The Grand Eagle of Europe: Western Roman Survival

The Death of Charlemagne and Frankish Civil War

The most popular and successful king of the Franks: Charlemagne. He brought the Frankish Kingdom into the Classical Era through border expansions and trade systems. He connected the Franks to the WRE and beyond, giving Europe a sense of stability. But it was his son, Louis, who had the big shoes to fill once Charlemagne died in 814. He would need to keep the mighty Charlemagne Empire intact to keep Europe intact, and the entire continent knew this.

Louis I (The Pious) (778 to 830)
, acquired the Frankish throne in the middle of numerous military struggles. The Viking invasions were well-defended against, so they were no longer a problem. The Norse had other, more profitable plans, but we'll get to that later. Louis decided the empire was not large enough, so he continued his own invasions into Iberia. Iberia was home to very little. The Suevics were too scattered to be considered a kingdom and any Iberian territory owned by the WRE or the Franks was uninhabited. Nonetheless, Louis wanted more of it.

He spent about 4 years attacking the tribes of Iberia before he discovered troubling news that his wife had passed. He returned home distraught. But officials from the WRE warned Louis that if he did not remarry, he would leave himself vulnerable. Louis abided by the wise empire and did so. He married to Judith of Bavaria who bore Louis his fourth heir, Charles. This angered Louis' elder sons, specifically Lothair, as the new child changed the partition of the Frankish Kingdom. They feared that Charles would receive too much of their father's territory. In anger and retaliation, Lothair accused Judith of adultery. This spawned a chain reaction which began a civil war in 827.

This war, within weeks, disrupted trade and commerce for all of Europe. In the WRE, nephew to Galeo III and new emperor, Decimus Maro I (782 to 844) would not stand for such disasters. Unlike previous emperors, Maro was not a silent isolationist. The Roman way had been for centuries to stay out of foreign conflicts unless it directly hurt the security of the WRE. Maro decided that a dangerous civil war in another country would hurt trade and stability, so he sent his highest officials to contact Louis.

Louis was off in Brittany fighting against those against Frankish ownership when he got the memo. He had no idea of any civil war and immediately returned to Paris. It was discovered that his son, Lothair was the one stirring up rebellion in Frankish lands. The officials from the WRE advised Louis to immediately capture his son and execute him to treason. They also warned to keep any other sons that could start revolts in line. Louis decided that he could not have his own son killed, and instead, have him exiled.

The WRE watched like a father-figure as Louis sent his armies to take down Lothair. When the war started, Lothair had recruited his younger brothers, Louis (the German) and Pepin to join the rebellion. But now, Louis I promised a larger share of his inheritance to any sons who would rejoin the loyalist cause. Louis the German and Pepin switched sides swiftly after hearing this offer. With little help, Lothair was doomed to failure. With no allies, his army was outnumbered and defeated within the year.

After the civil war came to an end, Maro I called for a meeting between Louis I and his sons. In the meeting, Lothair apologized for the uprisings half-halfheartedly and expressed his frustration with the birth of Charles, which broke up previous plans for partition. Louis told Lothair and his brothers that the conception of Charles was not fully expected, and once Judith's pregnancy became obvious, she told him she would keep the baby. Louis shared the same frustration with his sons, but as he explained, it is hard to express oneself when king.

Understanding their father's situation, the sons agreed to no further revolts if a new treaty was drawn up, laying out clear borders for a revised partition. The treaty was created and once the four agreed to it, the meeting ended. All of the brothers were pardoned and no charges were made. This Treaty of Verdun would create four, new governed states in Europe following the death of Louis I. (Pepin died before his father did, so the treaty was revised to create three states instead)

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Interesting will we see a united Germany long before the 1800's?

After Louis the German dies, he will need a very strong heir to keep all of the German states unified. And even if they stay unified, their title will not be Germany, but East Francia. We'll see if that happens, but it's very unlikely.
 
Through the Year 1000

Europe was still in a state of shock following the division of the Frankish Kingdom. There now existed three different, Frankish states: Kingdom of the West Franks, the Middle Frankish Kingdom, and Kingdom of the East Franks.

