The Great North American Wank TL

In Post-1900, there's a thread about how, with a POD post-1900 and pre-2000, all three major North American states should be wanked as much as possible.

So here's what I posted, then deleted because it wasn't in the right forum:

Well...

*Needing to recover its national pride from the thrashing it got in 1846-48 at the hands of the United States, Mexico conquers Central America and later benefits from the trans-Isthmian (sp?) Canal.

*The United States expands further across the Pacific, ultimately even snarfing Taiwan and Okinawa. Japan would be too populated to swallow. Perhaps we get an earlier alliance between the Japanese and the United States instead of the Anglo-Japanese alliance.

*Canadian Greenland.

Here's the bare-bones way of making them consequential: Stronger Mexico leads to Texas staying in the Union, which leads to a shorter Civil War and a less-bloodied United States. Unable to intevene in Latin America as easily, the country finds other outlets for its aggression.

Canadian Greenland can be explained away as the British buying it from the Danes to bolster the empire and Canada in the event of a war with the United States.
 
I am not an expert on this particular time period in Mexico, but would not the Mexican Army kind of be in shambles, making it hardto go forth and conquer? That could be totaly wrong.
 
What would be the fate of Cuba and the Carribean?

How about a joint US and Mexico split of Cuba. US gets easern half plus Puerto Rico and Mexico gets Western half. Due to a US & Mexico vs. Spain in a war.

How about some of the British west Indies going to Canada, say perhaps the Bahamas and Bermuda.

The 49th state in the Union is American West Indies which is made up of the eastern half of Cuba, Virgin Islands, and Puerto Rico. Admitted 1910. Note: that with shorter civil war, there is no West Virginia.

The 50th state of the Union is Pacifica, made up of Hawaii, Guam, Samoa, Okinawa, and Taiwan.
 
I am not an expert on this particular time period in Mexico, but would not the Mexican Army kind of be in shambles, making it hardto go forth and conquer? That could be totaly wrong.

Maybe not immediately after 1848, but after they've had time to recover.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_of_Reform

If this can be avoided (perhaps by the Liberals being less radical and thus not PO'ing devout Catholics) and Mexico can solidify earlier, a campaign of conquest against the smaller states to their south might be a bone to throw to the more militaristic, Conservative elements of Mexico or a reprisal for aid to the Conservatives by the southern states (if indeed they did so).
 
That isn't much of a wank. Now, if the entirety of the Oregon, as well as Alaska and the British West Indies, came under our rule, then we would be getting into wank territory.

The Alaska purchase might be butterflied away in TTL, so that might actually be doable.

Of course, being American, I rather like the idea of an American Alaska on top of everything else.
 
I figure Mexico getting Guatemala at some point is not too improbable, maybe just maybe Belize as well given the right situation with the UK
 
Mexicowank: A wanked U.S.A not dominating Mexico.

It's kind of hard to have a Mexicowank when you're trying to do a Canada/USA wank at the same time. In fact you can't really have a multiple powerwank because eventually they will turn on each other
 
Mexicowank: A wanked U.S.A not dominating Mexico.

If Mexico is bigger and stronger in TTL and might even have a European ally (France, to build the canal through occupied Nicaragua), the U.S. might not want to mess with it.

And intriguing in China and Japan might be more interesting anyway...
 
I figure Mexico getting Guatemala at some point is not too improbable, maybe just maybe Belize as well given the right situation with the UK

What about Nicaragua? Part of the scenario involves an Isthmian Canal and in OTL, the first attempt was made there.

Looking at a map, could a canal be built thorugh Honduras? Easier for an imperialist embittered Mexico to grab that one.

EDIT: Too mountainous.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honduras#Geography
 
Maybe instead of outright conquest and annexation, Mexico beats the smaller Central American states into vassalage. All the benefits of political control and none of the costs. They might need to share the revenues of the Canal a bit, but I imagine the hegemon will get most of it.
 
What about Nicaragua? Part of the scenario involves an Isthmian Canal and in OTL, the first attempt was made there.
No real Causus Belli and too far away, differing cultures etc.

It is not a wank if there is too much overstretch and just Guatemala will give Mexico enough grief
 
why would canada go to war with anyone, as their still propterty of the british empire at the time?....
plus...it was small even then....sparesly populated except around the alkes, had little resource to great a large enough army without imperial help, and they were (and still are really) very loayl to the crown, and theres no way theyd have allied with the us, etc....how can you wank them at that point?
 
