would not be has large has it is if this Great Republic of SA existed.

Bolivia would probably have not given up much of its territory to Brazil.
In 1867 they gave 300.001 sq' Km to Brazil. Today much of that territory is part of Western Amazonia. Peru also claimed part of this area but once Brazil claimed it nothing really could be done. Then in 1903 Bolivia gave 187.837 sq. Km. more to Brazil. This would become the Brazilian State of Acre. Bolivia also gave up 90000 sq. Km. territory around the Paraguay river which resulted in Bolivia losing control of the Paraguay river to Brazil in return for the right to use Brazilian rivers to get to the Atlantic Ocean.
 
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Bolivia also gave up 90000 sq. Km. territory around the Paraguay river which resulted in Bolivia losing control of the Paraguay river to Brazil in return for the right to use Brazilian rivers to get to the Atlantic Ocean.

The right to use Brazilian rivers to get to the Atlantic was given after Acre was ceded to Brazil.
 
The right to use Brazilian rivers to get to the Atlantic was given after Acre was ceded to Brazil.

Supposedly, the right of navigation was first given in the Treaty of Ayacucho in 1867. See Article 7 and 8 which deal with navigation. I found the treaty in wiki. but those articles are left blank. Cannot find a copy of the actual treaty.

But found this:
In an effort to gain access to the main routes of transoceanic trade, in 1867 Bolivia ceded more than 100,000 square kilometers of territory to Brazil in exchange for riverine access to the Atlantic Ocean.
From another source:
[SIZE=-1]Hoping to improve the economy by opening up the country to foreigners, Melgarejo signed a series of treaties with Chile and Peru for free trade. In an 1867 treaty with Brazil to secure water rights to the Atlantic Ocean, he ceded 102,400 square kilometers of territory, hoping to break Bolivia's isolation. [/SIZE]
And from another different source but it is in Spanish
Al gobierno de Melgarejo corresponde también la celebración del primer tratado de límites y comercio con el Imperio del Brasil. Suscrito en La Paz, el 27 de marzo de 1867, fue aprobado por ley de 17 de septiembre de 1868.
Sus principales estipulaciones, que pueden interesar a la historia económica y financiera de Bolivia, consisten en lo siguiente:
Ambos países se reconocen el libre tránsito y el Brasil permite, como concesión especial, que sean libres para el comercio y navegación mercante de Bolivia, las aguas de los ríos navegables hacia el Atlántico, concediendo Bolivia en reciprocidad la libre navegación de todos sus ríos.
Mientras de un lado se permitía el derecho de pasaje al mar, del otro se abrían todas las puertas sin restricción.
La navegación del alto Madera, a partir de las cachuelas de San Antonio, sólo debía permitirse a las dos naciones contratantes.
El Brasil se comprometía a conceder a Bolivia el uso del camino que llegara a formar desde la primera cachuela del Madera hasta la de San Antonio.
En cambio de estas célebres concesiones, Bolivia cedió sus derechos territoriales en más de 100,000 kilómetros cuadrados.
Quick Translation - Bolivia could use Brazilian rivers that were navegable to the Atlantic Ocean while Brazil could navegate all of Bolivias rivers. Also that only the two nations could navegate part of the Madera river. Plus Bolivia got to use a road that would be constructed. End of Translation.

The right to navigation must have been reaffirmed in the 1903 treaty.

And correction. I wrote that it was 90000 sq. Km. of territory by the Paraguay river that was given to Brazil. It was 49000 sq. Km. of the Bolivian Mato Grosso which consisted of the Itenes River and Paraguay River. Should be noted that in 1928 Bolivia gave another 1730 sq. Km of Bolivian Mato Grosso to Brazil .

Brazil made a smart move. At the time of the Ayacucho treaty Brazil was e at war with Paraguay so they made sure to to get control of the Northern Part of the Paraguay River from Bolivia. With the conquest of Paraguay they would for all purposes control the Paraguay River and be able to exploit better that part of Brazil. Also, controling the Northern part of the river would make it hard for any Andean nation that wanted to supply Paraguay to send supplies.


Another correction the territories taken in 1867 were not 300000 it seems. I got that from one source, maybe they made a conversion mistake. It was over 100000 sq. km.. Not sure if that number includes the 49000 sq. km.on the Paraguay river that was also given up by Bolivia. If the Paraguay River area was 49000 sq. KM that would make the area in the Amazon 51000 sq. km. . But it seems too large to be that.

Not easy finding precise info.. And the treaty was signed in 1867. Any reference to 1868 must be a typo.

As for Bolivia they made a bad deal.
 
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