The Kingdom of the West Franks, otherwise known as 'West Francia', was operated by young Charles the Bald. It's capital was Paris, a thriving inland trading center. As all of Francia was, West Francis was very religious. Roman Catholicism influenced the creation of spectacular churches and monasteries across the country. The Carolingians controlled the Kingdom, defending it against the Viking invasions for centuries. There were some disputes with Brittany and the Anglo-Saxons, but neither resulted in a large number of casualties. The country was relatively stable, and in 987, the name was changed to 'France' after the new ruling dynasty, the Capetians.

The Middle Frankish Kingdom, or the Central Kingdom, was ruled by Lothair I. It was a stagnant kingdom until 870, when the kingdom was divided by West and East Francia in the Treaty of Meerssen.

East Francia, initially ruled by Louis the German, united German states in a broken, but self-confident kingdom. It remained a stern player in Europe's minor Early-Medieval wars for decades. However, in the late 800s, it suffered through the classic 'Weak leadership' syndrome until the kingdom finally collapsed in the 10th century. To try and unite the German states once again, a new (false) kingdom was constructed. Ruled by a new dynasty, headed by Otto I, the Holy German Confederation controlled many German states in Central Europe in a loose government. As put most excellently by philosopher Voltaire in the 18th century, "The Holy German Confederation, the title itself is untrue. It is certainly not holy, and can barely be called a confederation."

Meanwhile, the Celtic Kingdom had undergone numerous changes. It's religious laws grew more relaxed, allowing for Judaism and Paganism, but restricting against any Islamic worship. Fighting for years against the Anglo-Saxons with WRE support, the Celts finally gave up London, but remained on the British island. They instead turned East and conquered the Sorbs and Pomeranians. In addition to this, they now called their country Celtica.

The Anglo-Saxons had changed completely since the days of Charlemagne. The Vikings had blended with the culture in Britain and led to the creation of new nations: the Kingdom of Wessex, The Kingdom of York, and the Kingdom of Scots.

The Norse, Swedes, and the Danes were now referred to as Norway, Sweden, and Denmark respectively. The Viking raids had finally settled down in Europe. (Not in North America, though...)

Iberia was ruled partly by France, the WRE, and the Kingdom of Leon.

The Bulgar Khanate finally collapsed with a group invasion of the WRE and Byzantine Empires. The Avars managed to do it on their own.

And now, the Roman Empires...

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The Western Roman Empire was so far ahead of the pack, they were leading Europe into the future. They remained small territorial-wise, but expanded economically and influentially. The Western Romans had the best-thriving economy in Europe through it's road systems and ship travels. They traded from the Baltic to the Atlantic and everything in between. They experienced zero invasions from 800 to 1000, thanks to the halt of Muslim expansion.

Rome, Florentia, and Aquileia were the giant trading centers of Europe and Asia. They worked with the Byzantines to create a road system into Persia, India, and China. The textile industry was dominated by the Western Romans through the Viking Age. Muslim traders even moved to the WRE to open markets and experience the religious toleration.

The WRE sailed up and down the Western African Coast, setting up trading posts along the way. The Western Romans had such an economic golden age that were able to gather the resources available to begin an Age of Exploration. All explorations were government funded in hope of discovering an energy source in power the numerous factories set up throughout the country.

The Roman Factories now held a great deal in relation to the economy. Agriculture was still very important, of course, but it was nowhere near as essential to the Romans as the new factories were. Private industries were operated, controlling a few factories at a time, which then distributed goods to the citizens of the empire at local and distant markets. Yes, a very early form of Capitalism was in use in the Roman economy. With so much wealth being generated through factories that in 885, emperor of the WRE, Decimus Tallas I, abolished slavery once and for all within WRE borders. It was just no longer necessary.

The Byzantine Empire was also quite a bit ahead of the pack. They had not abolished slavery, but still had a strong economy with grain and wine exports dominating the industry. Once the Bulgars finally fell, the Byzantines conquered their land and the Black Sea, and focused on defending from the Caliphates. That, and making peace with the rebellious Serbs.