While Spain still controls its territories, the US and France could make Mexico an offer of help securing Spain's Latin American territory as an independent nation to include OTL south America, in exchange for access to the ocean very early on. Mexico owns all of South America upon independence (or in a sense would be one united nation, per the agreement so as to serve as a counterbalance to potential Spanish re-conquest). Mexico could give the US and France in the 1800's northern lands in exchange for help with independence and defense from Spain. France would later sell their share to the US anyway in Louisiana Purchase. Canada could see its sizable neighbors with huge populations as a military threat and have an arms race to protect itself, conquering Greenland (although I also like the earlier agreement noted as between dutch and British). The next big leap could be Westward during World War II before Russia changes sides or makes peace and agreements with the allies, but that's for another timeline.
 
While Spain still controls its territories, the US and France could make Mexico an offer of help securing Spain's Latin American territory as an independent nation to include OTL south America, in exchange for access to the ocean very early on. Mexico owns all of South America upon independence (or in a sense would be one united nation, per the agreement so as to serve as a counterbalance to potential Spanish re-conquest). Mexico could give the US and France in the 1800's northern lands in exchange for help with independence and defense from Spain. France would later sell their share to the US anyway in Louisiana Purchase. Canada could see its sizable neighbors with huge populations as a military threat and have an arms race to protect itself, conquering Greenland (although I also like the earlier agreement noted as between dutch and British). The next big leap could be Westward during World War II before Russia changes sides or makes peace and agreements with the allies, but that's for another timeline.

I think a combined independent Spanish America would be too big to govern effectively as one state, with the possible exception of the Spanish royal family pulling a Brazil and setting a Spanish Empire in exile in Mexico City during the Napoleonic Wars. That'd still have the legitimacy factor going and the various local elites could still do their own thing, just paying fealty to Mexico City instead of Madrid.

That would butterfly away the Louisiana Purchase (and thus the U.S.-wanking part), unless the exiled Spanish Court is desperately in need of cash and makes a similar sale.

Hmm...I'm now reminded of "The United States of the Americas and Oceania." I read the beginning part of that TL where the U.S. gets California in the very early 19th Century, but I didn't finish it.
 
If we want to keep the scenario roughly similar to OTL history, maybe the United States jumps on the back of the Spanish-Empire-In-Exile at the same time the rest of Spanish America gets itchy, snarfing OTL's Mexican Cession while the rest of Spanish America below, say, Panama breaks away in a similar fashion to OTL.

The rump of New Spain, whose European elite might be going the way of the British rulers in India in "The Peshawar Lancers" and we still get "Mexico," only much, much bigger and without overstretch issues for keeping the Isthmian Canal route.

Such an entity would still be more powerful than OTL Mexico and that could keep Texas in the Union and provide an antidote to the more insane schemes to expand slavery southward, limiting the appeal to secession. We might still get an American Civil War, but the Confederacy will be weaker.

The problem is, what would happen if Napoleon is defeated per OTL? The exiled Spanish royal family would try to return to Spain and resume the pre-war order of things and the so-called "Holy Alliance" will make sure they can. Continued Napoleonic dominance in Europe will ensure the royal family cannot return to Spain, but it would produce a LOT of butterflies.

Perhaps some younger son more attached to Mexico than Spain makes his own bid for power in the colonies like the son of the Portuguese king did?
 
Here's a POD that could get us the "Spanish Empire In Exile."

Ferninand VII of Spain strikes me as a very weak, cowardly, nasty person, so him bugging out of Spain a la the Portuguese Court to continue the fight against Napoleon from abroad strikes me as very difficult.

However, he did have a brother...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infante_Carlos_of_Spain,_Count_of_Molina

The brother refused to acknowledge Joseph Bonaparte as the King of Spain and spent most of the war a prisoner of the French. However, he was really into divine right of kings and never challenged his brother's actions while he was alive.

So perhaps he's a good candidate to flee to New Spain in TTL? He could justify this to himself on the grounds that his brother and father are being held hostage and whatever orders they give him are under duress.

If Ferdinand VII is restored to the throne, though, Carlos is probably going to turn the colonies back over to him on legal/moral grounds. Maybe he marries while in exile and dies, leaving a son to be raised by the local elite? He was really young, so any child he fathers would not be an adult for some time.

Of course, maybe after Ferdinand VII's restoration he leaves Carlos in charge of the colonies as a reward for his services during the war and it's Carlos's Mexican-born son who leads a revolt of Spanish America against the regime? Perhaps due to Carlos governing Spanish America during the war, the colonies take his side during the Carlist controversy that broke out after Ferdinand VII's death. Bonus points if Carlos is murdered and it's his son leading the colonial revolt a la Robb Stark in ASOIAF.

And there's always the option of a surviving Napoleonic regime prolonging Carlos's exile. That'd have butterflies re: the War of 1812 though, which would in turn affect the United States.
 
Last edited:
Top