Not to mention, another country was brewing a bit farther East: Kievan Rus. This one will be examined in more detail later ;)

The giants grew larger and more successful while others were split apart and collapsed. By 1000, the great powers of Europe were the WRE, the Byzantine Empire, France, Celtica, and the Holy German Confederacy. But as we've seen so far, nothing gold can stay.
 
Intersting, so is Rome goin to leadthe industrial revolution about 600 yrs earlier:eek:. That would be very ineresting. Why not have the Viking kingdom of Scandanavia stay intact? With the opposition Europe is offering wouldn't they stay together? Also, are the Chinese now an Empire, that has fought off the Mongols?:rolleyes: That would be pretty cool if the Chinese Empire stayed together, or split into several powerful smaller states...
 
Intersting, so is Rome goin to leadthe industrial revolution about 600 yrs earlier:eek:. That would be very ineresting. Why not have the Viking kingdom of Scandanavia stay intact? With the opposition Europe is offering wouldn't they stay together? Also, are the Chinese now an Empire, that has fought off the Mongols?:rolleyes: That would be pretty cool if the Chinese Empire stayed together, or split into several powerful smaller states...

It sure seems to be getting there, huh?

There's no reason for the Vikings to stay intact in Scandinavia. They're still around somewhat, but you can only invade and pillage so many empty cities before you run out of resources. Some of them are exploring Greenland and pieces of Canada, but they couldn't form any sort of central government to stay together. The reason the Celts stayed together is because they created a sturdy government with Roman support. The Vikings just couldn't do that.

The Chinese are now an empire, yup. The Mongols aren't a huge problem for them yet, but they're getting there. We'll see how China turns out a bit later. :)
 
Just wondering why has the WRE is surpassing the Byzantine empire?

And what century is the technological process as oppose to OTL?

Simple: The WRE is not in a state of constant war. The Byzantines are constantly bashing heads with the Middle-East Caliphates over territory and Mediterranean cities. War eats up resources faster than anything else. Because the WRE does not have to worry about invasions, they have this time of peace that's being used for research and development.

The WRE has some aspects of 1700s tech and knowledge, the Byzantines are around the 1300s technologically, other countries are still in the 1000s.
 
With Rome becoming such an economic power house I think that the Romans should be pretty advanced in the medicinal field and or starting to invest heavily in their. With Rome becoming so powerful we might see them expand into africa (to defeat those maruaders) and or try to colonise/explore other places (North america ex.)
 
With Rome becoming such an economic power house I think that the Romans should be pretty advanced in the medicinal field and or starting to invest heavily in their. With Rome becoming so powerful we might see them expand into africa (to defeat those maruaders) and or try to colonise/explore other places (North america ex.)

They've found cures for easy-to-cure bacteria and diseases so far (such as the Bubonic Plague) and are on their way to discovering some medical instruments which we take for granted.

They've already been expanding into Africa :)
Perhaps, but most still consider the world to be flat...
 
Feudalism and Crusades

The French had not had a great and confident king for centuries. In that time, landowners had taken advantage of the decentralized government. They offered land to knights and noblemen in return for allegiance and military service. Because there was no king to end this practice, this Feudalism expanded through France, Leon, and many parts of the Holy German Confederacy.

By the 1000s, Feudalism had streched across the North Sea into Wessex, York, Norway, Denmark, and Sweden. But still, it was strongest in France. The landowners, known as lords, fought each other for land custody. The vassals of the land had no choice but to fight for their lords. It was a signed deal. Land for service.

France was hardly a country by 1100, and thus, was at risk of being conquered by superior powers. York and Wessex had allied to form the new country of England. Feudalism was waning in this country. England was controlled by a centralized government, and therefore, could overpower French possessions.

(The Roman alliance treaty with the Franks had not been renewed, so when France was formed, it had virtually no allies.)

Henry II of England threatened war with the French, but always seemed busy fighting the Celts and Irish. When these extensive wars began to come to an end, a French king arose who had actual power. That king, Philip Augustus, recovered much of the French land that had been taken by the Germans. Augustus fortified Paris and Orleans from the Celts and defended from numerous German invasions. However, much territory had already been lost.

In the time of Feudalism, the French had lost most of it's territory. Iberia was almost completely conquered by Leon and new states, Castile and Portugal. Land surrounding Paris was conquered by Celtica in a string of short-lived wars. Brittany was independent, as was Normandy.

Augustus went on tours around Brittany and Normany attempting to recruit supporters of France, but often it was useless. Very little in Northern Europe cared about Nationalism and fighting for their countries. They just wanted to survive. The poor could not afford cures for Bubonic Disease, unlike those in the Western Roman and Byzantine Empires. Many died out from such simple means.

The more South you went in France, the more civilized and healthy people seemed. They were more educated, spoke with Latin accents, and had cures for bacterial infections. Toulouse had grown as the most populous city in France. Some spoke variations of French while some spoke Latin. The city was not very religious (Was 40% Christian, 20% Pagan, 40% Other or Non-Religious), and was not identifiable to other French cities. When France suffered through Feudalism, Toulouse declared independence and became it's own country. It connected with the WRE via roads, and became a trading center once those roads reached the Mediterranean.

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Meanwhile, Germany was struggling with keeping it's country together. The Confederation was supposed to be ruled by a single emperor, but the states within it were ruled by separate German Princes. Nonetheless, the HGC was very influential in Europe, expanding it's culture Eastward into Bohemian territory and Baltic states. The people of HGC were largely Roman Catholic, but

Eastern Europe was dominated by the Byzantines through the 12th century, but now more countries had formed. Many inspired by the HGC, loose states allied together to create countries. These countries include Bohemia, Hungary, and Poland.

In the Byzantine Empire, the Serbs were not conquered at all, but instead, a treaty was created. The treaty allowed for the Serbs to create a sub-faction within the Byzantine Empire, allowing them a limited self-government subservient to Byzantine emperors. This system can be compared to OTL US state rule compared to federal rule. The state could draw its own ruled, but when it comes down to it, the country's federal leader has the most power.

As for the Crusades, they had been in progress for years. The Byzantines had not stopped fighting with the Caliphates and Sultanates over Syria and Palestine. there was no "Save the Holy Land!" spirit within Orthodox churches since many believed Jerusalem and Tyre never left the empire.

North Egypt did not budge from Byzantine control. Similarly, Northern Africa as a whole preferred Roman control than Muslim control. Christianity was not widespread, but neither was Islam. The Africans were mostly left alone. Eastern Africa was controlled entirely by the mighty Axum Kingdom. Some Axumites identified with early Christianity, but again, many enjoyed their ceremonial cultures and religions. The rest of Africa was left alone save small WRE settlements along the coasts.

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Kievan Rus, a growing country in Eastern Europe, had broken down into multiple self-governed principalities once the tradition of partitioning for one's sons continued too far. Unification seemed unlikely, but it will be forced shortly.

Farther East, China was encountering quite a few problems of their own. The Song Dynasty ruled China since 907, but invasions from the North were becoming a problem. At first, it was a few minor attacks from the Jurchen peoples, but then the Mongols. The Jurchen stopped, but the Mongols kept going and going. It was clear that they would pose the biggest threat in the next century...

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The WRE still expanded internally, but now slightly externally. The short-lived Pulvillus line had controlled the WRE from ~1000 to 1100. They held onto isolationist beliefs and as predicted, the economy suffered...but not too dramatically. Trade had slowed during those centuries, but only outside the empire. Rome and Florentia still attracted those of every culture and background to trade regardless. Only in Rome could you purchase Celtic cattle and Indian spices in one day.

Around 1050, the people of the empire grew tiresome of isolationism and revolted. The emperor, Pulvillus III (1032 to 1081), may have been kept away from the public, but he was not an idiot. He stepped down immediately and called for a descendant of Tallas to take the throne. (After Tallas died, his son was seen as unfit for the throne because of his sexual preference, so the Pulvillus', relatives to the Tallas', took over.)

Aulus Tallas II (1042 to 1101) was crowned emperor on the morning of April 5th, 1053, and as was part of the ceremony, he was handed the Ancient Roman golden staff and The Sacred Diary (yes, that same one). Tallas II was a progressive leader. He funded projects for trading ships, exploration units, factory checks, and architectural advancements. Better relations with Castile and the HGC were made, ensuring no invasions and greater trade. He also went on a 2-year trip to some of Europe's (safe) major cities including Toulouse, Cagilari, Carthage, Athens, and Constantinople, spreading the word of Roman advances and trade.

But right when it was thought that the WRE couldn't be any more successful, they became more successful. One of the largest naval organizations were the "Valde Florentine Rimor Vexillum" or the 'Great Florentine Explorers Company', obviously hailing from Florentia. A group of eager cartographers and adventurers led by nobleman, Marcus Malleolus, applied for a government grant which would allow them to explore for shorter trade routes.

They had attempted to apply for years when Puvillus III was emperor, and every time, they failed. But when the Tallas line was recovered, they tried again, and this time, they was accepted. They explained their desire to shorten trade routes into China and India by sailing Westward into the Atlantic, eventually meeting waterways into Chinese cities. The gold they received were invested into intricate ships and a years worth of food.

In 1062, they set sail from Msarsellie. They headed West through the Iberian Pass into the Atlantic where many had believed was in fact, the edge of the world. Some, mostly Romans, believed that the world actually rounded off and the Atlantic would lead directly into China. Months passed and eventually, Marcus spotted a sliver of land. The crew looked over the towering ships and witnessed history unfold.

Little did they know, they had arrived in North America.
OTL's Providence, to be exact.
 
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Two Different Europes
War versus Peace

Differences between Western and Eastern Europe had been evident since the Great Roman Recession, but as the 12th Century came to a close, differences grew even more severe.

Western Europe, composed of the WRE, Portugal, France, Toulouse, Celtica, and the HGC, were mostly war-free. Of course, France had its conflicts with Toulouse and Normany, but even it was experiencing the beginning of a rise in Roman thinking. The king was preparing to outlaw feudalism and introduce a "...new process of creating villages and factories as seen in the Western Roman Empire." Toulouse had its own king and its own set of laws by the 1200s. Normandy was supported by the English. Brittany was on its own with its problems.

Rounds of exploration units were sent to Tallasia (OTL America) to understand the landscape, island structures, and the native tribes. The tribes were initially called 'Indians' as the explorers thought they had found a sea-trade route, but within months, the language of the Delaware tribe was translated into Latin. The Delaware tribal leaders explained with timidity the situation in Tallasia. Early explorers, who were led by Marcus Malleolus, offered the quick solution of executing all the natives and stealing their resources. But Malleolus was not only an explorer captain, but a high scholar. He proclaimed that the natives must be negotiated with in order to give the Romans a high reputation, thus giving them more resources and goods in the long run.

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The Delaware told the Romans that there were numerous tribes in their area alone. From that, the Romans deduced that if Tallasia was as large as Europe, there would be almost a hundred on the new continent. Trades were made, mostly maps and supplies for technology. Of course, disease harmed these natives, killing many of them.

At home, the WRE did not expand through Africa as planned. Most of the surplus economy was spent on exploration and settling towns in Tallasia. The first town was named after the famous emperor: Julius Caesar. It was named Caesare. The second was named after another famous emperor: Constanus. It was named Constantinus. Caesare is OTL's Providence and Constantinus is OTL's New York City.

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But Eastern Europe was nowhere near as fortunate. It was thought to be a sign of relief when invading Muslims retreated, but this was only a sign of worse things to come. The Mongols approached.

Led by Ghengis Khan, the Mongols ravaged Asia. They conquered parts of China, all of Tibet, and basically all of Asia save India. The Seljuks were also destroyed in a matter of weeks. Clearly, Europe was going to have a handful here.

The Russian Principalities were ravaged and conquered. Kiev was burned down to the ground. The Mongols attacked Poland, burned Krakow, attacked Hungary at Mohi, and then finally reached the Byzantines.

Byzantine Emperor, Regulus I, recruited the Serbian army and militia into the Byzantine National Army. Regulus placed his army at Pliska. A very risky decision, but that was the Byzantine way. The Mongols planned to invade the Byzantine Empire along the Black Sea coast, thereby rushing through Constantinople and adding it to the list of ravaged cities. But unknown to them, Pliska was on that exact coast.

The Mongols arrived with an army of half a million soldiers, expecting to swoop into Pliska and demolish it. They had their composite bows at the ready when they approached the city. They were surprised when 600,000 Byzantine soldiers armed with long and short ranged weapons were waiting for them on the Pliska border. The battle lasted a week and ended in Mongol defeat. The Mongols were fierce, but the Byzantines had a home worth fighting for. Ghengis Knan was defeated at the Battle of Pliska in 1242 and retreated back to Kiev to regroup.

Through the 1200s, the Byzantines would have to fend off the Mongols in Anatolia, but every invasion, military excellence prevailed.

Ghengis Khan defeated Asia but could not take all of Europe. They abandoned Hungary and Poland but remained in Kiev.
 
Interesting updates, the discovery of Tallasia, the foundation of a Roman settlement in OTL New York ( it may be a clichè, but i love so much :D), Byzantines against Mongols etc...

But i want to know how it is the technological ratio: it was as nearly 1200 OTL or there was a spread of new discoveries aside from the previously citated in medicine?

Also, i'm personally asking if in a situation of surviving WRE could be feudalization in parts of Europe ( for example, why the Carolingian Empire did not adopt instead political assets from the Empire considering the strong Roman influence? Viceversa, it could be possible WRE will realistically adopting feudalization in its own lands?)

Lastly, i guess it needed a map which looked also to all of North Africa and Holy land. ;)
 
Well it would have been col to see a modern Viking nation, as well as government and structure evolve. A great leader could have arisen, installed something like Spartan type govn't and with rigid structure and said it came to him/her(Viking Warrior QUEEN:D) as a "flash of insight" just like when Odin discovered the Runes...
 
Interesting updates, the discovery of Tallasia, the foundation of a Roman settlement in OTL New York ( it may be a clichè, but i love so much :D), Byzantines against Mongols etc...

But i want to know how it is the technological ratio: it was as nearly 1200 OTL or there was a spread of new discoveries aside from the previously citated in medicine?

Also, i'm personally asking if in a situation of surviving WRE could be feudalization in parts of Europe ( for example, why the Carolingian Empire did not adopt instead political assets from the Empire considering the strong Roman influence? Viceversa, it could be possible WRE will realistically adopting feudalization in its own lands?)

Lastly, i guess it needed a map which looked also to all of North Africa and Holy land. ;)

It makes though, right? NYC is an excellent port city with access to alternate waterways while remaining safely above ground.

Like I posted earlier, medicinal technology within the WRE is up to near-1700s OTL. Industrial technology is progressing, but besides the fundamentals, there is not much different from 16/1700s OTL levels. Shipping technology is at that same level. Philosophies are reaching OTL 1800s levels. It would have been further than that, but Christianity discourages against such behaviors. Government structure is becoming an issue as the emperors begin to lose touch with the people.

Think of Southern France as a less-advanced WRE. The technology is advancing in Western Europe as well, but they don't have Roman or Florentine thinkers to boost the thought process.


The Byzantines are gaining head with their war tech. Armed charriots, blade-sharp swords and axes, chainmail, etc..

The Franks, in some aspects, tried the Roman way of a centralized, strong empire, but there's little to unite Northern Europe. Feudalism is what happened after the centralized government failed. Once Charlemagne died, so did any hope of successful centralized government. The WRE's government has not yet broken down, so cities still thrive and people have no need to buy land from lords. They can just buy houses from the government or various private industries.

Sure! I can make a larger map next time to show Eurasia and North Africa.
 
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